What Playable Race do you want next?

[Triceron]

I thought reskinned models were less work, no? Perhaps they never planned Wildhammers to be their own race.

They had a choice to make of a Dwarf subrace to fill the status quo, otherwise they probably wouldn't have had planned making either of the choices playable at all. It was all done to service the feature of offering '8+ new playable races!' in a single expansion.

"It's gonna cost us a raid tier" never applied to races until the Dracthyr. What happened?

The cost was releasing Evokers unfinished to make Dragonflight's deadline achievable. The class that didn't even get their 3rd spec until mid expansion.

And just saying, 10.2 might actually be the final raid of the expansion while the story is seemingly inconclusive. It literally ends without dealing with the big bad of the expansion.

[username993720]

They had a choice to make of a Dwarf subrace to fill the status quo, otherwise they probably wouldn't have had planned making either of the choices playable at all. It was all done to service the feature of offering '8+ new playable races!' in a single expansion.

What other fiery race would have been instead if we didn't get Dark Irons?

The cost was releasing Evokers unfinished to make Dragonflight's deadline achievable. The class that didn't even get their 3rd spec until mid expansion.

I wonder how they managed Death Knights and Monks...

And just saying, 10.2 might actually be the final raid of the expansion while the story is seemingly inconclusive. It literally ends without dealing with the big bad of the expansion.

That seems to be the case every other expansion since WoD. They completely missed their chance with Galakrond and Chromatus. What a disappointment..

[Triceron]

What other fiery race would have been instead if we didn't get Dark Irons?

Would it even have to be fiery?

Like did the Alliance have a niche that implied they needed a Void race too? Or a niche that implied Kul Tirans are minstrously huge when characters like Jaina and Daelin Proudmoore have been shown to be normal sized Humans since WC3? I don't think so.

I think Blizzard gave them that just for the sake of making the subraces feel more different.

I wonder how they managed Death Knights and Monks...

They didn't.

DK's had to be completely changed after release since they couldn't get the 3 DPS/3Tank specs working. They had to completely change and remove resurrecting allies into Ghouls too. DKs were very experimental amd rough around the edges, not enough time to cook.

Monks had to be completely gutted with their original 'No Auto attack' design where they only had active attacks in melee and Blizzard couldn't get it to work ata all and cut the entire feature to make them more homogenized. Monk also missed abilities like Earth Storm and Fire that had to be patched in after release.

That seems to be the case every other expansion since WoD. They completely missed their chance with Galakrond and Chromatus. What a disappointment..

Yep, because everything comes at a cost.

And not just WoD. This has literally been happening since Vanilla. Dragon Isles, Tirisfal and Karazhan were all planned as Vanilla content. Karazhan especially was meant to be a Vanilla raid, but development pushed it into TBC and that's why it felt so out of place and disconnected to the Outland and TBC storyline.

Wrath planned for an entire Azjol Nerub zone. Cata is infamous for having massive cuts due to resources spent revamping the world, and their 'x.1' major content patch skipped a raid and instead gave us revamped Zul Aman and Zul Gurub as dungeon content, they cut the Abyssal Maw and War of the Ancients raids, and the final raid only had 8 bosses, many which didn't even have unique models. Cataclysm dropped the ball hard.

[username993720]

Would it even have to be fiery?

Yes, because they fill a certain niche.

Like did the Alliance have a niche that implied they needed a Void race too?

No. They wanted to introduce dark elves. But the "high elves" were already on the Horde. So, they put them in the Alliance.

Or a niche that implied Kul Tirans are minstrously huge when characters like Jaina and Daelin Proudmoore have been shown to be normal sized Humans since WC3? I don't think so.

They obviously needed another body type to distinguish them from other humans.

I think Blizzard gave them that just for the sake of making the subraces feel more different.

Basically, so they wouldn't overlap with existing races.

They didn't.

DK's had to be completely changed after release since they couldn't get the 3 DPS/3Tank specs working. They had to completely change and remove resurrecting allies into Ghouls too. DKs were very experimental amd rough around the edges, not enough time to cook.

Monks had to be completely gutted with their original 'No Auto attack' design where they only had active attacks in melee and Blizzard couldn't get it to work ata all and cut the entire feature to make them more homogenized. Monk also missed abilities like Earth Storm and Fire that had to be patched in after release.

And Evokers were delivered perfectly?

Yep, because everything comes at a cost.

And not just WoD. This has literally been happening since Vanilla. Dragon Isles, Tirisfal and Karazhan were all planned as Vanilla content. Karazhan especially was meant to be a Vanilla raid, but development pushed it into TBC and that's why it felt so out of place and disconnected to the Outland and TBC storyline.

I meant the 2 patches cycle. Other expansions had 3-4 patches.

Wrath planned for an entire Azjol Nerub zone. Cata is infamous for having massive cuts due to resources spent revamping the world, and their 'x.1' major content patch skipped a raid and instead gave us revamped Zul Aman and Zul Gurub as dungeon content, they cut the Abyssal Maw and War of the Ancients raids, and the final raid only had 8 bosses, many which didn't even have unique models. Cataclysm dropped the ball hard.

Yes, things get cut. But, they could have used existing villains instead of introducing those cartoon network visage forms dragons.

[Triceron]

Yes, because they fill a certain niche.

The same way Blood Elves filled a niche in the Horde, amirite? (Yes, we both prefer them not being in the Horde, and that is the point of this snarky remark)

And Evokers were delivered perfectly?

Who said anything was perfect? Do you really think I ever made that point? If so, you're being intentionally delusional as fuck.

Yes, things get cut. But, they could have used existing villains instead of introducing those cartoon network visage forms dragons.

What difference would that make?

[Mace]

And just saying, 10.2 might actually be the final raid of the expansion while the story is seemingly inconclusive. It literally ends without dealing with the big bad of the expansion.

That seems to be the case every other expansion since WoD. They completely missed their chance with Galakrond and Chromatus. What a disappointment..

Nah,I suspect they're just changing tact now and no longer finishing off expansions by completely removing the bigger threat.

They have to start building new larger threats, it would be impossible if we killed them all straightaway.

IS N'zoth even dead? Azshara certainly isn't. Irdikron, Valanoth, Galakrond - and there is no gurantee all of these will be baddies we put down, some of them are bound to have twists. I can conceive a twist concerning Azshara that would totally flip the scales on her and trun from villain to anti-hero. But then if a void expansion is to come, that's definitely a chance for her to be a major villain. to be dealt with.

[Lazgo]

Withered for sure, they should of been an allied race in legion or bfa.

[username993720]

The same way Blood Elves filled a niche in the Horde, amirite? (Yes, we both prefer them not being in the Horde, and that is the point of this snarky remark)

Not faction niche. Race niche. The high elven snobs who, in this case, got a little too cocky.

Who said anything was perfect? Do you really think I ever made that point? If so, you're being intentionally delusional as fuck.

So why were you pointing out flaws at Death Knights and Monks (who were delivered whole)

What difference would that make?

A lot. Does Galakrond not look badass? Couldn't Chromatus be an interesting foe?

[Triceron]

So why were you pointing out flaws at Death Knights and Monks (who were delivered whole)

'Whole' is relative. If Monks were missing spells and you consider that whole, then you could also say a 2 spec Dracthyr is also delivered whole since Demon Hunters also only have 2 Specs.

It really depends on what you consider to be 'unfinished', because even Vanilla came out with plenty of classes that were unfinished and missing core features that had to be patched in through class reworks. For example, Hunters originally had focus resource, then they swapped that to Mana for release, and were only able to bring back focus a few expansions later.

A lot. Does Galakrond not look badass? Couldn't Chromatus be an interesting foe?

Again, what difference would that make? You don't think the Primal Incarnates look badass?

I mean lets put it this way. If Galakrond was a raid boss, you still wouldn't resub to the game.

[Berndorf]

Forsaken allied race: undead quillboars.

[username993720]

Again, what difference would that make? You don't think the Primal Incarnates look badass?

I mean lets put it this way. If Galakrond was a raid boss, you still wouldn't resub to the game.

Their dragon forms, maybe. Their visages look like something out of an animated show.

They sorta made Galakrond goofier with his new look. Should have stayed true to the original concept art.

[Triceron]

Their dragon forms, maybe. Their visages look like something out of an animated show.

They sorta made Galakrond goofier with his new look. Should have stayed true to the original concept art.

Like I said, it wouldn't have made any difference.

If you don't think Galakrond is badass now (including just the fact they even brought him back into the lore), you still wouldn't if they just brought him back as a raid boss. The problem you have with the game is deeper than just the looks, we both know this.

[panda040]

I think races are super limited due to all the work to make old gear fit on them, they really have to have a set skeleton. We already saw this with the drakthyr. I do think ogre's are similar enough to work though, maybe they just don't think they will be popular enough to put the effort into. Hell i barely see kultirans and they are bigger humans. Shame you can't unfat them, i would play one then.

[Berndorf]

I think races are super limited due to all the work to make old gear fit on them, they really have to have a set skeleton. We already saw this with the drakthyr. I do think ogre's are similar enough to work though, maybe they just don't think they will be popular enough to put the effort into. Hell i barely see kultirans and they are bigger humans. Shame you can't unfat them, i would play one then.

To me the issue with Kul Tirans(and many other race models) isn't the fact they are fat. It's that the proportions are so off. Arms almost the size of their legs. Then on others the proportion of shoulder width to waist is just absurd. Also the redundancy of faces on Kul Tirans is terrible(male and female). Male Kul Tiran arms should be 20% smaller and legs 20% larger.

[panda040]

Alot of races are like that, humans included they are all roided up. The answer is just better customization for muscle tone, height of course bust sliders