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  1. #41
    Dragonflight is great as a casual player

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    didnt the last one kill it?LOL
    Yeah I remember Cataclysm being pretty universally hated, with the constant barrage of demand for being able to level in the "good ol' zones" being nonstop until WoW Classic released. I have no idea when we suddenly shifted to "let's revamp the world AGAIN! Even harder this time!"

    (I still want an Outland revamp instead. Mainly because I just don't think there's anything to be salvaged from that original questing.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Yeah I remember Cataclysm being pretty universally hated, with the constant barrage of demand for being able to level in the "good ol' zones" being nonstop until WoW Classic released. I have no idea when we suddenly shifted to "let's revamp the world AGAIN! Even harder this time!"

    (I still want an Outland revamp instead. Mainly because I just don't think there's anything to be salvaged from that original questing.)
    I'd say it's a combination of short-term memory and those who were fine with the revamp make up the majority of people left playing or interested in WoW.

    I wouldn't go so far as saying the revamp of Cata was universally hated, but at least there was a vocal backlash to it comparable to those who were happy for it (when it feels like most vocal responses tend to be heavily one direction nowadays, or at least perceived as such). If anything, those who were against the revamp were ones who were against removing access to the older version completely versus the revamp as a concept; basically, they wanted something like we have now, where you can phase to different versions of zones in the old world depending upon where in the story you want to be. No one likes it when you take what you like, replace it with something new while not giving you the option to enjoy the older version... which seems to be a Blizz habit even outside of WoW.

    Kind of lines up with what I tend to believe: add, don't subtract whenever possible. Obviously there are outliers where it's probably better to get rid of something, but there has to be a pretty big reason to do so. Phase tech was still in its infancy back in Cata IIRC, game's getting so old that the specific dates for things kind of blend together now, so I can understand potentially why they didn't have access to the older content. However, Blizz saying things like the data is lost and there's nothing we can do about it (only for Classic WoW to come around to show that was a lie) versus actually telling the truth (which likely was they didn't feel like it was worth the time/effort to add back the old content) is what really gets players upset. Unfortunately, there will be a stigma for some players on the game based upon how Blizz themselves interact with the players, and that stigma probably isn't going to go away anytime soon... especially if Blizz repeats their actions.

    Anyways, back on topic. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Dragonflight is a safe expansion. Its goal isn't to wow you or bring in new blood to the game, it's to keep players from leaving the game. Probably makes the expansion feel like it's soulless for some.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2023-10-02 at 04:36 PM.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #44
    Honestly, Dragonflight only made me stay at least a week. Most of my friends are now playing different games not even one of them bother about dragonflight knowing it's a hot garbage dragon fetish xpac.

    You are not forced to stay... Right right?
    Last edited by trapmaster; 2023-10-02 at 04:55 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Whiles I feel in many ways it has been better than some recent expansions, at the same time it seems to be missing … soul?

    I wonder how much AI was used to generate stuff for this expac.

    Maybe it’s just wow exhaustion but both Shadowlands and BFA felt like they had a bit more soil. /shrug
    Well, BfA had plenty of soul up until BoDA at least, just shit gameplay and sucky systems.

    SL was ironically the epitome of soullesness, and DF, well, it has come back only ever so slightly from that.
    Aberrus felt like a step in the right direction with the first bit of genuinely memorable music in a long time. Then there's Dawn of the infinite which, in spite of some jarring aspects to it, felt more warcrafty than a lot of stuff has in a long time.

    So yeah, i definitely see what you mean.
    Last edited by loras; 2023-10-02 at 05:00 PM.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

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  6. #46
    You're older and more experienced. When you're a kid, everything is exciting. When you're older and have seen a lot, nothing really seems new nor exciting anymore.

    Btw, despite all the years of progress, AI is still incapable of accurately reading handwriting with good accuracy off a piece of paper. AI is not magic, not sure where all the craziness over it is coming from.

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer Clone's Avatar
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    No, it's in your head.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    The gameplay loop has been souless for ages, now the story got all these new shades of corporate woke in it. Only people who played games from OG golden age Blizzard will know the vibe.
    I hope to dear god I evolved as a person in 20 years. Imagine if I were the same mental age as the teen I was back then and appreciated the same stuff in the exact same way. I used to love playing hide and seek and similar games when I was a kid, but I wouldn't call my friends over for hide and seek... and be upset with them if they wanted to do something else.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Yeah I remember Cataclysm being pretty universally hated, with the constant barrage of demand for being able to level in the "good ol' zones" being nonstop until WoW Classic released. I have no idea when we suddenly shifted to "let's revamp the world AGAIN! Even harder this time!"

    (I still want an Outland revamp instead. Mainly because I just don't think there's anything to be salvaged from that original questing.)
    If they do a revamp this time I think it should be from 70-90 , do something surprising.

    They could give the option to also start from level 1 in the starting areas that will have 2 phases, a phase for beginning and a phase for level 70.

    Alternatively, they could instead not give a beginner level experience in the revamp, but instead build from the Forbiddrn reach start zone at level 10, so the levelling starts from level 10, and you all go to your racial areas to learn more about your race after level 10 , following the zone quests.


    Would be interesting g to see allied races given zonal quests too. I would probably have every race having at least 3 zones focused wholly to their race as far as faction questions g is concerned, but will also have many other zones related

    E.g. Dark Irons will be directed to Badlands, Searing Gorge, then Burning steppes, which will follow a racial storyline tied to the zone before heading g elsewhere. They can then do the bro zebeard and wikdhammer zones if they want and they will find a lot more dark Iron related stuff there, before moving to other areas

    Mag'har orcs - Sunni what to give them, ideally I'd revamp Draenor zones for them. AU Nagrand, AU BlackRock, AJ Tanaan, Au shadowmoon,

    Void elves - Eversong Forest, Ghostlands and Quel'danis with a Telogrus revamp - different quests to blood elves who also use those zones
    Nightborne - Suramar - written from a nightfallen perspective, Val'sharah, Azsuna and Thal'dranath.
    Highmountain - Highmountain(too and Drogba caves), Stormheim, then Stonetalon Mou Taiwan s
    Lightforged - Argus, - written from a Lightforged persoective AU Talador, Hillsbrad
    Zandalari - Zandalar zones and quests for BFA
    Kul'tirans - essentially Kul'tiran quests
    Mechagnomes - Mechagon island, Mechagon city (with quests), Sorm Peaks
    Vulpera - Vol'dun, Twilight Highlands, Tanaris
    Dracthyr - Dragonflight zones
    Death Knights - Icecrown, The Maw, Maldraxxus
    Illidari - Marduum, Outland - Shadowmoon Valley, Revendreth and Sargeras' Prison

  10. #50
    Dragonflight is the expansion of "playing it safe."

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Whiles I feel in many ways it has been better than some recent expansions, at the same time it seems to be missing … soul?

    I wonder how much AI was used to generate stuff for this expac.

    Maybe it’s just wow exhaustion but both Shadowlands and BFA felt like they had a bit more soil. /shrug
    This has been one of the most boring expansions that I have ever played in WoW. Not only the main theme is boring, but also the story on this expansion is uninspiring and predictable. There are 0 reasons for me to play it, not even the rewards are good enough for me to farm reputation and mounts/pets.
    So many of its features and transmog are a big no for me. That include those ugly dungeon sets, raid sets and events that are repetitive and boring to play like the Time Rifts.
    The only reason I'm still sub, is because I was having so much fun leveling alts, playing my favorite WoW races and collecting old transmog from past expansions. The character that i assigned for DF content is just there, doing nothing in that boring af cave called Zaralek.

    WoW dev team really need new leadership and design strategies for the game. It feels like the game is made by people who doesn't even play the game. It feels like they have a formula that they think it works, but is really not working at all. My server Moonguard and Area 52 are both a graveyard in everything related to Dragonflight content. People are not in any of the activities around the Dragon Isles and because of that, is hard to complete said activities. How many times i have reach the last part of Time Rifts only to see that everyone left the event before the last boss. And how many times I see the Iskaara soup even almost empty. Even the damn professions are so freaking useless. I have no reason to farm any of the mats, because they are so freaking cheap in the AH and I can't even craft something worth of my time (or for transmog purposes).

    Meanwhile, I returned to FF14 and the game is so full of players. Tomorrow we get a new patch and during the weekened I was able to farm enough tomes to get an awesome mount that I always wanted. I'm also close to level up another job to 90. Why WoW doesn't have housing system? or multi-class in both professions and combat classes? Why is older content obsolet, like Legion, BFA, etc?. Why I have to be forced to only play DF as endgame content?. Why are professions items like food, potions, scrolls obsolet? What is the point of even leveling up professions from past expansions if everything is going to be junk? Why I can craft grey quality items on Inscription (LOL)?, Why they don't update Vanilla zones and put world quests and treasures on them, instead of creating "anther island expansion"?
    For real....Are they even playing the game they create?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Dragonflight is the expansion of "playing it safe."
    More like "playing it the boring way". DF is so freaking boring
    Last edited by Altmer; 2023-10-02 at 07:22 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Yeah I remember Cataclysm being pretty universally hated, with the constant barrage of demand for being able to level in the "good ol' zones" being nonstop until WoW Classic released. I have no idea when we suddenly shifted to "let's revamp the world AGAIN! Even harder this time!"

    (I still want an Outland revamp instead. Mainly because I just don't think there's anything to be salvaged from that original questing.)
    The cataclysm revamp was bad because all it did was break shit and just left it as is (ontop of nuking all the old content also but we have chromie time for that now so it's not an issue)

    Something similar also happened in GW2 where a big enemy tower was built in a nice largely peaceful zone and then it was left a toxic waste dump after it was demolished and everyone hated it.

    I think people want the world restored, not just revamped per se, put back into a more 'timeless' state that isn't all revolving around a threat that was defeated over a decade ago.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    It could work if the entire new revamped world was the end game also and not just the levelling part.
    Yes, but the way retail content is consumed vs classic is vastly different. In retail, players are used to quickly consumed content. Be it leveling or at max level content.

    In classic, everything is slower. Literally everything. Travelling, questing, dungeons (forming+travel+clear) and so much more of that version of the game.

    Tbh, if they ever did a revamp for retail it would probably require a total overhaul. Smack us all down to level 1 and make the questing a bigger part of it. Couple that with relevant end game content set in the updated EK & K.

  14. #54
    It's worse than I thought it would be after the initial fun of dragon riding wore off. Not really a fan of the zones and the level of fantasy/immersion in the Dragon isles. It really feels to me like its missing a zone or something I can't quite put into words. Dungeons are also way too long imo which killed any desire I had to keep running them. I remember in MoP when Bliz said that short dungeons with less trash would be the new status quo yet we saw that actually put into the game.. never. Maybe a bit with WoD but then they went right back to boring dungeons with way too much trash.
    Last edited by Berndorf; 2023-10-02 at 08:38 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    The old world (classic) works cause theres 1-60 leveling that takes time (for most people), just to reach 60 is daunting enough for many. The game opens up for alot of time for things to just happen, or not happen. The game lets you breathe, in the sense that nothing is stressed or rushed. Everything takes time, ergo you open up to that concept. Its a different approach. Theres time for weird interactions, random stuff happening, interactions with other players, travel for world buff events and so much more cause the whole game lets you have space to excist in a MMORPG without rails.

    In retail you reach max level in a matter of hours. Its all about getting that alt to max level. Nothing else. Theres no time for anything. Reach. Max. Level. Would it work if Blizzard did a total world revamp, forced everyone back to level 1 and said "hey, heres every god damn zone updated and we all start at level 1 again. Oh btw, it will take just about the same time to reach 60 as in the old world". Highly doubt it would.
    Imo, this is my biggest problem with retail. And for me, a solution is to write good engaging stories in-zones. Things that also flesh out your own player, race and class, and of course, cultural specifics.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by dlld View Post
    The cataclysm revamp was bad because all it did was break shit and just left it as is (ontop of nuking all the old content also but we have chromie time for that now so it's not an issue)

    Something similar also happened in GW2 where a big enemy tower was built in a nice largely peaceful zone and then it was left a toxic waste dump after it was demolished and everyone hated it.

    I think people want the world restored, not just revamped per se, put back into a more 'timeless' state that isn't all revolving around a threat that was defeated over a decade ago.
    I mean, we're in the "nature is healing!" phase of WoW with Dragonflight, would you be for an Anti-Cataclysm Expansion, where we work with neutral groups of shamans, druids, and the like to go around EK and Kalimdor draining Thousand Needles, filling ravines, wrestling tornados and fighting volcanoes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  17. #57
    I've been enjoying my time.

    As a Retribution Paladin, with the spec rework, class design peaked hard, which obviously plays a big part for my enjoyment.
    The raids have been solid, gear system is kind of a disaster though, but raiding has been good.
    I've enjoyed the weekly chores if you will.
    The zones are nice, but nothing particularly exciting.

    But my god, I really couldn't give less of a shit about the story if I even tried.
    It's atrociously boring & dull. Possibly even worse than MoP.
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  18. #58
    Its amazing when a current expansion drops you have all of these people that come out of the woodworks that said the previous expansion was better. I'm sorry but Dragonflight is amazing, It brought so much more fun back to the game and took away so much of the unnecessary bullshit grinding from previous expansions.

    As soon as you drop into the dragon isles you can fly, you can travel around this vast open world on your own customizable dragon and you upgrade it in the most fun way to make that travel even more convenient. Classes are more fun and leveling them with the talent system brought back.

    The story in Dragonflight needs work but at least the expansion pushed the game in the right direction for new and old players.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baraden View Post
    It shares the similar problem of Shadowlands that it just doesn't *feel* like you're on Azeroth and playing Warcraft, but at least it isn't retroactively altering and destroying lore so that's refreshing

    The reason the old world revamp is so often called for is because people want to actually play in Azeroth in the zones we relate to WoW, it's hard to care about the Dragon Isles when you know in a year you'll be in another setting and will almost never return

    Also this is the third expansion with an enemy of ambiguous motive and we feel like idiot kids in their game of 4d chess; that does kinda get old versus; "here's the lich king/ sargeras - they're evil, kill them"
    I think this is the crux of the issue. Aside from the lore trainwreck that was BC, in every expansion until SL our characters had defined, very clearcut reasons to be where they were. Whether it was Northrend, Pandaria, the Broken Isles or Zandalar/Kul Tiras, we knew(*) what we were doing in all those places.

    Even in WoD, which was the first expansion to jump the proverbial shark, the game was still aesthetically appealing, and very Warcraft-based, what with the heavy WC2 vibes of the intro scenario and many parts of the levelling experience. Something that they tried to do again with SL, only to fail miserably. The many " 'member?" moments of the story in SL felt artificial and heavy handed because the story was as nonsensical as WoD (Sylv getting triggered as all @#%& when the Janitor spoke the word "serve", roflmao) while also completely and utterly lacking the cool factor of WoD.

    (*) As for BfA, while we thought we knew what we were doing there, it was all bait and switch, especially for Horde players. The hacks in charge of writing knew that they needed a faction war to keep things interesting, but being the hacks they are, they couldn't help making a MoP copycat but somehow even worse. And then they came with ANOTHER Sylvanas wankfest, which I'm sure many players were delighted with, further cementing their involvement with the storyline of SL...

    And now, while there is no more in-yer-face, "cosmic” stuff, anybody who isn't a parses junkie should have asked themselves at some point "WTF am I doing here?". Going to some random isles to solve dragon grandma's problems doesn't really sound too enticing, does it? Especially when dragons in WoW have consistently been one of the most yawn-worthy characters. Once upon a time, they tried really hard to one-up Arthas with Fartwing only to be met with embarrassing failure. Although in true Blizzard logic, they may have thought that the problem with Cata was that it only featured a handful of dragons, so the solution clearly was to have a lot of them instead.

    Kappa.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielKnight View Post
    Yeah, sadly. It's by far the most uninspired expansion. Even the pandas at least had more personality - I mean, a terrible asian themed one, but it worked for those who liked that. Dragonfart feels like a bunch of sad self-inserts of mediocre artists.
    Tbh perhaps the problem isn't about the artists, but rather the corporate directives they must adhere to. The name of the game is "play as safe as we can", which doesn't sound terribly attractive, and it's further compounded by all the morality lessons and unabashed virtue signaling we've been getting non stop since BfA at the very least.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Whiles I feel in many ways it has been better than some recent expansions, at the same time it seems to be missing … soul?

    I wonder how much AI was used to generate stuff for this expac.

    Maybe it’s just wow exhaustion but both Shadowlands and BFA felt like they had a bit more soil. /shrug
    No, dragonflight is objectively the best place wow has been in over a decade. If you don't like it, it's more likely you just don't like wow anymore.

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