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  1. #1

    Removing borrowed power was a mistake

    Yes, how borrowed powers were implemented was not good - grinds are generally unwelcome/unhealthy.

    BUT

    Having just base classes (talents + tier) makes the game super boring imo.

    If you ignore how they were obtained and any imbalances, weren't Essences and Corruption actually really cool? Big beams blasting, tentacles, kiss/curse corruption, melee slappers, Lucid dreams for casters, etc.

    Class and Spec talents just feel extremely bland right now - just tons of passives and no exciting buttons to press.

    Having a new borrowed power each patch, all ramping up together into GIGA mode in the final season of the expansion was a cool power fantasy ramp up. And wouldnt feel bad to be removed next expansion if something similar, fun and temporary was added instead.

    Corruptions allowed for massive customizations, Essence abilities felt powerful and satisfactory to press. Current specs all play the same and even with some minor variety of a rotation or a passive, there is nothing EXCITING in them, IMO.

  2. #2
    No. The game does not need 4 different systems ontop of what we have now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    way to response after first word before waiting for me to actualy finish...

  3. #3
    Borrowed powers are heavily regarded as a bad addition to WoW because it created an unnecessary grind, Grinding to increase a borrowed power just to have it taken away the next expansion.

    The only way it would have been a great addition is if they went the FFXIV route and used it as a catch up mechanic and something to collect and show off later.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Yes, how borrowed powers were implemented was not good - grinds are generally unwelcome/unhealthy.

    BUT

    Having just base classes (talents + tier) makes the game super boring imo.

    If you ignore how they were obtained and any imbalances, weren't Essences and Corruption actually really cool? Big beams blasting, tentacles, kiss/curse corruption, melee slappers, Lucid dreams for casters, etc.

    Class and Spec talents just feel extremely bland right now - just tons of passives and no exciting buttons to press.

    Having a new borrowed power each patch, all ramping up together into GIGA mode in the final season of the expansion was a cool power fantasy ramp up. And wouldnt feel bad to be removed next expansion if something similar, fun and temporary was added instead.

    Corruptions allowed for massive customizations, Essence abilities felt powerful and satisfactory to press. Current specs all play the same and even with some minor variety of a rotation or a passive, there is nothing EXCITING in them, IMO.
    You disgust me. I'm not dealing with 5 plus systems just know im playing well, fuck that. It seems like what you like is the new abilties/effects borrowed power brings, not the systems itself.

    9/13/23

  5. #5
    I don't think the game has a gameplay systems problem.

    I think the game has a lack of interesting things to do, bad tuning, and weak reward system problem.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by panda040 View Post
    You disgust me. I'm not dealing with 5 plus systems just know im playing well, fuck that. It seems like what you like is the new abilties/effects borrowed power brings, not the systems itself.
    To be entirely fair.. that's what he said. You didn't read his post at all, you saw what you wanted to see. He said IGNORE the acquisition (which was 70% of why Borrowed Power was AWFUL, with the 30% going to the fact that it always felt like you lost too much into the next expansion) and Focus on what you got from it instead and whether or not that was or wasn't more fun than going back to a bunch of passive cookie cutter talents.

  7. #7
    The game is just fine

  8. #8
    Banned Ladey Gags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Yes, how borrowed powers were implemented was not good - grinds are generally unwelcome/unhealthy.
    The whole point of MMOs are grinds. Removing borrwed power removed all form of player power grind outside of mind numbing m+ spam and raid logging. Theres literally nothing to do in this expansion thats worthwhile, that increases your character, outside of those 2 game modes. If you dont want to grind then go play a single player game. Theres so many options for people who dont like grinds. But this genre IS the grind genre. If you dont like that then move on

    That said, itd be possible to create a system that advances player power WITHOUT feeling mandatory to m+ spammers and raid loggers. But that would require an innovative, knowledgeable team of devs to think up and design instead of just throwing useless mounts and cosmetics at every form of open world content

  9. #9
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    No thank you

    It's so stupid to spend months to years building up a unique power then one day it's like "ooops I forgot how to do the thing I've been spending all this time honing". Bunch of abilities I liked that are lost now...and that goes back to Legion too, lost some cool stuff from the weapons

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladey Gags View Post
    The whole point of MMOs are grinds. Removing borrwed power removed all form of player power grind outside of mind numbing m+ spam and raid logging. Theres literally nothing to do in this expansion thats worthwhile, that increases your character, outside of those 2 game modes. If you dont want to grind then go play a single player game. Theres so many options for people who dont like grinds. But this genre IS the grind genre. If you dont like that then move on

    That said, itd be possible to create a system that advances player power WITHOUT feeling mandatory to m+ spammers and raid loggers. But that would require effort to think up and design instead of just throwing useless mounts and cosmetics at every form of open world content
    That's exactly why they got rid of stuff like that...so you aren't required to log on every day for endless grinding...you miss one day you're behind...you take a little break and you may as well hang it up because you've just lost a lot of power

  10. #10
    Banned Ladey Gags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    That's exactly why they got rid of stuff like that...so you aren't required to log on every day for endless grinding...you miss one day you're behind...you take a little break and you may as well hang it up because you've just lost a lot of power
    1) games shouldnt be designed around this type of OCD fomo player, games shouldnt have less content because people are scared of falling behind
    2)there are possible solutions to this such as charge systems for drops that you can accumulate every day you dont login, or somethign else idk im not a game designer, but there are possible ways to alleviate the OCD fomo players while keeping engaging rewarding content outside of m+ and raids

  11. #11
    No
    Ten chars

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Borrowed powers are heavily regarded as a bad addition to WoW because it created an unnecessary grind, Grinding to increase a borrowed power just to have it taken away the next expansion.

    The only way it would have been a great addition is if they went the FFXIV route and used it as a catch up mechanic and something to collect and show off later.

    Nah. It was hammered into most people's heads through repeated whining by world first guild youtubers and such. For THEM it was a grind, a real grind, because they had to do crap like 5000 Isles in the span of a week. And they could not bloody afford this kind of grind. Any "grind" and RNG that needs to be compressed in 1-2 weeks is obviously a very big problem for them. The neck, the legendaries, titanforging and so on.

    For the majority of us it was a mostly passive thing. Not much different from any type of gear and had nothing but advantages. I would argue that the current system is actually worse in that regards for the average player. We have ppl in the guild who don't do anything aside from raid so have nothing upgraded which seems worse than when they were actually getting a legendary with minimal effort or getting their neck upgraded mostly passively just being in the raid.

    Btw, you lose your power next expansion regardless. You become weaker, your stats lower as you level and have to grind it all over again to get back to your desired haste % and so on. Nevermind specific trinket effects, special items like back, legendary drop and tier every season.
    Last edited by Loveliest; 2023-10-02 at 10:05 PM.

  13. #13
    It was a good move for blizzard to do. The problem wow has is not lacking power grind. Ill be honest I think this game simply need some sort of reset again, more drastic then Cata. Trim down old systems, go back to a more stream lined version. Its an unconvinent wall for bringing new players. I personally want to see what blizzcon hold and pass judgement from there. Content > systems.

  14. #14
    Borrowed power is a good system for outdoor-only content. If each zone had its own 'borrowed power' system to progress and upgrade throughout an expansion, I'd be fine. The moment it becomes relevant for dungeons/raids/battlegrounds is the moment issues start to crop up.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    weren't Essences and Corruption actually really cool? Big beams blasting, tentacles, kiss/curse corruption, melee slappers, Lucid dreams for casters, etc.

    Class and Spec talents just feel extremely bland right now - just tons of passives and no exciting buttons to press.
    They could just bake this shit into the classes one way or another instead of making players jump through hoops to attain them, because that's what you are complaining about: gameplay is bland (in your opinion), gameplay with those skills was better. So the way you obtain them shouldn't matter to you.

    The only thing borrowed power did positively was give an actual power up rewarded through world content. Dragonflight is tremendously lacking on rewarding world content but that can solved with stronger gear and less rng bullshit. Introducing borrowed power back as as system unnecessary. Introducing Twilight Devastation back straight into my talents? Sure, why not.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Dismayxz View Post
    To be entirely fair.. that's what he said. You didn't read his post at all, you saw what you wanted to see. He said IGNORE the acquisition (which was 70% of why Borrowed Power was AWFUL, with the 30% going to the fact that it always felt like you lost too much into the next expansion) and Focus on what you got from it instead and whether or not that was or wasn't more fun than going back to a bunch of passive cookie cutter talents.
    It wasn't fun for me to have to hit cap then regain some bonuses that the spec is designed and balanced around

    No reason the bonuses couldn't be talents and they were still cookie cutter

  17. #17
    Just wait for thr wayfayer announcement at blizzcon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Except it would only be "textbook" confirmation bias if I fully believed that a third spec was actually coming.

  18. #18
    Or maybe blizzard could just up the awesomeness of the borrowed power that is already in game. Make tier gear do awesome OP shit. But only in the season that you (are supposed to) acquire it. Why not go nuts and make a M+ tier set that is so much better than raid gear that using raid gear would be like using pvp gear in M+? Let people get awesome shit for what they want to do. And then throw it away for the next season.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  19. #19
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    You are three years too early with this one, pal.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Yes, how borrowed powers were implemented was not good - grinds are generally unwelcome/unhealthy.

    BUT

    Having just base classes (talents + tier) makes the game super boring imo.
    It was fucking atrocious. What makes the game boring in PvE is the entire concept of PvE.

    What makes the game boring in PvP is the superfluous "progression" that just means that people are forced to do BGs where they can't possibly make a difference until they have the gear.

    A stupid proc making a tank randomly damage people for more HP than anyone can possibly have? Lol. only PvEers would think that it's fun. (given they they like PvE in the first place of course it means they have horrible taste)

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