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  1. #1021
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Good news. Delves are not single player content!
    Ok fine - scenarios. Not interested in those either, scenarios sucked. I want hard group content with the triad.
    “Remember, your personal views don't reflect the majority of players.”

    -Someone arguing that their personal views reflect the majority of players

  2. #1022
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Ok fine - scenarios. Not interested in those either, scenarios sucked. I want hard group content with the triad.
    Good news! M+ still exists
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  3. #1023
    Not sure why you guys conflate casual and single-player so ..casually. Some of the most casual players in WoW are in raid teams that goof around normal mode raiding (if they do heroic or 1 mythic boss they consider it "hard core" to them).

    If anything the "Raids & Dungeons" category could use more single player; more "hard core"; mage tower etc.

  4. #1024
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Not sure why you guys conflate casual and single-player so ..casually. Some of the most casual players in WoW are in raid teams that goof around normal mode raiding (if they do heroic or 1 mythic boss they consider it "hard core" to them).

    If anything the "Raids & Dungeons" category could use more single player; more "hard core"; mage tower etc.
    A guy i raid with has done literally zero m+ this season and we are 7 of 9 mythic completed. He refuses to spend much time on m+ mostly due to being a dad who is very busy, sure he buys tokens for things but to each their own in my eyes. He plays DPS at a very high level and we will get hall of fame this season altho likely at the cut off point. Could he do more if he grinded keys? more then likely but its not required or needed in the slightest.

  5. #1025
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    He refuses to spend much time on m+ mostly due to being a dad who is very busy
    Are you (or is he) implying that m+ is a bigger time commitment than HOF raiding?

  6. #1026
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I envision a game where there are "mini mythic pluses" anywhere there is a boss; at the same time: out of combat time and trash time are ignored because they are either meaningless or not representative of skill or the punish people for disconnecting etc; the "mini mythic pluses" would exist both in raiding and 5mans equally.

    For instance you kill the 1st boss of a 5man (or raid) and because it's the easiest boss you may be now on level 8 on it; you get level 8 gear from it; but when you go to the last boss (after passing through meaningless easy trash) you may be only level 2 there because it's a hard boss but you may need its level 2 tier gear etc.

    I'm just trying to figure out the lock outs now; will it be per-person with no keys at all; yeah maybe a per-person "global mythic plus" for the entire game is optimal.
    The moment you said this is the moment we all knew you know nothing of M+ therefore a discussion with you about this is pointless

  7. #1027
    Quote Originally Posted by neescher View Post
    Are you (or is he) implying that m+ is a bigger time commitment than HOF raiding?
    Neither i am implying that it is not required to progress in a mythic raiding environment its a bonus after 2-3 weeks of killing the first 4-6 bosses which provide a decent amount of upgrade crests. His hatred of M+ is along the lines of i do not enjoy it nor do i want to commit the time learning multiple mobs along with bosses and timings plus he spends a shit ton of time with his children. Now he is the only one who does that we have a few who will do very few keys like 4 or less but people need to stop the attitude of if it has a chance like the lottery to make myself better I HAVE TO DO IT mentality.

    Hell i heal in the raid but i also open my weekly vault as a Brewmaster, call it selfish which is fine but whatever i care more for M+ then raiding anyhow.

  8. #1028
    Quote Originally Posted by LexiSwe View Post
    Blizzard has never solved one problem with one solution but I insist this is on the right path to get the best feeling of the game. I dont want people leaving for the reason the key wont make it after 20 min
    Read a class guide then so you're better at the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    I tanked heroics in BC, where it really was pulling one pack at a time, Sheep star, sap moon, that whole thing (Or that one bit in mechanar on my warlock: Banish one, enslave another, and do DPS while watching both), and that was terrible too (Especially if your class didn't have CC in some form, forget skill-checks, bring CC or GTFO!)
    You and everyone you played with in TBC was actively bad at the game. I'm sure you were fine by the standards of the day, but we know now that none of that was necessary. Not now, not back then. You could have ignored all that CC and just blendered it all down with careful stuns and interrupts, the same as today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    "I don't like something so I'm fine if Blizzard takes away one of the single most popular features ever added to the game."
    Most played doesn't mean most popular, though. If they made M+ gear not work in raids you'd see a 80%+ reduction in M+ runs within a week. Most people who do M+ only do so to gain an advantage in raiding.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  9. #1029
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post

    You and everyone you played with in TBC was actively bad at the game. I'm sure you were fine by the standards of the day, but we know now that none of that was necessary. Not now, not back then. You could have ignored all that CC and just blendered it all down with careful stuns and interrupts, the same as today.
    You are not allowed to tell them that.

    It baffles me how in the period of 2014 and up, were streaming, youtube videos, guides, everything is so popular, but people somehow simply still cant compare their experience to what they are viewing and go "Oh, i know jack shit about how to play the game apparently".

    But somehow if we are talking about the period before 2014, and that period of the game is mentioned, they have this delusion that they can hide and produce false (False for the reality, true for their experience) data, and everyone should accept it as truth.

    All these problems, delusions and nostalgia glasses are all just community created problems that have no basis or reality to the game.

    99% of WoW problems are fixed by responding "Get a guild" and "You are bad, get a guild with equally bad players and improve together", but somehow we have to create the same threads over and over.
    Last edited by potis; 2024-01-15 at 07:37 PM.

  10. #1030
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    You could have ignored all that CC and just blendered it all down with careful stuns and interrupts, the same as today.
    Difference being that back then interrupts were on the GCD.

  11. #1031
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    Neither i am implying that it is not required to progress in a mythic raiding environment its a bonus after 2-3 weeks of killing the first 4-6 bosses which provide a decent amount of upgrade crests. His hatred of M+ is along the lines of i do not enjoy it nor do i want to commit the time learning multiple mobs along with bosses and timings plus he spends a shit ton of time with his children. Now he is the only one who does that we have a few who will do very few keys like 4 or less but people need to stop the attitude of if it has a chance like the lottery to make myself better I HAVE TO DO IT mentality.

    Hell i heal in the raid but i also open my weekly vault as a Brewmaster, call it selfish which is fine but whatever i care more for M+ then raiding anyhow.
    I would tell them to suck it up or find a new guild. Do you need to spam keys all day long everyday? No, but you would be stupid to not do some keys at the start of a season for obvious reasons (crests and gear). You gear up significantly slower by just raiding.
    Last edited by shyguybman; 2024-01-15 at 10:43 PM.

  12. #1032
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    You and everyone you played with in TBC was actively bad at the game. I'm sure you were fine by the standards of the day, but we know now that none of that was necessary. Not now, not back then. You could have ignored all that CC and just blendered it all down with careful stuns and interrupts, the same as today.
    I think the (easily overlooked, over a dozen years later) issue is that we have a far better toolkit nowadays, i tanked as a warrior, hardly any AoE-threat skills, it's also bold to assume that people running heroics now even know about "Careful stuns and interrupts" (Which are also more common/convenient to use nowadays), let alone back then.

  13. #1033
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    You and everyone you played with in TBC was actively bad at the game. I'm sure you were fine by the standards of the day, but we know now that none of that was necessary. Not now, not back then. You could have ignored all that CC and just blendered it all down with careful stuns and interrupts, the same as today.
    Actually the problem with TBC aoeing dungeons was only prot paladin actually had aoe threat, prot wars where garbage at this. You didn't need careful stuns or anything to just aoe blast those heroics with a prot paladin.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Most played doesn't mean most popular, though. If they made M+ gear not work in raids you'd see a 80%+ reduction in M+ runs within a week. Most people who do M+ only do so to gain an advantage in raiding.
    And this stat is completely pulled out of your ass. TBH the reverse is true, if raid gear didn't work in M+ then raid participation would fall off a fucking cliff outside of CE guilds. Right now heroic raiding is only so popular because of trinkets and special effect loot(and faster tier acquisition at start of season). If M+ players didn't have to raid lol, good luck finding raid groups my man.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2024-01-16 at 04:52 PM.

  14. #1034
    If they remove the timer, I'll simply quit. Hard mm+ (23+) are what motivates me to continue playing. I dont want to join a "raid guild" because most people in these guilds (1-2 raids per week) are bad unless you join a good guild which requires more time than simply run a few mm+ per week

    The only thing I want is a 2H debuff on people leaving keys before they expire (but a possibility to do it if 3 people are ok to quit). Leavers after only 1 wipe are the problem, most of time you can time any key with a few wipes

    I've played all expansions except MoP and both raids and dungeons were WAY EASIER back then, "classic" proved it.
    Last edited by vashe9; 2024-01-16 at 05:06 PM.

  15. #1035
    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    If they remove the timer, I'll simply quit. Hard mm+ (23+) are what motivates me to continue playing. I dont want to join a "raid guild"
    Why not both; devs should expand mythic+ to be both 5man+ and raiding+; it can work after certain tweaks.
    Most important tweak: don't countdown when out-of-combat (not even 5man+ should count that anyway).

    5man+ is so superior to raiding in certain aspects as you already noticed that raiding+ must exist.

  16. #1036
    Herald of the Titans Alroxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vashe9 View Post
    The only thing I want is a 2H debuff on people leaving keys before they expire (but a possibility to do it if 3 people are ok to quit). Leavers after only 1 wipe are the problem, most of time you can time any key with a few wipes
    First, doesn't that just encourage players to wait for the key timer then leave? Run seems to be going ok-ish but once we're at 0:00 left in timer, all of the sudden player leaves. They only stuck it out till the timer because they wanted to avoid the 2H debuff.

    And having a voting system (aka 3 players are ok with stopping) brings up other issues such as a minority of players (say 1 or 2) who don't want to be in the dungeon anymore but don't want to take the "hit" of the debuff. How incentivized are they to continue to play well up until the timer? Wouldn't that open the door for that minority (of the party) to play less than well to "convince" a 3rd person in the party to agree with them to end the run?

    I won't go into rehashing all the ways players can passive-aggressively play that's a greater waste of time than the current system where players can leave at will and go to another group.
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  17. #1037
    Quote Originally Posted by LexiSwe View Post
    We have had the same system since Legion and it has only led to being on being declined steam roll on dungeon finder. Now the new expansion have a chance to breath into it new fresh air by making it to something simple.

    Removing the timer! Enjoying the content by clearing it was one of the fonding memories back in the days, not being "skill checked" is clearly what is needed to bring new players to WoW.

    Raids dont have a timer so why should dungeons have?
    No because that would take away the essence of them

  18. #1038
    Elemental Lord Joveon Lightbringer's Avatar
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    And get stuck with bad pug for 2+ hours because I'm too nice to desert them? Nah, at least now there's a limit to the sadness.

    To Infinity and Beyond!

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