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  1. #1

    No half-measures - just perfect xpack

    I just want to create my own thread to stop posting it in other threads. TWW's design is step in right direction. But no features are truly complete and players have got tired of waiting for years. We don't get younger - only older. We don't want to be grandpas, when perfect Wow xpack will finally be released. Yeah, Blizzard need time to develop things. But they have had lots of time already. And now at least they should state, that all features will be complete ASAP - not stay hanged in air for years.

    These features are:
    1) All race-class combos. Because race, that identifies you, shouldn't restrict your class choice and you shouldn't be forced to play race, you don't like. Yeah, there are classes, that have scaling problems. These classes were accessible to very limited amount of races back then, so Blizzard decided to add unique features to them. Forms, totems, class mounts, etc. And now it prevents them from being added to more races, as it requires too much work. Solution? To do simple thing - to abandon "Unique features for every race" idea. For example to share all forms between all races and to gradually add new ones.
    2) Everything being account-wide. Because it's players, who play game, not characters. Game design shouldn't bind players to certain characters. Because in most cases players start to do one of two things: a) To avoid such content b) To avoid playing alts. Both are bad for game. Blizzard don't even understand, that making things like reps account-wide will add more incentive to complete them. Players don't want to work for things, if progress would be simply voided in case of switching to other character.
    3) Warbands being parties of alts. Because why should we implement some customizable/levelable NPCs, if we ALREADY have our alts? Something like solo-guild. With it's own name and tabard. We no longer would need solo banking guilds in this case. For now we level alts just for fun. How about making alts truly meaningful? It's my dream!
    4) Game-wide Diablo-like difficulty setting. It should be players' choice, when they want to make next step and switch to more challenging game - not devs' one. Too high difficutly - and game becomes slow, uncomfotable and even unplayable. Too low difficutly - and game becomes boring and starts lacking progression. But these "Too high" and "Too low" - are different for different players! Some players like to challenge themselves. But other players like to stay in easiers content for a little bit longer, because it's more comfortable for them. When devs force some average difficutly on players - 90% of players start to suffer. As devs might notice, causal players prefers content like old dungeon or raid runs. Simply because such content is chilling, relaxing and...rewarding! Problem is - current xpack doesn't provide such content, so casual players have nothing to do there. And it's big problem.
    5) Solo mode. Delves are ok and they're step in right direction, as solo content with optional multiplayer - is what we need now the most. But it's not enough. I expected whole game, except may be competitive endgame content, to be like this. We need solo leveling, solo WQs, solo dailies, solo rares, etc. Majority of content is still designed around punishing players for not joining groups. It's either about exceeding difficutly or exceeding competition. This should be stopped. Player should be rewarded for playing with other players - not punished for playing alone. If player doesn't want to play with other players right now - then forcing him to do it is counter-productive.
    6) Normal flying forever. Finally accepting, that normal flying is integral part of game and leaving it alone. Devs still have this "You have to complete game properly first", that is still big slap in a face, because it's still their vision of "properly", not ours. They've stated, that their game is designed to be alt-friendly. One thing, they still don't understand, is that player, who play alts, has to replay the same content many times. At least level his alts to max level. Therefore content have to be replayable. Replayable means, that it shouldn't be annoying or tedious. One-time content can be annoying, but not replayable one. Making content annoying = hating alts. And unfortunately such mechanics, as aggro, combat and respawn are extremely annoying. Especially when overused by devs. They serve their purpose in dungeons and raids, so may be it's good idea to also use them in outdoor for educational purposes. But there should always be some way to avoid them, if player doesn't want to deal with them. Another thing to notice: is that not all players like such things, as stealth actions, jump puzzles, navigation puzzles, any puzzles. They become extremely annoyed, when they're forced to play such content. Flying is great compromise here too.
    Last edited by WowIsDead64; 2023-11-06 at 03:36 PM.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  2. #2
    1) All race-class combos: This would completely destroy the RPG feel, certain races are more suited for certain classes lore wise. Retail already destroyed this enough
    2) Everything being account-wide: If its only for rep and unlocks then its fine, the items should still be character bound
    3) Warbands being parties of alts: This would be cool, kinda like maplestory where you are rewarded for having many alts
    4) Game-wide Diablo-like difficulty setting: This could turn out really bad or really good, players love the feel of getting stronger and 1 shotting things as they progress
    5) Solo mode: Its meant to be social mmo, why would you want to not group up? retail has already pretty much destroyed the social aspect as it is
    6) Normal flying forever: I feel like it should be instantly unlocked after the main questline is done, during levelling the world should feel dangerous but afterwards its basically end game so why not just give flying

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I just want to create my own thread to stop posting it in other threads. TWW's design is step in right direction. But no features are truly complete and players have got tired of waiting for years. We don't get younger - only older. We don't want to be grandpas, when perfect Wow xpack will finally be released. Yeah, Blizzard need time to develop things. But they have had lots of time already. And now at least they should state, that all features will be complete ASAP - not stay hanged in air for years.

    These features are:
    1) All race-class combos. Because race, that identifies you, shouldn't restrict your class choice and you shouldn't be forced to play race, you don't like. Yeah, there are classes, that have scaling problems. These classes were accessible to very limited amount of races back then, so Blizzard decided to add unique features to them. Forms, totems, class mounts, etc. And now it prevents them from being added to more races, as it requires too much work. Solution? To do simple thing - to abandon "Unique features for every race" idea. For example to share all forms between all races and to gradually add new ones.
    2) Everything being account-wide. Because it's players, who play game, not characters. Game design shouldn't bind players to certain characters. Because in most cases players start to do one of two things: a) To avoid such content b) To avoid playing alts. Both are bad for game. Blizzard don't even understand, that making things like reps account-wide will add more incentive to complete them. Players don't want to work for things, if progress would be simply voided in case of switching to other character.
    3) Warbands being parties of alts. Because why should we implement some customizable/levelable NPCs, if we ALREADY have our alts? Something like solo-guild. With it's own name and tabard. We no longer would need solo banking guilds in this case. For now we level alts just for fun. How about making alts truly meaningful? It's my dream!
    4) Game-wide Diablo-like difficulty setting. It should be players' choice, when they want to make next step and switch to more challenging game - not devs' one. Too high difficutly - and game becomes slow, uncomfotable and even unplayable. Too low difficutly - and game becomes boring and starts lacking progression. But these "Too high" and "Too low" - are different for different players! Some players like to challenge themselves. But other players like to stay in easiers content for a little bit longer, because it's more comfortable for them. When devs force some average difficutly on players - 90% of players start to suffer. As devs might notice, causal players prefers content like old dungeon or raid runs. Simply because such content is chilling, relaxing and...rewarding! Problem is - current xpack doesn't provide such content, so casual players have nothing to do there. And it's big problem.
    5) Solo mode. Delves are ok and they're step in right direction, as solo content with optional multiplayer - is what we need now the most. But it's not enough. I expected whole game, except may be competitive endgame content, to be like this. We need solo leveling, solo WQs, solo dailies, solo rares, etc. Majority of content is still designed around punishing players for not joining groups. It's either about exceeding difficutly or exceeding competition. This should be stopped. Player should be rewarded for playing with other players - not punished for playing alone. If player doesn't want to play with other players right now - then forcing him to do it is counter-productive.
    6) Normal flying forever. Finally accepting, that normal flying is integral part of game and leaving it alone. Devs still have this "You have to complete game properly first", that is still big slap in a face, because it's still their vision of "properly", not ours. They've stated, that their game is designed to be alt-friendly. One thing, they still don't understand, is that player, who play alts, has to replay the same content many times. At least level his alts to max level. Therefore content have to be replayable. Replayable means, that it shouldn't be annoying or tedious. One-time content can be annoying, but not replayable one. Making content annoying = hating alts. And unfortunately such mechanics, as aggro, combat and respawn are extremely annoying. Especially when overused by devs. They serve their purpose in dungeons and raids, so may be it's good idea to also use them in outdoor for educational purposes. But there should always be some way to avoid them, if player doesn't want to deal with them. Another thing to notice: is that not all players like such things, as stealth actions, jump puzzles, navigation puzzles, any puzzles. They become extremely annoyed, when they're forced to play such content. Flying is great compromise here too.
    LOL. Just... wow. You're out of your mind and have no idea what would make WoW a great game. I wholeheartedly disagree with almost every single point you just made. Blizz devs, if you're reading this PLEASE DO NOT listen to anything this guy suggests. He is certainly the vocal minority here. Solo content is great and all dude. But remember, you are playing an MMO - massively MULTIPLAYER role playing game. If you want to be able to do everything in a game solo with zero reliance on social interactions then go play skyrim or something. More than half of what makes an mmorpg fun and attractive for so many of us IS simply the fact that it is multiplayer and we can experience it together in real-time. Also if you think mechanics like AGGRO and COMBAT are annoying, I promise you man you are playing the wrong game entirely because those are the types of mechanics mmorpgs are built upon and they're not just going to disappear because you find it frustrating or annoying. LOL get real my guy!! Keep it up blizz ya'll did an amazing job with Dragonflight and it was definitely a step in the right direction for the game, in my humble and honest opinion.

    edit: ok you made 1 solid point. all progression with factions etc should be account wide. that is literally the only thing we agree on. yes it is rather frustrating to have all your hard work and progress voided simply because you wanted to play a different toon. But blizz is again, making steps in the right direction. Factions in dragonflight once you reach rank 10 and 20 respectively, you get a 100% and 200% bonus to those reputation gains on all other characters. I think that's a pretty fair system!
    Last edited by Doomulus; 2023-11-25 at 12:04 PM.

  4. #4
    Strongly disagree with a few.

    1. Just no, this would be terrible, it's already gone too far for my taste, I'd rather have some RPG feel left.
    2. Everything account wide, no, it's good in Emerald dream, and for my taste it's going too far in Titan. It took 2 days to get renown 20, end of patch. Gear would be a downright disaster. In a Moba? Sure, but MMOs are partially about character journeys to get stronger. That is emulated through gear and levels, and since we don't really have levels anymore, there is only gear left.
    3.Sure, that would be cool.
    4. No thanks, I'd rather we have easy and difficult areas like we used to.
    5. No thanks, I don't think solo content in wow can be made difficult enough without a timer, and the solo crowd seems to hate those.
    6. I'd rather the game had no flying at all, I think it ruins immersion, but the genie is out of the bottle and can't be put back in, so I guess it's okay we unlock it after we finish the campaign.

  5. #5
    1. This was already a mistake that dilutes what little flavor this game has left

    2. I have no issues with this

    3. I think this will be integrated in some way. There wouldn't be a point to creating a seperate character screen for this otherwise.

    3. Really not even sure what you're getting at here. Most Diablo games have a very static endgame similar to WoW where you pick how difficult you want content to be. And just like WoW higher difficulty equates to better rewards

    4. This is the dumbest take you've made so far. Coordinating with other is inherently harder than working by yourself. It should always have a higher reward. Otherwise you are actually discouraging high level players to group with others

    5. I stand corrected. This is actually your dumbest take. Dynamic flight is nothing but huge perk and actual engaging way to embrace the game. Easily the best addition in DF and in the past few expansions by a mile.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Yeah, Blizzard need time to develop things. But they have had lots of time already. And now at least they should state, that all features will be complete ASAP - not stay hanged in air for years.
    So you think Blizzard should wave a magic wand?

    They're working on most of these features or stuff like them. But they're not magic.

    How old are you that you're worried you'll be "a grandpa" by the time they're done? 60? 70? Or are you actually like 30, and just being ridiculous.

    Just getting mad and demanding them sooner won't help.

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    6) Normal flying forever. Finally accepting, that normal flying is integral part of game and leaving it alone. Devs still have this "You have to complete game properly first", that is still big slap in a face, because it's still their vision of "properly", not ours. They've stated, that their game is designed to be alt-friendly. One thing, they still don't understand, is that player, who play alts, has to replay the same content many times. At least level his alts to max level. Therefore content have to be replayable. Replayable means, that it shouldn't be annoying or tedious. One-time content can be annoying, but not replayable one. Making content annoying = hating alts. And unfortunately such mechanics, as aggro, combat and respawn are extremely annoying. Especially when overused by devs. They serve their purpose in dungeons and raids, so may be it's good idea to also use them in outdoor for educational purposes. But there should always be some way to avoid them, if player doesn't want to deal with them. Another thing to notice: is that not all players like such things, as stealth actions, jump puzzles, navigation puzzles, any puzzles. They become extremely annoyed, when they're forced to play such content. Flying is great compromise here too.
    This is just being unrealistic.

    Normal flying lost.

    Dragonflying won.

    I know that upsets some people here, but Blizzard did something really smart by creating Dragonflying/Dynamic Flying, which made the game more fun, but also made it involve actually playing the game. I get that you want the old style, but you're not going to get it, and now most of the people who were mad about there not being flying on day 1 are fine if there's Dragonflying.

    I'd suggest playing on Classic if this is that much of an issue to you.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  7. #7
    Not that again... If you don't like to play with people Then play something else. Idk buy a PS5 it's full of good ST games.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    1. This was already a mistake that dilutes what little flavor this game has left.
    The only people who genuinely believe this are posts on MMO-C. It's amazing.

    No-one who actually plays WoW thinks this.

    Doesn't matter how many people here grouse, it's been a stated goal for Blizzard for a long time, and they just keep taking steps towards it and will keep doing so. The idea that it promotes an "RPG feels" is laughably clueless, given that no pen-and-paper RPG and pretty much no videogame RPG has operated this way for 20+ years. Dungeons and Dragons, the industry leader, dropped that idea in 2001, with 3rd edition, before WoW even came out. Their extensive market research shows it's a dumb idea that only grognards claimed to enjoy, and even they didn't actually enjoy it, they just worked around it.

    We'll see all races and all classes whether you like it or not. Probably Druids last because they're the most work. Paladins will be next judging from the current storyline, and they have basically no race-specific artwork so it should be easy. Which will just leave what, Shamans? They're more work than Paladins, less than Druids, so they'll probably be after that. It's easy to come up with lore reasons to make them work, and it's not like Blizzard aren't doing that.

    Demon Hunters might never get other races, though I suspect they might get the Draenei/Broken eventually, but that's probably the only one.
    "A youtuber said so."

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyah View Post
    Not that again... If you don't like to play with people Then play something else. Idk buy a PS5 it's full of good ST games.
    It's not like they're even playing the game in the first place. They just sit here with ex-girlfriend syndrome and complain.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    The only people who genuinely believe this are posts on MMO-C. It's amazing.
    If you think this is just an MMO-C sentiment then you are very clueless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    No-one who actually plays WoW thinks this.
    *Currently plays. Even then I guarantee you are still wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Doesn't matter how many people here grouse, it's been a stated goal for Blizzard for a long time, and they just keep taking steps towards it and will keep doing so. The idea that it promotes an "RPG feels" is laughably clueless, given that no pen-and-paper RPG and pretty much no videogame RPG has operated this way for 20+ years. Dungeons and Dragons, the industry leader, dropped that idea in 2001, with 3rd edition, before WoW even came out. Their extensive market research shows it's a dumb idea that only grognards claimed to enjoy, and even they didn't actually enjoy it, they just worked around it.
    You're comparing apples and oranges here. D&D requires only an imagination for it take off while WoW is a video game bound by physical and techinological limititations. Even so, D&D is an ultra genertic fantasy of which there are hundreds of clones of nowadays. The goal shold not be be more generic but to be more unique

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    We'll see all races and all classes whether you like it or not. Probably Druids last because they're the most work. Paladins will be next judging from the current storyline, and they have basically no race-specific artwork so it should be easy. Which will just leave what, Shamans? They're more work than Paladins, less than Druids, so they'll probably be after that. It's easy to come up with lore reasons to make them work, and it's not like Blizzard aren't doing that.
    Possible but incredibly unlikely. There's something like 120+ models to create to give DH + Druid for everyone. The fact the brand new AR Earthen don't have Druid or DH pretty much proves this isn't a thing happening in TWW.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Possible but incredibly unlikely. There's something like 120+ models to create to give DH + Druid for everyone. The fact the brand new AR Earthen don't have Druid or DH pretty much proves this isn't a thing happening in TWW.
    LOL make your mind up!

    What are you even worried about if so?

    Like I said, I don't see Demon Hunter changing beyond perhaps adding Draenei/Broken (be surprised if Broken aren't added as a race in the next three expansions - most likely in either final patch TWW or Midnight). There's just not enough demand and their lore is specific and limited in a way that the others aren't. Though I guess I couldn't rule it out if a future expansion had them making more Demon Hunters again.

    Honestly I wouldn't be very surprised if they just did Paladin and Shaman soon - it's very easy to justify lore-wise - and then slowly added more Druids over many patches/expansions, and I suspect some races might never get Druid forms (c.f. Mechanognomes, Earthen).
    "A youtuber said so."

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I just want to create my own thread to stop posting it in other threads. TWW's design is step in right direction. But no features are truly complete and players have got tired of waiting for years. We don't get younger - only older. We don't want to be grandpas, when perfect Wow xpack will finally be released. Yeah, Blizzard need time to develop things. But they have had lots of time already. And now at least they should state, that all features will be complete ASAP - not stay hanged in air for years.

    These features are:
    1) All race-class combos. Because race, that identifies you, shouldn't restrict your class choice and you shouldn't be forced to play race, you don't like. Yeah, there are classes, that have scaling problems. These classes were accessible to very limited amount of races back then, so Blizzard decided to add unique features to them. Forms, totems, class mounts, etc. And now it prevents them from being added to more races, as it requires too much work. Solution? To do simple thing - to abandon "Unique features for every race" idea. For example to share all forms between all races and to gradually add new ones.
    2) Everything being account-wide. Because it's players, who play game, not characters. Game design shouldn't bind players to certain characters. Because in most cases players start to do one of two things: a) To avoid such content b) To avoid playing alts. Both are bad for game. Blizzard don't even understand, that making things like reps account-wide will add more incentive to complete them. Players don't want to work for things, if progress would be simply voided in case of switching to other character.
    3) Warbands being parties of alts. Because why should we implement some customizable/levelable NPCs, if we ALREADY have our alts? Something like solo-guild. With it's own name and tabard. We no longer would need solo banking guilds in this case. For now we level alts just for fun. How about making alts truly meaningful? It's my dream!
    4) Game-wide Diablo-like difficulty setting. It should be players' choice, when they want to make next step and switch to more challenging game - not devs' one. Too high difficutly - and game becomes slow, uncomfotable and even unplayable. Too low difficutly - and game becomes boring and starts lacking progression. But these "Too high" and "Too low" - are different for different players! Some players like to challenge themselves. But other players like to stay in easiers content for a little bit longer, because it's more comfortable for them. When devs force some average difficutly on players - 90% of players start to suffer. As devs might notice, causal players prefers content like old dungeon or raid runs. Simply because such content is chilling, relaxing and...rewarding! Problem is - current xpack doesn't provide such content, so casual players have nothing to do there. And it's big problem.
    5) Solo mode. Delves are ok and they're step in right direction, as solo content with optional multiplayer - is what we need now the most. But it's not enough. I expected whole game, except may be competitive endgame content, to be like this. We need solo leveling, solo WQs, solo dailies, solo rares, etc. Majority of content is still designed around punishing players for not joining groups. It's either about exceeding difficutly or exceeding competition. This should be stopped. Player should be rewarded for playing with other players - not punished for playing alone. If player doesn't want to play with other players right now - then forcing him to do it is counter-productive.
    6) Normal flying forever. Finally accepting, that normal flying is integral part of game and leaving it alone. Devs still have this "You have to complete game properly first", that is still big slap in a face, because it's still their vision of "properly", not ours. They've stated, that their game is designed to be alt-friendly. One thing, they still don't understand, is that player, who play alts, has to replay the same content many times. At least level his alts to max level. Therefore content have to be replayable. Replayable means, that it shouldn't be annoying or tedious. One-time content can be annoying, but not replayable one. Making content annoying = hating alts. And unfortunately such mechanics, as aggro, combat and respawn are extremely annoying. Especially when overused by devs. They serve their purpose in dungeons and raids, so may be it's good idea to also use them in outdoor for educational purposes. But there should always be some way to avoid them, if player doesn't want to deal with them. Another thing to notice: is that not all players like such things, as stealth actions, jump puzzles, navigation puzzles, any puzzles. They become extremely annoyed, when they're forced to play such content. Flying is great compromise here too.
    The biggest problem with you ideas is that the "facts" you base then on are made up or randomly interpreted.

  13. #13
    The argument of not opening up race/class combos is always 100% stupid.

    It's like you expect the world you play in to never evolve and be stuck in whatever specific timeframe you deam 'acceptable'.

    So what if currently no gnomes have ever practiced turning into a bear.
    So what if currently no pandas have ever passed the grueling demohunter initiation.
    So what if an undead has never fired a bow and arrow or petted a wolf.
    So what if [specific race] has never done [specific thing]...

    The lore or rp is litteraly built when these new combos come into existance. If you think this will destroy the rp... thats on you for not understanding the lore or not being able to rp outside your tiny little bubble.

    Litteraly every single race/class combo can be introduced with new lore that builds on existing lore.
    Its a very close-minded point of view to complain every time a new combo crops up... the races/classes evolve over time, their teachings expanding. The races arent racist... they arent restricting their learnings to anyone... they would welcome any new students.

    Its not like it even matters to 90% of the players who hide behind transmogs anyway. I wouldnt know if the demon hunter jumping at me is secretly a panda anymore than I would care.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    So what if currently no pandas have ever passed the grueling demohunter initiation.
    Not passed. Survived. Illidan could barely even get it to work on blood elves. The rest just flat-out died.

    That's a pretty serious limitation.

    And that's kinda the problem here: There are answers to some of these what-ifs. Some of the class combinations require retcons. It's not racism to not teach you something that would literally kill you.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    The only people who genuinely believe this are posts on MMO-C. It's amazing.

    No-one who actually plays WoW thinks this.
    I am one of those that allowing every race to be every class erodes the RPG feeling of this game.

    And yes, I still play the game.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Not passed. Survived. Illidan could barely even get it to work on blood elves. The rest just flat-out died.

    That's a pretty serious limitation.

    And that's kinda the problem here: There are answers to some of these what-ifs. Some of the class combinations require retcons. It's not racism to not teach you something that would literally kill you.
    But are elves special? The only ones who "could" survive it?
    Or were they simply the only ones available at the time.
    Or the only ones Illidan deemed "worthy"


    Granted, i havent delved too far into it, but as far as I know, theres no real reason other races cant be demon hunters, other than 'thats not how we did it back in my day'

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I am one of those that allowing every race to be every class erodes the RPG feeling of this game.

    And yes, I still play the game.
    I suspect that all 26 of you who feel this way are probably going to get "out voted", so to speak.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    But are elves special? The only ones who "could" survive it?
    Or were they simply the only ones available at the time.
    Or the only ones Illidan deemed "worthy"


    Granted, i havent delved too far into it, but as far as I know, theres no real reason other races cant be demon hunters, other than 'thats not how we did it back in my day'
    The only ones that survived. Everybody else that tried died, and even most elves that tried did. The most likely other race to have it work on would be trolls, since they're also close relatives. But that gives you at most 4 new DH races, and 3 of those would be Horde.

    The process was developed for Night Elves and works worse the further you get away from them. That's the actual lore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I suspect that all 26 of you who feel this way are probably going to get "out voted", so to speak.
    And i suspect the group that feels strongly the other way isn't actually significantly larger.

  19. #19
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    Never agreed on point 1 until they added demon hunter, now it's the feature I want in WoW the most.

  20. #20
    I strongly agree with point 2 from your list.

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