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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    But we're not just looking at +18 but the entire track from +2 all the way up to +20. In short, a non-timer based version of M+ is hands down easier than the equivalent level dungeon in M+

    A +2 non-timer is easier than a +2 with timer all the way to a +20 non-timer is easier than a +20 with timer. Therefore, the non-timer version of that keystone should reward lower loot because it's easier.

    To put it into context, Heroic Raid is easier than Mythic Raid on the same encounter basis (i.e. Heroic Gnarlroot vs Mythic Gnarlroot) and so thus mythic yields better loot than the heroic encounter. And there the difference is 13 item levels which is the same as 1 track lower. This difference is enough to discourage players from cheesing the system to get better loot without the equal amount of effort/challenged faced.



    But see here you're missing one of the facets of M+, the TIMER is part of the difficulty as you have a finite amount of resources to achieve the goal. Not just time itself but also the amount of CDs you're able to use (and use effectively) against the dungeon.
    Yes, that's what I said.
    We are saying the same thing.
    A non-timed version would be easier, given no timer as an added layer of challenge, and thus it rewards a full track lower, including the in-dungeon drops at the end, the weekly GV, and the quantity of crests and flightstones.
    It is overall the less efficient way to gather gear and resources given the lower quality/quantity, so the high end avoids it and sticks with the more challenging versions.
    The remainder will have a choice to not have the timer affix and instead get lesser rewards, yet can still progress through M+ and experience all of the cycling affixes, mob and boss hp/damage increases, and face those challenges without their keys bricking into oblivion.
    the key is that they still have to finish the dungeon; dropping partway and abandoning it rewards nothing, so it's not free loot, it's not equivalent to the higher challenge, it's just another mode for people to consume small group content.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    That works both ways mate, i would only want to run keys for my own personal gear to hell with you lot. You can incentivize all you very well want to but the fact remains we will min/max the fun out of the game given the current landscape what do you think this would cause? Its better to have a random element in the weekly vault otherwise you create the situation i detailed. And 3 choices for the specific dungeon might actually speed up gearing now that i think about it.
    You can do whatever you want, what you do doesn't dictate how the whole ecosystem works. As long as there is a big enough group of people incentivized to run a varied pool of dungeons, all is fine. Linking the number of vault slots to the number of different dungeons ran would for sure give plenty of people a reason good enough to run different dungeons.

    Also, I don't think you understood what I wrote above. There would be no option to have 3 choices from a specific dungeon - doing only 1 specific dungeon would not give you even 1 vault slot. It's 1 slot for 2 different dungeons, 2 slots for 4 and 3 slots for 6. To have three choices, you'd need to do 6 different dungeons.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    You can do whatever you want, what you do doesn't dictate how the whole ecosystem works. As long as there is a big enough group of people incentivized to run a varied pool of dungeons, all is fine. Linking the number of vault slots to the number of different dungeons ran would for sure give plenty of people a reason good enough to run different dungeons.

    Also, I don't think you understood what I wrote above. There would be no option to have 3 choices from a specific dungeon - doing only 1 specific dungeon would not give you even 1 vault slot. It's 1 slot for 2 different dungeons, 2 slots for 4 and 3 slots for 6. To have three choices, you'd need to do 6 different dungeons.
    I would follow my BIS list and just do those dungeons since i am loot locked and find the best chance or odds to accomplish that which in this case as i got upgrades i would start turning off specific dungeons since i dont want that trash to filter in my vault slots. The way the system is now is not broken i do not understand wanting to mess with the best system WoW has ever introduced. How about they just give currency and boom we buy what we want off a vender and put an expiration date on the content? That would be the very best way forward honestly so we know when we are done and move on to another game?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    I would follow my BIS list and just do those dungeons since i am loot locked and find the best chance or odds to accomplish that which in this case as i got upgrades i would start turning off specific dungeons since i dont want that trash to filter in my vault slots.
    You seem to assume that every player's BIS list would be exactly the same. That's obviously false, as different secondary stats have different value for different specs (not to mention trinkets, weapons etc.), so there should be plenty of desirable items in any given dungeon. Mate, the world doesn't revolve around you. Just for a second, drop this "Huh, I don't give a fuck about anybody else!" tough act and try to think from a bit broader perspective. What you do is irrelevant; what's important is a healthy ecosystem where people are incentivized to run different dungeons.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    You seem to assume that every player's BIS list would be exactly the same. That's obviously false, as different secondary stats have different value for different specs (not to mention trinkets, weapons etc.), so there should be plenty of desirable items in any given dungeon. Mate, the world doesn't revolve around you. Just for a second, drop this "Huh, I don't give a fuck about anybody else!" tough act and try to think from a bit broader perspective. What you do is irrelevant; what's important is a healthy ecosystem where people are incentivized to run different dungeons.
    I do not care about anyone else outside of my mates and which i dont even raid with them either. I join a new guild every season since again once i complete my own altho selfish goals i just leave the game this is the 3rd mythic raiding guild i have been apart of this expansion since they tend to look down at you once you just unsub once content is cleared once. Another thing is i swap my main every season to keep the game fresh to begin with ( that has to have a tank spec since i enjoy m+ but not waiting ). Trust me its not an act my partner even says i am a cunt but again i look at everything in the financial lens since thats what my career taught me to think like. Some say incentivize i say bribe because if its not a part of power i do not bother with the activity because outside of Raids and dungeons not much in wow excites me or gives me a reason to care.

    Your also missing the point that while i heal in a raid setting i open my vault as a brewmaster because again guess why that is? Its not for my raid mates. Now that works for the players who look at an MMO as some kind of long form game but when you only plan on playing for no more then 5 weeks of a patch it comes down to beating content the fastest and moving on.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by jeezusisacasual View Post
    Trust me its not an act my partner even says i am a cunt but again i look at everything in the financial lens since thats what my career taught me to think like. Some say incentivize i say bribe because if its not a part of power i do not bother with the activity because outside of Raids and dungeons not much in wow excites me or gives me a reason to care.
    Than I honestly don't understand what you're even doing in this conversation... Continue with your selfish act - nobody cares about it in the current system and nobody will care about it in any future system. But hey, at least it's nice of you to underline again and again how irrelevant your behaviour is to anyone else.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    If keys didn't downgrade you would see degenerate behavior of trying the same key over and over again until mistakes are ironed out. It would completely ruin the higher end aspect of M+.

    They could implement this for lower keys and it would be fine imo, but definitely not for higher ones.
    What you say is literally happening right now. People bash their heads against a certain key at a certain level to get more score. Like,say,you have all 25+ timed and the last 24 you have is Atal. The only difference in this case is that you "iron out " mistakes and tryhard until you succeed at the expense of other people keys downgrading while you do it.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Tortuga234 View Post
    What you say is literally happening right now.
    Wrong, and your post just sounds like you don't even understand my post and shouldn't be replying to you.

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