We will probably see a new Class during the Worldsoul Saga

[username993720]

What are you even talking about? My concept doesn't raise dead at all.

What is this discussion about here? Are you talking about here, my concept or something else entirely?

I'm talking about Bwonsamdi. He's the Loa of Death.
All Loas punish or bless. You can't attribute it just to him. You need him to specialize in his area of expertise: the dead.

?

You would call Zul'jin a Warrior? I disagree

Yes.
An Axethrower.
He's, definitely, not a Shadow Hunter.

The Shaman in WC3 wasn't a healer. Neither was the Farseer. Restoration spec doesn't even exist from the original source, as the WC3 Shamans weren't healers at all.

Do you know where Orcs got their healing from? Witchdoctors and Shadow Hunters

So if you want to take out what doesn't belong and give it to Shadow Hunters, you're asking to remove the entire Restoration spec. Totems and all.

Water doesn't belong in the Shadow Hunter. Neither do ancestral spirits. Totems are common in all specs, not just resto.

[Triceron]

I'm talking about Bwonsamdi. He's the Loa of Death.
All Loas punish or bless. You can't attribute it just to him. You need him to specialize in his area of expertise: the dead.

What does this have to do with my concept?

You are asking about things that aren't in my concept, and you're not asking questions that would reflect a sensible answer.

Are you asking what abilities I have planned that would invoke Bwonsamdi'a powers? Because I honestly don't know how to answer your questions about raising dead and specializing in his area of expertise, when I never presented Bwonsamdi in my examples to you. You even accused me of wanting to summon him when it isn't in my concept, so I need you to clarify what you actually are talking about.

Yes.
An Axethrower.
He's, definitely, not a Shadow Hunter.

They throw Glaives. Not axes.

Zul'jin also throws glaives. That is what Guillotine ability is.

Water doesn't belong in the Shadow Hunter. Neither do ancestral spirits. Totems are common in all specs, not just resto.

Which is why I don't think they need it at all.

It seems you don't want to talk about my concept, you're just talking over it and pushing your own idea of what you want it to be. If you're interested in badfaith and gatekeeping, I think you should heed Auculd's warning. Your arguments here almost have no relevance to the concept I've presented here.

[Eldryth]

I'm talking about Bwonsamdi. He's the Loa of Death.
All Loas punish or bless. You can't attribute it just to him. You need him to specialize in his area of expertise: the dead.

Bwonsamdi was the Loa of Death, but he considers Undead to be abominations and wants nothing to do with them (at least in current lore- he did summon some zombies in an old removed event but that is very out-of-character after BFA fleshed him out more). He just collects the souls of the dead and gains power from having them.

And Shaman did absolutely get their healing (and Hex, and some totems...) from Shadow Hunter. It also changed heavily over time- I think Shaman heals were only changed to use water-based animations during Legion, iirc. If Shadow Hunter is ever added, they should be able to heal using Spirit, and the appearance should be based around what Shaman heals used to look like.

[username993720]

What does this have to do with my concept?

You are asking about things that aren't in my concept, and you're not asking questions that would reflect a sensible answer.

Are you asking what abilities I have planned that would invoke Bwonsamdi'a powers? Because I honestly don't know how to answer your questions about raising dead and specializing in his area of expertise, when I never presented Bwonsamdi in my examples to you. You even accused me of wanting to summon him when it isn't in my concept, so I need you to clarify what you actually are talking about.

I'm saying Bwonsamdi is more than just a bestower of boons and curses. Your concept doesn't utilize him to the fullest.

They throw Glaives. Not axes.

Zul'jin also throws glaives. That is what Guillotine ability is.

Guillotine
70 Mana Cooldown: 40 seconds
Zul'jin launches a massive axe into the air that drops on the targeted area, dealing 330 damage plus bonus damage the lower his Health is.

Which is why I don't think they need it at all.

It seems you don't want to talk about my concept, you're just talking over it and pushing your own idea of what you want it to be. If you're interested in badfaith and gatekeeping, I think you should heed Auculd's warning. Your arguments here almost have no relevance to the concept I've presented here.

Aucald talked about dismissing class ideas.
What i'm presenting is an addition to your lacking concept.
Shadow Hunters cannot do without a healing theme. That is a core aspect of the class and of Spirit. What you and Teriz are doing is pushing throwing to the maximum, to the point of dedicating multiple specs for it, while completely ignoring the main theme of healing.

Bwonsamdi was the Loa of Death, but he considers Undead to be abominations and wants nothing to do with them (at least in current lore- he did summon some zombies in an old removed event but that is very out-of-character after BFA fleshed him out more). He just collects the souls of the dead and gains power from having them.

I'm aware of his disgust. He still uses them.

And Shaman did absolutely get their healing (and Hex, and some totems...) from Shadow Hunter. It also changed heavily over time- I think Shaman heals were only changed to use water-based animations during Legion, iirc. If Shadow Hunter is ever added, they should be able to heal using Spirit, and the appearance should be based around what Shaman heals used to look like.

Yes, until they realized the visuals overlap with that of Druids. So, to differentiate it from the Druids' plant-based heals, they changed it to water.

The Shadow Hunter heals should be based around Chain Heal's appearance, which was unique among the Shaman heals back in vanilla (and what Shadow Hunters used in WC3 despite it being called healing wave). It mixes both holy and nature visuals, i guess to represent spirit, which is why it has both golden and verdant colors.

[Triceron]

I'm saying Bwonsamdi is more than just a bestower of boons and curses. Your concept doesn't utilize him to the fullest.

It doesn't need to. He's not the only Loa that Shadow Hunters beckon.

Guillotine
70 Mana Cooldown: 40 seconds
Zul'jin launches a massive axe into the air that drops on the targeted area, dealing 330 damage plus bonus damage the lower his Health is.

It works fine if adapted as a glaive for Shadow Hunters.

Aucald talked about dismissing class ideas.
What i'm presenting is an addition to your lacking concept.
Shadow Hunters cannot do without a healing theme. That is a core aspect of the class and of Spirit. What you and Teriz are doing is pushing throwing to the maximum, to the point of dedicating multiple specs for it, while completely ignoring the main theme of healing.

It's my concept. It doesn't have to meet your expectations.

You can feel free to disagree with the concept, I respect that you want a healing representation. I don't think it's necessary though, since a Spellcaster DPS /Support DPS/ Healing Spec build for a Shadow Hunter would be repeating what we already got with Evokers. I think the concept is solid enough to explore three different themes of DPS instead.

This is the last I'll say on the subject, since I'm not interested in going in circles about how much you want Shaman spells taken out for the sake of it.

[username993720]

It doesn't need to. He's not the only Loa that Shadow Hunters beckon.

He's the most prominent Loa. I'd say right up there with Gonk, Shirvallah and Hakkar.

It works fine if adapted as a glaive for Shadow Hunters.

Perhaps.
Doesn't make him a Shadow Hunter, though. Or the Shadow Hunter into a Berserker.

It's my concept. It doesn't have to meet your expectations.

You can feel free to disagree with the concept, I respect that you want a healing representation. I don't think it's necessary though, since a Spellcaster DPS /Support DPS/ Healing Spec build for a Shadow Hunter would be repeating what we already got with Evokers. I think the concept is solid enough to explore three different themes of DPS instead.

This is the last I'll say on the subject, since I'm not interested in going in circles about how much you want Shaman spells taken out for the sake of it.

And 3 DPS is not repetitive?
I never talked about a support spec. Maybe they could try to mix it with the healing instead of the expected DPS.
You know, they could leave the shaman as is. DH never took Evasion, Immolate and Mana Burn from the Rogue, Warlock and Priest.

[Enrif]

So, I still think that a Void class with Midnight seems like the most likely class addition by far. I've always called it Void Hunter and focused on the idea of a spell archer because of Alleria (and because Blizzard used that name for her), but whether or not they use Void Hunter as the class name, I only really see one spec taking the magic archery route, so I've been taking a look at the Shadowguard and Void Elf NPCs we've seen- as well as the Void weapons from the Harbinger questline- to think about what else they could have.

One thing that stands out as incredibly likely is a melee DPS spec. There's a ton of Shadowguard Ethereals that fight that way, either with dual-wielded fist weapons or a single one-handed sword. Maybe call it Phaseblade (taken from some Shadowguard NPCs, just felt like the best fit out of them imo)?

As for a third spec... a caster is an option, since there are plenty of Shadowguard and Riftwalker casters and one of the skins you get from the Harbinger questchain was a Void offhand... but right now they mostly just spam Voidweavers' new Void Bolt. And while that could easily be a placeholder since it wouldn't be fleshed out for another expansion, another option stands out as being better for role variety: Riftblade. Right now these are Void Elf NPCs that use either sword/shields or two-handed swords, and I can see it being fleshed out as a tank spec. Either 1H/Shield or 2H would work, but personally I feel like 1H/Shield would be the better fit, and we got a shield but no 2H with the Void weapons.

Perhaps it would even be best to make "Void Hunter" a spec or Hero Spec name and call the class itself something else. Maybe "Riftwalker"? They're an existing group of Void Elves who learned to control the Void to protect Azeroth, and while they are Void Elf-specific right now, Locus Walker seems to be in charge (or at least has very heavy influence) and I can see him training other races to join to respond to Xal'atath and Dimensius.

As for their armor, maybe they could wear cloth and have an armor class modifier in their melee/tank specs to make them more durable, like with my Runemaster suggestion? Alleria's armor looks more like cloth than anything else, and it would definitely make them unique to have melee and tank specs wearing cloth.

(Also, as a side note, I'd love for this to come with playable Ethereals as well. They've been the race I've wanted to play the most since they were first introduced and this feels like a great time to add them).

This goes heavily into to Ethereal theme, more so then void i would say. We have seen ethereals not only as void users, but also as arcane users with the "nice" ethereals of the Consortium and the Protectorate. So, i would think of a arcane flavor to that class in addition to void. This would also harken back to the void elves origin as high/blood elves, as masters of the arcane. Now, if i give everything you said, in addition to void also a arcane spin we got: Spellbow(ranged weapon), Spellbreaker(tank), Spellslinger (ranged magic)? A classic archetype, and inherently part of many depictions of elves, especially the highly magical high elf types.

[Eldryth]

This goes heavily into to Ethereal theme, more so then void i would say. We have seen ethereals not only as void users, but also as arcane users with the "nice" ethereals of the Consortium and the Protectorate. So, i would think of a arcane flavor to that class in addition to void. This would also harken back to the void elves origin as high/blood elves, as masters of the arcane. Now, if i give everything you said, in addition to void also a arcane spin we got: Spellbow(ranged weapon), Spellbreaker(tank), Spellslinger (ranged magic)? A classic archetype, and inherently part of many depictions of elves, especially the highly magical high elf types.

The only Ethereals I looked at were the Shadowguard- the ones that fully fell to and embraced the Void (on further thought, the upcoming Nexus Princess boss also fits firmly into this role as a Void assassin). They are fully Void-focused. And they ultimately only influenced the melee DPS spec I suggested.

Granted, I absolutely wouldn't be against an Elven/Arcane class either (though I'd prefer Warden if they go that kind of route, and Spellslinger sounds like it would feel like it has more in common with Mages than the rest of the class even if it weren't already a Hero Spec), but I still feel like Cosmic Void is something sorely lacking from the existing class options (besides the couple animations Voidweaver adds which ultimately doesn't fundamentally change the specs from Shadow to true Void), and Midnight seems like the best chance to address that. I don't really see anything fitting Midnight's theme better than the Void itself either. I don't really expect another good opportunity any time soon after this (seemingly) final war with the Void.

[Enrif]

The only Ethereals I looked at were the Shadowguard- the ones that fully fell to and embraced the Void (on further thought, the upcoming Nexus Princess boss also fits firmly into this role as a Void assassin). They are fully Void-focused. And they ultimately only influenced the melee DPS spec I suggested.

Granted, I absolutely wouldn't be against an Elven/Arcane class either (though I'd prefer Warden if they go that kind of route, and Spellslinger sounds like it would feel like it has more in common with Mages than the rest of the class even if it weren't already a Hero Spec), but I still feel like Cosmic Void is something sorely lacking from the existing class options (besides the couple animations Voidweaver adds which ultimately doesn't fundamentally change the specs from Shadow to true Void), and Midnight seems like the best chance to address that. I don't really expect another good opportunity any time soon after this (seemingly) final war with the Void.

Oh, for certain a class will get a heavy coat of void powers. But i can see it being a bit diversified with its powers. We have a few known concepts of cosmic void: black holes, gravity, space, stars, time. Arcane has a some overlap with this too. Especially on the stars and times thing. And besides the arcane mage, we don't have any representation of arcane magic in great detail, similar to shadow priests.

So, i could see a class that does both, void and arcane. Probably with a heavier sway towards void. And the combined damage type of Spellshadow sounds awesome too.

[Ielenia]

Problem is Blizzard associated the color red with harmful effects. That's why the Monk never got a Chi-Ji healing spec.

And then Blizzard implemented the Venthyr covenant where their class abilities, including healing ones, are all red themed.

As for the rest, I'm done discussing things with someone who defends the normalization of negative stereotypes and harmful misrepresentations.

[Eldryth]

Thought of one more possibility for Midnight, based on a hanging plot thread that is very likely to be important there.

While I am strongly against excessively limiting race options where it's not completely necessary, and I didn't like Dracthyr's transmog limitations, I do think that it was, in general, a great approach to adding stuff that is too distinct to work like standard classes and races. So, with that in mind... what if Naga are added as another combined Hero Class/Race?

They may not be as obviously relevant as the Void from the short description we got at Blizzcon, but the Naga are related to elves and could fit into their unification story, and we did get that Song of the Depths in Dragonflight all but stating that Azshara plans to make her move after Xal'atath finishes whatever she's doing in TWW. Most speculation I've seen about that is about her joining the Void and being a mid-tier boss yet again, though personally I think that would be a horrible fit for her character and she should just be a third party exploiting the situation to expand her own power before getting her own expansion later, possibly with us working with her out of necessity for now. Though, whether she's an antagonist, ally, or other, if she turns out to be a major player with Midnight's full reveal, it could be a great opportunity to finally add playable Naga (something that Chris Metzen, along with many players, has always wanted).

Storywise they could either be immediate defectors or Azshara's forces who ally with us (and defect to the Alliance/Horde later when she inevitably turns on us), depending on the role Azshara plays. The lack of legs is less of an issue now that we have Dracthyr as precedent showing that they could just pants be invisible, possibly with an elven transformation to let you show off transmog (like Dracthyr had Visage).

As for specs, caster DPS and tank both seem like obvious choices (based on Sea Witches and Myrmidons respectively). As for a third... maybe a midranged/melee spec that fights with Tridents (spears), with some attacks involving throwing them (might be influenced by the Shadow Hunter throwing spec speculation, but it feels fitting here too). Maybe mail or plate for the armor class, it looks like both kinds of Naga wear some kind of metal armor from my brief look.

There is one glaring issue I see though, which they'd probably have to find a way to do away with somehow before making them playable in any form- the extreme sexual dimorphism. The appearances are one thing, but I'm pretty sure male Naga have always been portrayed as less intelligent, and never use magic. They wouldn't be able to use the same specs. It's not impossible to deal with- they could simply be changed by the current conflict like the Evolved Nerubians, resulting in more intelligent males.

Alternatively, I guess they could leave male Naga out entirely (because the females have more to work with and are definitely more iconic) and have it be the first single-gender race. In that case, Myrmidon tanks would be less fitting, so I'd probably swap the specs to Sea Witch for caster DPS, Battlemaiden for the trident spec I mentioned, and maybe a healer or support caster?

[Enrif]

i proposed that naga are a strong possibility for midnight story relevancy. And i think a class based on the naga sea witch is a possibility. Sea Witches use bows too, but are also casters, and given the seemingly strong void connection we might see in midnight (see "song of the depths") it is not out of the question. And with the nerubians we see that void "evolution" can make them more humanoid, so a more humanoid naga, one with legs could be possible. I could actually see the worgen model be ideal for evolved naga with legs

[Eldryth]

I'd rather they don't lose their classic tails entirely like that, but it could make for a good alternate form to show off transmog like Dracthyr's Visage. I'd probably prefer a form like that rather than the Elven transformation I suggested- I thought of it as using an illusion to mimic their original form, but something more distinct from Visages would be better.

[Enrif]

I'd rather they don't lose their classic tails entirely like that, but it could make for a good alternate form to show off transmog like Dracthyr's Visage. I'd probably prefer a form like that rather than the Elven transformation I suggested- I thought of it as using an illusion to mimic their original form, but something more distinct from Visages would be better.

I think naga shouldn't get a elven form. Their scaly form is good enough and Naga already can use armor for the chest and shoulders. So there shouldn't be much work to make them work with all armor. Especially if they use the worgen rig, as they share quite a loot of shape language in the upper body. Both have 3 fingers and a thumb, mala naga and worgen have elongated snouts, and the mane and head fins are in the same area. For the serpent tail, perhaps a special "mount" like worgen have a "ground mount" mode, but for naga being a "water mount"?

[Steampunkette]

Naga as a race in Midnight in order to play into the "Uniting the Elven Lines" thing could be cool.

But I'd kind of expect them to get a pretty drastic redesign. MAYBE they can keep the snake tail, but their upper bodies are going to be revamped to look more like Azshara if they're made playable.



Less fins, far more human, maybe a couple ridges to imply they're "Fishy".

If they have a big head fin option it's basically going to be hair.

[Enrif]

Naga as a race in Midnight in order to play into the "Uniting the Elven Lines" thing could be cool.

But I'd kind of expect them to get a pretty drastic redesign. MAYBE they can keep the snake tail, but their upper bodies are going to be revamped to look more like Azshara if they're made playable.

Less fins, far more human, maybe a couple ridges to imply they're "Fishy".

If they have a big head fin option it's basically going to be hair.

I don't think they need a big redesign. As in my mockup shown above, they share a lot of their shape with worgen that they could easily be modeled with their rig. And of all the races that didn't yet had a new allied race that uses their shame rig, we have worgen, undead, pandaren and dracthyr left (technically also humans and trolls, since the KT and Z-trolls use their own unique rigs, except for female z-trolls). And since we saw with the vulpera using the goblin rig, it is not past blizzard to use the same rig for a race that isn't just a variation. And, of all the rigs left, worgen was always the odd one out to what race could use it. Some thought Saberon, or some night elf worgen variant. But Naga fit surprisingly well with that rig too if you give them digitigrade legs, like we saw they can have from the naga brutes. The upper body can be completely the same they are known to have (well, only on pair of arms for the females)

[Ielenia]

I could actually see the worgen model be ideal for evolved naga with legs

I speak only for myself, but a "naga with legs" would completely kill the appeal of the race for me. If I am to play a naga, I'll want them to slither on the ground like they normally do.

[Enrif]

I speak only for myself, but a "naga with legs" would completely kill the appeal of the race for me. If I am to play a naga, I'll want them to slither on the ground like they normally do.

knowing blizzard: High Elves for the Allaince, but they are Void. Mechagnome, but they are only partially mechanical. Mag'har, but they are from a alternate timeline. Dragonpeople, but Drycthyr instead of Drakonids.

It would be perfectly within blizzards way to give us what we asked for, but different.

[Ielenia]

knowing blizzard: High Elves for the Allaince, but they are Void. Mechagnome, but they are only partially mechanical. Mag'har, but they are from a alternate timeline. Dragonpeople, but Drycthyr instead of Drakonids.

It would be perfectly within blizzards way to give us what we asked for, but different.

Yeah, but "humanoid naga" would not be at all what we're asking for. Void elves was already pushing the envelope too far considering they're blood elves, not high elves.

"Humanoid naga" would be like giving the people who wanted 'upright orcs' an allied race of humans who got their skin tinted green due to fel exposure.

[Enrif]

Yeah, but "humanoid naga" would not be at all what we're asking for. Void elves was already pushing the envelope too far considering they're blood elves, not high elves.

"Humanoid naga" would be like giving the people who wanted 'upright orcs' an allied race of humans who got their skin tinted green due to fel exposure.

Well, did we get Draknoids or did we get a winged sleek dragonkin that is different? And Naga having alternative to snake tails is already a thing. Making a legged version the playable one (with a tailed form as a water mount) is not that far fetched.