We will probably see a new Class during the Worldsoul Saga

[pacotaco]

I see your point and I do believe that the examples of classes you mentioned CAN be introduced with a Void twist.

Oh, I agree. Spellblade could be a class and Spellbreak and Riftwalker as Hero Specs.

[username993720]

I'm wondering... what kind of staple fantasy RPG, mythological archetypes, are missing from the game besides the Japanese Samurai, the Gothic Vampire Slayer\Witch Hunter, the Brilliant Inventor, the Mad Scientist, the Exotic Witch Doctor, and the Wandering Minstrel?

[Enrif]

I'm wondering... what kind of staple fantasy RPG, mythological archetypes, are missing from the game besides the Japanese Samurai, the Gothic Vampire Slayer\Witch Hunter, the Brilliant Inventor, the Mad Scientist, the Exotic Witch Doctor, and the Wandering Minstrel?

Psionic based classes like a Jedi or Mind Flayer, Mystical Ninjas that have elemental powers, Spellblades, Dark Knights (different to Death Knights)

[username993720]

Psionic based classes like a Jedi or Mind Flayer

Jedi is a sci-fi character. Mind flayer is a Shadow Priest.

Mystical Ninjas that have elemental powers,

I don't know about elemental powers, but Subtlety Rogues are ninjas. And Shamans possess mastery over the elements.

Spellblades

In the other thread, i've mentioned how they are part of Mage lore.

Dark Knights (different to Death Knights)

How? That's, literally, what a Death Knight is.

[Allarielle]

I'm wondering... what kind of staple fantasy RPG, mythological archetypes, are missing from the game besides the Japanese Samurai, the Gothic Vampire Slayer\Witch Hunter, the Brilliant Inventor, the Mad Scientist, the Exotic Witch Doctor, and the Wandering Minstrel?

The Enchanter who enchants objects to do their bidding. The evil Witch who brews poisons and hexes people. The good Witch who uses ancient rites and fey rituals to heal and cleanse the world of evil. The Illusionist. The Courier (no idea how that could work, haha). The Slingshot user. The Cannoneer. The Oracle. The Cleric (melee priest). The sword-riding, Dao-seeking cultivator. The Drummer (Kodo Beasts from Wc3) or Signifier (person who waves flags around to direct troops). The gunslinging Cowboy/Sheriff. The black-bellied doctor who uses medicines and acupuncture to disable their enemies. The rain/fire/elemental dancer. The Mesmer (Hypnotist/Siren). The Petrifier (Cyclops/Gorgon/Basilisk). The Weather Mage (Shaman sortof fits the bill... but not really). The Plant Mage (fits just fine with Druid, but Druid doesn't have a spec for it). The Field Medic (healer via pills/bandages/injections). The Commander (Warrior has some skills for this). The Javelin thrower (or axe thrower).

Edit: Psionic based classes like a Jedi or Mind Flayer > Jedi is a sci-fi character. Mind flayer is a Shadow Priest. > Those are two examples of Psions, but Psion as a fantasy archetype is much broader than just mind control.

[username993720]

The Enchanter who enchants objects to do their bidding.

Can't see Enchanting becoming practicle.

The evil Witch who brews poisons and hexes people.

I said, Witch Doctor (just european).

The good Witch who uses ancient rites and fey rituals to heal and cleanse the world of evil.

You mean a fairy?

The Illusionist.

Part of the Arcane Mage identity.

The Slingshot user.

Quite a basic weapon. Who can you think of other than David?

The Cannoneer.

Outlaw Rogue.

The Oracle.

A Priest Hero talent.

The Cleric (melee priest).

You mean Monk. Should be a Priest spec, if you ask me.

The sword-riding

What is that?

Dao-seeking cultivator.

And that?

The Drummer (Kodo Beasts from Wc3)

Should be a racial aspect of the Bard.

or Signifier (person who waves flags around to direct troops).

Don't think that can be a class.

The gunslinging Cowboy/Sheriff.

I agree with you here. Though, i'm wondering if it's too modern or if it shares similarities with the Vampire Slayer (gunslinging). Maybe we should just call them bounty hunters.

The black-bellied doctor who uses medicines and acupuncture to disable their enemies.

Isn't that part of the Monk class?

The rain/fire/elemental dancer.

Shaman?

The Mesmer (Hypnotist/Siren).

A mesmer in Guild Wars is very much an illusionist. The Siren is a hydromancer. As for hypnotism, i'd consider it mind manipulation.

The Petrifier (Cyclops/Gorgon/Basilisk).

That's more of a creature than a class.

The Plant Mage (fits just fine with Druid, but Druid doesn't have a spec for it).

I thought of something like that for the Hunter. Before Hero Talents were a thing, i called it prestige classes. They were supposed to be merely cosmetic. It would summon plants instead of beasts and would be based on the Dryad (Lunara).

The Field Medic (healer via pills/bandages/injections).

Alchemist?
Bandages would require melee range and channeled abilities (prone to interruption).

The Javelin thrower (or axe thrower).

Should be part of the Survival Hunter.
Already part of the Warrior.

Edit: Psionic based classes like a Jedi or Mind Flayer > Jedi is a sci-fi character. Mind flayer is a Shadow Priest. > Those are two examples of Psions, but Psion as a fantasy archetype is much broader than just mind control.

Do explain.

[Allarielle]

Do explain.

To be honest, I can't really be bothered. You asked an open ended question about what fantasy staples are missing from the game. You received a large number of perfectly reasonable answers, but instead of considering them and why the people who posted them considered them missing from the game, you chose to shoot them down. If you don't know what a Psion is, you can google it. If you don't know what a cultivator is, you can google it. If you don't understand how a Signifier could be a class, you can use your imagination. If you don't understand how Enchanter can be a practical class, do you even play RPGs? Enchanter was literally part of the Holy Trinity back in Everquest. As for the Cannoneer, Mystical Ninja, Dark Knight, or Javellin/Axe Thrower, if you don't understand how they differ from the classes you mentioned, google image search can help. A forum is a place for discussion - if you're not here in good faith, there's no need to engage.

[pacotaco]

To be honest, I can't really be bothered. You asked an open ended question about what fantasy staples are missing from the game. You received a large number of perfectly reasonable answers, but instead of considering them and why the people who posted them considered them missing from the game, you chose to shoot them down. If you don't know what a Psion is, you can google it. If you don't know what a cultivator is, you can google it. If you don't understand how a Signifier could be a class, you can use your imagination. If you don't understand how Enchanter can be a practical class, do you even play RPGs? Enchanter was literally part of the Holy Trinity back in Everquest. As for the Cannoneer, Mystical Ninja, Dark Knight, or Javellin/Axe Thrower, if you don't understand how they differ from the classes you mentioned, google image search can help. A forum is a place for discussion - if you're not here in good faith, there's no need to engage.

- The problem with Psion is that in WoW, psychic powers are usually tied to the Void, there are no previous instances of it being a thing on its own, so it would most likely be part of a melee Void class.
- I also don't know what is a Dao-seeking cultivator is. The only thing I've found in google is like a meditating monk.

[Golden Yak]

Hmm, a Psionic class might be cool if they build on more elements of sci-fi and alien powers associated with the Great Dark Beyond. Kind've like the concepts in the current Hearthstone expansion.

Wildstar had a psionic class, the Esper. Never played it but it's what I think of when I think MMO Psion.

[Eldryth]

Psions can definitely fit well within fantasy settings (for what that's worth- Blizzard isn't limited to sticking with common fantasy archetypes, and they diverged from them with DH and have said that they made a conscious choice to have a launch class that they felt didn't fit within them). Dungeons and Dragons used to have a lot of Psionic classes in earlier editions, and though they're missing from the current edition (because the attempt they tested to make them turned out horribly broken), plenty of players want them back. Pillars of Eternity's Cipher class also comes to mind (probably because I was just looking into Avowed).


The issue is, how would it fit into Warcraft? Like pacotaco said, Warcraft's mental powers typically come from the Void- and as much as I feel that Shadow Priests aren't nearly enough to cover the entire Void concept, the mental stuff is the one part of the Void that they truly engage with on a meaningful level.

That said, a full Void class could still include that aspect too- there was plenty of room for both Warlocks and Demon Hunters to cover Fel magic, after all- but I don't really see it becoming the full focus of a class when there's far more to the Void that we don't have access to at all. Maybe one spec could use mental powers as a support spec?

- I also don't know what is a Dao-seeking cultivator is. The only thing I've found in google is like a meditating monk.

I think that's a reference to Chinese Xianxia stories? Their cultivation, from what I understand, is about using martial arts and meditation for limitless self-improvement to eventually become a god. Honestly, I don't see how that differs from the Monk we already have, but I'm far from an expert on those stories- only looked into some surface-level stuff a while back.

[username993720]

- The problem with Psion is that in WoW, psychic powers are usually tied to the Void, there are no previous instances of it being a thing on its own, so it would most likely be part of a melee Void class.

Does he also mean telekinetic powers? That's sci-fi.
Plus, mages already have the ability to make objects float and move on their own.

- I also don't know what is a Dao-seeking cultivator is. The only thing I've found in google is like a meditating monk.

I think that's a reference to Chinese Xianxia stories? Their cultivation, from what I understand, is about using martial arts and meditation for limitless self-improvement to eventually become a god. Honestly, I don't see how that differs from the Monk we already have, but I'm far from an expert on those stories- only looked into some surface-level stuff a while back.

Good to see i'm not the only one who doesn't know some of the things he listed.

Hmm, a Psionic class might be cool if they build on more elements of sci-fi and alien powers associated with the Great Dark Beyond. Kind've like the concepts in the current Hearthstone expansion.

Wildstar had a psionic class, the Esper. Never played it but it's what I think of when I think MMO Psion.

Wildstar is more sci-fi than fantasy.

[Golden Yak]

Wildstar is more sci-fi than fantasy.

Sure, but I think of psionic powers as a whole as more sci-fi than fantasy. It's why I suggested a class inspired by alien and sci-fi stuff rather than magic and fantasy.

[username993720]

The only thing i totally agree with him on is the lack of Cowboy\Sheriff archetype. But, how do we make such a relatively recent figure match a fantasy setting? I think it matches well with the Vampire Slayer\Witch Hunter in terms of gameplay and identity (gunslinging and bounty hunting), just with a different aesthetics.

Sure, but I think of psionic powers as a whole as more sci-fi than fantasy. It's why I suggested a class inspired by alien and sci-fi stuff rather than magic and fantasy.

Would it fit WoW? I feel like it would alienate it from what it is in its core.

[Allarielle]

Yeah, I was referring to xianxia cultivators - ascetics who use spiritual arts to wield elemental powers. Similar to WoW's monks, but there's enough variation in there that several classes could be spawned from it. That being said, I wasn't trying to toss out ideas that would necessarily work as classes in themselves, only archetypes that don't currently exist or aren't fully fleshed out in WoW. For Psions, just because most mind powers in WoW to date have come from the void, that doesn't mean there couldn't be a new way to use mind powers that some new faction discovers. The prohibition against sci-fi concepts seems nonsensical to me. WoW is a game that has already tanks, mechs, and multiple different types of spaceships. There are multiple advanced high tech civilizations in the lore, some of which we can even play as. They can take the lore in whatever direction they want to.

[username993720]

The prohibition against sci-fi concepts seems nonsensical to me. WoW is a game that has already tanks, mechs, and multiple different types of spaceships. There are multiple advanced high tech civilizations in the lore, some of which we can even play as. They can take the lore in whatever direction they want to.

Low tech isn't, necessarily, sci-fi. I'd say it's a romanticized vision of the old inventor:


Space-ships don't usually take the foreground in the WoW universe (except for certain ocassions). I'd say that is the whole idea behind Starcraft. Even if Draenei are directly inspired by the Protoss, they're still grounded in fantasy with their Paladins and Priests.

[Allarielle]

@username993720 Sure thing, but if they can make space ships work in the lore, they can also make espers or cowboys or bounty hunters work. For all that people deride Blizzard for their writing in the last few expansions, they still have more than enough creativity left in them to be able to create whatever lore they need for whatever archetype they want to add. They're not anywhere close to being in a situation of having exhausted the limits of different character fantasies. Also, I would argue that Legion, Draenei, and Titan tech is not exactly low tech.

[username993720]

@username993720 Sure thing, but if they can make space ships work in the lore, they can also make espers or cowboys or bounty hunters work. For all that people deride Blizzard for their writing in the last few expansions, they still have more than enough creativity left in them to be able to create whatever lore they need for whatever archetype they want to add. They're not anywhere close to being in a situation of having exhausted the limits of different character fantasies. Also, I would argue that Legion, Draenei, and Titan tech is not exactly low tech.

I never claimed they're out ideas.
I'm saying you and i have different ideas as to what Warcraft is.
Legion using spaceships is a relatively new concept. Draenei are supposed to be the alien race (Protoss) and the Titans "the mysterious creators". If a tech class is introduced, racial differences would be cosmetic, like giving each race their own mech suit or robotic creations. But, i doubt it will be cyberpunk in nature.

[Triceron]

Yeah, I was referring to xianxia cultivators - ascetics who use spiritual arts to wield elemental powers. Similar to WoW's monks, but there's enough variation in there that several classes could be spawned from it. That being said, I wasn't trying to toss out ideas that would necessarily work as classes in themselves, only archetypes that don't currently exist or aren't fully fleshed out in WoW.

Sounds like it would work better as a Hero Talent for Monks more than a separate class. It is conceptually similar to the Transcendant from Dark Factions WOW TTRPG, a Pandaren that is basically becomes elemental avatars like Earth Storm and Fire abilities, sorta like Shaman Ascendency mixed with the Last Airbender.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Pandaren_transcendent



I could see this working as a Hero Talent for each spec. Earth for Brewmaster, Storm for Mistweaver and Fire for Windwalker.

[Al Gorefiend]

I'm wondering... what kind of staple fantasy RPG, mythological archetypes, are missing from the game besides the Japanese Samurai, the Gothic Vampire Slayer\Witch Hunter, the Brilliant Inventor, the Mad Scientist, the Exotic Witch Doctor, and the Wandering Minstrel?

The "Fights alongside a powerful, ghost-like or cosmic force behind it mimicking its moves or directing/assisting it" or has some sort of doll/object that contains the essence or soul of some powerful thing they can command.

[username993720]

The "Fights alongside a powerful, ghost-like or cosmic force behind it mimicking its moves or directing/assisting it" or has some sort of doll/object that contains the essence or soul of some powerful thing they can command.

Can you give examples?