We will probably see a new Class during the Worldsoul Saga

[Teriz]

Well... i have moved goal post to a tech based class. Doesn't necessarily have to be a Tinker as we know it. I would be ok with titan based tech like the machine speakers. Something new but with a basis on tech will also work for me.

The thing is the likelyhood of Tinker is now pretty low. I don't think they will add it in this patch, even though they should and i don't understand why they don't. Engineering clearly doesn't deliver the fantasy on a combat setting.

But, i suppose they think it does. Thus my thinking they will go with some new tech concept rather than the goblin/gnome one.

Well that’s the thing; Blizzard isn’t going to move off of a tech class based on a franchise character to a generic tech class not based on a franchise character. If they’re not doing a class based on the Goblin Tinker, then the profession is all the playable tech you’re getting.

If we get no mid expansion class, look towards midnight or TLT for the new class. However neither of those potential classes would be tech-based.

[Mic_128]

I debated if people would care that alliance get 5 Tinker races whereas Horde get 2, but ultimately don't think it'll matter much.

Is this your first visit to a forum for the discussion of WoW? May I also assume that you must play with the in-game chat turned off? Because there's no way that either of those could be wrong and still think that. Half the game's population would absolutely lose their shit about that.

[deviantcultist]

Is this your first visit to a forum for the discussion of WoW? May I also assume that you must play with the in-game chat turned off? Because there's no way that either of those could be wrong and still think that. Half the game's population would absolutely lose their shit about that.

Between the average takes of the community and Blizz, I consider Blizz the lesser evil of the two to be fair.

[Teriz]

I debated if people would care that alliance get 5 Tinker races whereas Horde get 2, but ultimately don't think it'll matter much.

Vulpera maybe. They don't strike me as Tinker material but got the size working for them.

I should say that Draenei and Nightborne likely wouldn't be Tinker classes because of size AND aesthetic.

I do believe that Blizzard purposely created the Earthen in order to give the factions even racial balance for a technology class. If that theory is true, then Dwarves wouldn't be Tinkers either. It would just be Goblins, Gnomes, Vulpera, MGnomes, and Earthen.

That would make the available races w/o ARs Goblins and Gnomes, and make a lot of sense.

Spec configuration would be Mech > Tank, Demolitions > DPS, Robotics > DPS/Support.
Hero talents could be Biochemist, Mekgineer, and Artificer (Titan tech)

I don't think they're going to give this class a healing spec.

[Al Gorefiend]

Is this your first visit to a forum for the discussion of WoW? May I also assume that you must play with the in-game chat turned off? Because there's no way that either of those could be wrong and still think that. Half the game's population would absolutely lose their shit about that.

I haven't heard those types of whining since allied race reveal. Horde still ended up with 2 druids and Alliance got 1, Blizz didnt care.

I could see maybe a forum post or 2 but I doubt people consider variant gnome and an extra dwarf variant gamebreaking.

[Nightshade711]

I If that theory is true, then Dwarves wouldn't be Tinkers either. It would just be Goblins, Gnomes, Vulpera, MGnomes, and Earthen.

Ah, yes. Vulpera, the race that’s known for their technological prowess. I loved in BfA where the Vulpera built a big mech and ran around fighting in it… oh wait.

If Vulpera can be Tinkers because they share a skeleton with the Goblins then why can Earthen be Tinkers but not Dwarves/Dark Iron?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ah, yes. Vulpera, the race that’s known for their technological prowess. I loved in BfA where the Vulpera built a big mech and ran around fighting in it… oh wait.

If Vulpera can be Tinkers because they share a skeleton with the Goblins then why can Earthen be Tinkers but not Dwarves/Dark Iron?

Ya especially dark iron who we now know from the black rock raid had mechs so advanced they could use them to transcend death it self.

[Teriz]

Ah, yes. Vulpera, the race that’s known for their technological prowess. I loved in BfA where the Vulpera built a big mech and ran around fighting in it… oh wait.

If Vulpera can be Tinkers because they share a skeleton with the Goblins then why can Earthen be Tinkers but not Dwarves/Dark Iron?

Faction balance.

Dwarves are a nice to have, not a need to have Tinker-wise.

[Ielenia]

How is the premise false when the DK class is based on WC3 DK and Arthas. The Monk class is based on WC3 Brewmaster and Chen. The Demon Hunter class is based on WC3/HotS DH/Illidan and Illidan Stormrage. The Evoker class is based on the dragon aspect characters from HotS and the Dragon Aspects.

The boldened part is what debunks the premise: the evoker class is not based off on the WoW dragon characters from HotS, and I've already detailed why in a previous response to you. Tl;Dr: their gameplay in nothing resembles the HotS characters.

There's no reason to assume that the Tinker class based on Gazlowe (a Goblin) wouldn't release with Goblin content, which is Undermine. The difference here being that it's not an expansion, but a major content patch. The reason it has to be a major content patch is because they won't (or can't) create an expansion based solely around Goblins for a host of reasons. For whatever reason, Blizzard has a dogmatic approach to expansion class release, so based on that dogmatic approach them releasing the Tinker in 11.1.5 makes sense.

It doesn't make sense, as everyone has explained to you. It makes no business sense and brings no benefit whatsoever to keep a new class a secret: it doesn't help player retention if the players don't know a new class is coming, and it won't attract new players because the overwhelming majority of people not playing WoW are not keeping an eye on mid-season patches.

For example, it was Alexstraza HotS where players first got to play an Aspect in Visage form that could turn into a dragon. That mechanic was carried over into the Evoker class.

Visage existed in WoW for the longest time for the dragons in WoW before the first WoW dragon appeared in HotS, and the players already had a similar 'visage' mechanic in play: the worgen.

You really have to look at how Blizzard has released their expansion classes in the past to see the logic behind it.

If you're going to bring "how Blizzard has done things in the past" then this will do you way more harm than good, since Blizzard has never released a class mid-expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Vulpera maybe. They don't strike me as Tinker material but got the size working for them.

Vulpera really don't work as a 'tinker race' IMO due to their theme and culture. The only other Horde race less technologically-inclined than them are the taurens. Forsaken, blood elves and mag'har orcs are more tech-like than the Vulpera.

Size isn't an issue, they can always reduce the player model size slightly to fit in mechs. They do so for hunter pet models when you tame them. Example: Oondasta.

[Teriz]

The boldened part is what debunks the premise: the evoker class is not based off on the WoW dragon characters from HotS, and I've already detailed why in a previous response to you. Tl;Dr: their gameplay in nothing resembles the HotS characters.

They're based on the Dragon Aspects, and the playable version of the aspects was in HotS. Which is why the class contains HotS abilities from those Dragon Aspect characters.

I'll have to double check, but I believe that Evokers got more HotS/WC3 style abilities than any other expansion class at release.

It doesn't make sense, as everyone has explained to you. It makes no business sense and brings no benefit whatsoever to keep a new class a secret: it doesn't help player retention if the players don't know a new class is coming, and it won't attract new players because the overwhelming majority of people not playing WoW are not keeping an eye on mid-season patches.

If Augmentation is any indication of what might happen here, players will have several weeks between announcement and class release. That's plenty of time for non-current players to re-sub, and plenty of time for current players to prepare. In that time frame, Blizzard will get a ton of media attention from both the gaming press and social media, building hype in the process. That will erase a mid-expansion slump and keep subs up while bringing in more expansion purchases as players will want to try the new class. Especially a new class as anticipated as the Tinker.


EDIT: An intersting argument I've seen being tossed around the official forums is that the WSS is a tech-based trilogy. Their argument was that we're encountering tech with the Earthen and soon Undermine in TWW. They believe that in Midnight we're going to encounter Ethereal technology due to the arrival of Dimensius. Finally The Last Titan is going to deal with Ulduar which is where Mimiron is located.

An interesting theory to be sure. I'm not 100% on board with it though.

[Ielenia]

They're based on the Dragon Aspects, and the playable version of the aspects was in HotS.

This is woefully off-topic. Just accept the fact that the evoker class was not based off the HotS Warcraft dragons and move on, as their playstyles are completely different, regardless of however many shared abilities they may or may not have.

If Augmentation is any indication of what might happen here,

It's not an indication of anything. The Augmentation spec is a special case. A spec which its release was delayed for the sole reason that it was not ready for the expansion's release.

EDIT: An intersting argument I've seen being tossed around the official forums is that the WSS is a tech-based trilogy.

A very weak argument IMO (if it exists at all) considering TWW is mainly about the void and Xal'atath, and from the looks of things, so will be Midnight. That's like saying the Wrath expansion was a tech-based expansion because of Ulduar.

[Teriz]

It's not an indication of anything.

And you made the exact same argument in regards to Evoker 3rd spec, to the point where direct evidence was being ignored by you.

Listen, no one is saying this is DEFINITELY going to happen, but it's a little childish to act like there is ZERO chance of it happening. This time around, a little openness to the possibility on your part would make for a far more interesting conversation.

[Ielenia]

And you made the exact same argument in regards to Evoker 3rd spec, to the point where direct evidence was being ignored by you.

This is not the same thing. At best, it's the reverse with you ignoring everything that goes against your narrative here. The evoker's third spec is not indication of anything because it wasn't delayed "to boost sales / increase retention". It was delayed because it wasn't ready for launch.

it's a little childish to act like there is ZERO chance of it happening.

The chances are so low they might as well be zero, which is the point here. And if you want "far more interesting conversations", perhaps stop insisting on arguments that were debunked hundreds of pages ago?

[Teriz]

The chances are so low they might as well be zero, which is the point here. And if you want "far more interesting conversations", perhaps stop insisting on arguments that were debunked hundreds of pages ago?

Except we have evidence of this happening. If the chances are higher than zero then it’s worthy of discussion.

- - - Updated - - -

In unrelated news, this article popped up on Wowhead;

https://www.wowhead.com/classic/guid...%20the%20Horde.

In this article, it states the following;

Class Differences between Current WoW and Classic
The class system has undergone many revisions following original Vanilla WoW. Here are some of the top changes:

There are 9 classes, down from 14.

Death Knights, Monks, Demon Hunters, Evokers, and Preservers are not available in Classic WoW.

Anyone care to guess what a "Preserver is?

[Ielenia]

Except we have evidence of this happening. If the chances are higher than zero then it’s worthy of discussion.

Players wanting this to happen is not evidence.

There's no actual, concrete evidence of a mid-expansion class reveal happening at all.

Anyone care to guess what a "Preserver is?

I would guess it's an error of whoever wrote the WoWHead article.

Remember that this link is not a press statement from Blizzard or anything official, but something written by someone unaffiliated with Blizzard.

[Teriz]

Evidence doesn't need to be "concrete" to be evidence. There is circumstantial evidence for example.

Anyway, here's some evidence I've come up with thus far. Please note, I'm not saying that this is definitively leading us to a Tinker inclusion, but it's some curious observations I've made over the last few months as this expansion has rolled out.

#1. Gazlowe's new model is based on the Tinker hero model from HotS:



Gazlowe is sporting his Tinker hero model from HotS. And I know people disagree with that being his HotS outfit, but even Wowhead pointed it out;

https://www.wowhead.com/pt/news/new-...-11-0-7-349568

Gazlowe's Greasmonkeys are also returning. As I'm sure everyone remembers, the Greasemonkeys were notable because they held HotS Tinker abilities that were translated into WoW. It's important to remember that the last time several HotS abilities were transferred to WoW, we ended up with playable Dark Rangers.

#2. Goblins and Gazlowe are possibly late additions to The War Within

Gazlowe not appearing at all during BlizzCon for TWW's announcement, and his model being unfinished even at expansion launch indicates that he wasn't originally planned to be in this expansion. Additionally when it was announced that he was going to appear as one of the characters focused on in the Voices Within set of short stories for TWW's major characters, people were a bit surprised, because again he wasn't mentioned at all during BlizzCon.

Chris Metzen in an interview stated that he came into TWW development about 10 months after they began;

“I joined when TWW was in development for about 10 months. While I liked what they had in my head I’m like for 20 years, I wanna have a feeling whatever it becomes I wanna pull all the toys out of the toy box”

he was told there’s no way to get what he wanted done

“That began this whole idea of a saga, what if we can get where I want to go and build off of what they developed in TWW” he then said he plans to get the story to his vision after TWW by getting there in “ the next couple expansions”

Given Gazlowe's history as a Warcraft character, I wonder if his sudden appearance and importance is Metzen's doing. Blizzard introduced Gazlowe right around the time they introduced Thrall, so I wonder if Metzen "pulled the Gazlowe toy out of the box" and pushed Goblins into the storyline. If that is the case, why did he do it?

#3. Undermine replacing Rootlands?

Along the same vein, there is Undermine itself. During TWW's development we know there was a forested zone proposed in the expansion. That forested zone was dubbed "Rootlands", and was found on early datelined maps of Khaz Algar. That forested zone was of vital importance because its the proposed location of the Haronir who most consider to be the next Allied race. With them being of such major importance as a AR, it would seem odd that them and their zone are not the major patch content for 11.1. Instead, we got Undermine, and unlike the major content patch in Dragonflight which bought us Augmentation Evokers, there's nothing of lasting substance to Undermine. Wouldn't it make more sense to go with the forested zone that leads to the next allied race in a major content patch instead of what appears to be side content with Undermine?



Undermine being major patch content should have a lasting effect on the entire expansion and thus the saga. However, while Undermine fits the overall thematic of the expansion, it doesn't really fit the general thrust of the expansion's storyline, and quite frankly doesn't match its feel either. There is the new D.R.I.V.E. ground mounts coming in 11.1, but it seems rather odd that Undermine(d) potentially amounts to use tanking and spanking Gallywix and being done with it by 11.1.5 with Night Visions taking precedence immediately afterwards. Something seems quite off about that.

#4. Blizzard's track record with classes and themes.

As I explained in this thread, Blizzard's history of class inclusion kind of makes Undermine(d) the last window in the foreseeable future to release a technology class into the game. That, alongside Gazlowe being possibly pushed into TWW wearing his HotS gear makes me wonder if Blizzard is bringing the class into the game mid-expansion as the class for the saga. Why? Perhaps Blizzard is looking at the thematics of the next two expansions and recognizing that there are no classes that really match the thematics of those expansions, and Undermine(d) is a good place for them to get the WSS class out of the way and continue on with the expansion.



That theory explains the shuffling of Goblins, Gazlowe, and Undermine into the storyline.

#5. Augmentation Evokers as a precursor and model for major mid-expansion content

Augmentation Evoker's mid-expansion release shocked quite a few people. Many of the same arguments that stated that Blizzard would never introduce a new spec into WoW at the mid-point are being raised again in the case of a mid-expansion class release. Interestingly, Augmentation also solved a lot of the issues that people brought up during that debate, and you can rather easily apply those solutions to the idea of a mid-expansion class release. @Trazzle suggested that Augmentation might have been the test run for this, and Blizzard might have even upped the ante and made it a support spec to get maximum effect. Again, that's just a theory, but it is interesting that Blizzard was willing to break balance in that way just for a single spec, when they could have easily created a standard DPS spec that would have been ready at launch, and not caused ongoing stress in the meta.



Which leads me to.....

#6. Where's the other support spec?

People were surprised at TWW launch when none of the hero talent trees or existing specs were made into support specs to compete with Augmentation. Blizzard has kept Augmentation as the only support spec in the game, and that is a rather strange decision, given that Blizzard could have rather easily made Discipline a support healing spec. The lack of another support spec to compete with Augmentation, and Blizzard being unwilling to change existing specs to support leads me to believe that Blizzard is potentially releasing a new class before midnight that adds another support spec to the game and better balances out Augmentation.

#7. Earthen Tinkers

Yeah we discussed this, but it is interesting that we got our first claw pack on this race of character;



I want to also point out that their Azerite-based ability is quite interesting, since I've longed believed that a technology class would use Azerite-based abilities.

Could it be possible that they were brought in to be a neutral Tinker race and to give parity to the factions? There was a rumor that there was a class planned for TWW, but it was decided that there would be no new class at launch. Was the class purposely pushed back to better align with the Tinker class' WC3/HotS thematics?




Anyway that's it for now. Like I said, thus far it's just speculation. As I stated before, 11.1-11.1.7 could just come and go with no new class. We'll see soon enough.

[username993720]

Anyway that's it for now. Like I said, thus far it's just speculation. As I stated before, 11.1-11.1.7 could just come and go with no new class. We'll see soon enough.

Can't you wait for The Last Titan, like the rest of us?
It's the most plausible setting.

[Teriz]

Can't you wait for The Last Titan, like the rest of us?
It's the most plausible setting.

That's the thing; I'm not sure it is.

Like I said earlier, a Goblin-based class doesn't really fit in a Titan expansion.

[Ielenia]

Evidence doesn't need to be "concrete" to be evidence. There is circumstantial evidence for example.

Evidence needs to be evidence. You have nothing. Concrete, circumstantial, anecdotal, metaphorical, technical or whatever.

There's literally no evidence for the idea of a mid-expansion class release. And "I want it to happen" is not evidence. It's just wishful thinking.

]#1. Gazlowe's new model is based on the Tinker hero model from HotS:

That's not evidence of a mid-expansion class release. All expansions bring new, updated models for NPCs.

#2. Goblins and Gazlowe are possibly late additions to The War Within

That's not evidence of a mid-expansion class release. Goblins are also not late additions. You can't claim that while at the same time claim it was all planned because of Gazlowe's short story.

#3. Undermine replacing Rootlands?

That's not evidence of a mid-expansion class release. You're taking flimsy speculations as facts.

#4. Blizzard's track record with classes and themes.

That's not evidence of a mid-expansion class release. If you really want to use "Blizzard's track record", I'll remind you that they have no "mid-expansion class release" in their track records.

#5. Augmentation Evokers as a precursor and model for major mid-expansion content

That's not evidence of a mid-expansion class release. You keep ignoring reality that the evoker's third spec was delayed because it wasn't ready for the expansion's release. It wasn't delayed to "boost hype" or "player retention". It was delayed because it needed further development to make it work.

#6. Where's the other support spec?

That's not evidence of a mid-expansion class release. We'll have more support specs if Blizzard adds a new class to the game, or adds fourth specs for existing classes.

#7. Earthen Tinkers

That's not evidence of a mid-expansion class release.

In conclusion: none of what you posted above is actual evidence of a mid-expansion class release, concrete or circumstantial, individually or collectively. In fact, none of that points or hints at all at that possibility.

Yeah we discussed this, but it is interesting that we got our first claw pack on this race of character;

And yet said "claw pack" is never used, at all. Not even on auto-attacks.

I want to also point out that their Azerite-based ability is quite interesting, since I've longed believed that a technology class would use Azerite-based abilities.

Because the Earthen are made from Azeroth's azerite-infused earth, not because of machines.

[Nightshade711]

Faction balance.

Dwarves are a nice to have, not a need to have Tinker-wise.

I doubt blizzard cares about “faction balance” for race/class combos. Given the horde has more Druids & Shaman than the alliance does.

If Tinkers are race locked they’re probably only going to be Goblins/Earthen on horde side, because Vulpera make absolutely zero sense.