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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    I think that's the bigger challenge at getting the "PC world" to more adopt a monthly-cost-online library. Unless you're of the age, or free time, that you're playing multiple new, or multi-player, games a month (or don't mind burning the money just to have that open and available) - there's just no real benefit.
    Nobody is forcing you to stay subbed forever. You can sub for what used to be $10, and now $12 one time to play a $60+ game in it's launch month and unsub after finishing it. If you wanted to own it later, you can wait on a deep sale on steam and it's still ends up far cheaper than it would have if you bought the full price game at launch.

    This is definitely not what MS intends of the service, but PC gamers not taking advantage of it are literally pissing money away if they play any single player games on day 1 that are also on gamepass. Obviously it's different for multiplayer games you will play for longer periods of time, and it's not very useful there unless you weren't sold on the game and wanted to try it for cheap.

  2. #462
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    I think that's the bigger challenge at getting the "PC world" to more adopt a monthly-cost-online library. Unless you're of the age, or free time, that you're playing multiple new, or multi-player, games a month (or don't mind burning the money just to have that open and available) - there's just no real benefit.
    An Ultimate sub for a year at $20 a month is cheaper then 4 $70 games. It won't be a challenge convincing PC users to subscribe as long as Microsoft can release enough content a year to make it worthwhile. That isn't just first party titles as things like Palword can help towards the value of the subscription. It is a highly individual thing based on what games you like though. A family member forgot to cancel for like a year and never found a game they liked so sees little value in it.

    I did 3 years for $170 using the gold conversion trick just because I wanted to play High on Life and Starfield. I've played some games I normally wouldn't because they are free. Some I've played because they sound interesting but didn't like but I'm not out any money. Others I play just because I'm bored or let a family member play because their are kid friendly games.
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  3. #463
    We are out here thinking they had long term plans but I bet it is just ignorance or mandates to blame for this stuff moreso than malevolence. Like, they are flying by the seat of their pants here.

    What is the goal of this?

    Could it be:

    1. To increase gamepass revenue
    2. To increase gamepass subscriptions
    3. To increase game sales

    I will just be shocked if any of those 3 things happen, but maybe...either MS is super smart and making all the right 4D chess moves or we are all 100% on the Hanlon's razor's edge here.

    MS sure don't want us getting these games for as cheap as before but all I see across the net is how proud everyone is for having already stacked up till 2027. Good for yall, but damn what if you actually had to pay $19.99 a month for this or $15 dollars a month for gamepass that is missing: day one release feature, "specific entries to the Game Pass Ultimate library," access to EA Play, Xbox Cloud Gaming, perks, Quests, and discounts on games in the Game Pass library.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2024-07-10 at 07:07 PM.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Nobody is forcing you to stay subbed forever. You can sub for what used to be $10, and now $12 one time to play a $60+ game in it's launch month and unsub after finishing it. If you wanted to own it later, you can wait on a deep sale on steam and it's still ends up far cheaper than it would have if you bought the full price game at launch.

    This is definitely not what MS intends of the service, but PC gamers not taking advantage of it are literally pissing money away if they play any single player games on day 1 that are also on gamepass. Obviously it's different for multiplayer games you will play for longer periods of time, and it's not very useful there unless you weren't sold on the game and wanted to try it for cheap.
    I did this for starfield. What a disappointing experience for the 5 hours I tried to like. Bethesda has one more shot with TESVI.
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  5. #465
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    We are out here thinking they had long term plans but I bet it is just ignorance or mandates to blame for this stuff moreso than malevolence. Like, they are flying by the seat of their pants here.
    Are you talking about Microsoft or yourself here? Anytime something happens you keep over analyzing it and trying to find ways for why it is a really bad thing. People on Console already have to pay $19.99 a month if they want to play multiplayer on Xbox and have the cheapest game pass sub. So not much is really changing.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Are you talking about Microsoft or yourself here? Anytime something happens you keep over analyzing it and trying to find ways for why it is a really bad thing. People on Console already have to pay $19.99 a month if they want to play multiplayer on Xbox and have the cheapest game pass sub. So not much is really changing.
    If people on console wanted both online multiplayer and gamepass, they subbed to Ultimate which included both, which is getting a price increase. It was $16.99, it will now be $19.99.

    What in the hell are you talking about?

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Are you talking about Microsoft or yourself here? Anytime something happens you keep over analyzing it and trying to find ways for why it is a really bad thing. People on Console already have to pay $19.99 a month if they want to play multiplayer on Xbox and have the cheapest game pass sub. So not much is really changing.
    The two biggest multiplayer games being played (Fortnite,Warzone) don't require the sub on Xbox or any other platform.

    As for the bolded no they don't, The current sub price is $16.99 for Ultimate and its getting hiked to $19.99. If all they wanted was just to play online without really using game pass it cost $9.99.

    What the fuck are you on about.
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  8. #468
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    If people on console wanted both online multiplayer and gamepass, they subbed to Ultimate which included both, which is getting a price increase. It was $16.99, it will now be $19.99.
    Right, most console users are only seeing a $3 increase in price with no loss of service. The person I quoted isn't framing it that way though and focusing on what the standard subs are losing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    The two biggest multiplayer games being played (Fortnite,Warzone) don't require the sub on Xbox or any other platform.
    Yes, free to play games don't require Xbox users to purchase multiplayer. Just because they are "biggest" doesn't mean they are not the only multiplayer games around. What I said is technically wrong because it would be $11.99 + $9.99 which is $21.99 it isn't for the reason you are using. The console game pass is the cheapest sub I referenced and it doesn't have multiplayer now.

    I never said it was the best value to get game pass and multiplayer. Only framing it in the context of the discussion that keeps focusing on the console gamepass users getting shafted by losing benefits.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Yeah, but for CoD they would have to pay for Core as well. Console game pass does not include the multiplayer ability. Core (the replacement for gold) is $9.99 a month. The recently announced changes include core in the basic game pass for console so it is no longer a separate purchase.

    Can I play multiplayer games with Game Pass?
    Depending on the game, yes—though for multiplayer you need either Xbox Game Pass Ultimate or a subscription to Xbox Game Pass Core (sold separately). Note Free-to-play online multiplayer games no longer require an Xbox Game Pass Core subscription. https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/...-game-pass-faq
    This is correct, just want to give some visibility to this so I'm not all negative about Xbox the above is 100% true best I can tell. It doesn't alleviate the issue for everyone, for example obviously in my case it would make not difference, but I would expect most Xbox gamers would also want online play.

    I think the issues are:

    1. The non-ultimate version of gamepass on consoles for new users GAINS online play(correct?) but loses day 1 games and a few other potentially important things like "specific entries to the Game Pass Ultimate library."
    2. The ultimate version on console is now almost 20 dollars a month for new users, which in my estimation is directly on the line of being too high but not over
    3. The PC version of gamepass is much cheaper, keeps day 1 games and has EA Play making console gamers feel bad man
    4. Gamepass is now getting convoluted and difficult to understand, we need clarity on when day 1 games move over into the broader service, what "specific entries to the Game Pass Ultimate library," are, and how 3rd party temporary gamepass deals will be handled(will they ever see the lower tier before they are removed?)
    5. New console customers without grandfather options are stuck with the new pricing and I just don't see how this helps Xbox marketshare

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    and has EA Play
    This is basically the same as it's been.

    EA Play right now is only in ultimate for console subs, but in regular PC gamepass. This has always been the case, likely because MS gets a cut of EA Play subs on console so the math never made sense for them to also have it in the cheap version of gamepass.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    This is basically the same as it's been.

    EA Play right now is only in ultimate for console subs, but in regular PC gamepass. This has always been the case, likely because MS gets a cut of EA Play subs on console so the math never made sense for them to also have it in the cheap version of gamepass.
    Interesting. Perhaps the main reason I am seeing people complain is simply because the PC gamepass sub is so much better value than the lower console sub and also comes with EA play for $11.99 but need to spend $19.99 on console to get the equivalent.

    Just in my case, the lower end console version is the crap one here. It is missing everything that makes Gamepass good but is still rather costly. I think if they just scrapped the lower end console plan and still did the grandfathering this would have been a lot less of a PR disaster for them. Just one plan on console for $19.99 that doesn't skip day 1 or other "specific entries to the Game Pass Ultimate library." and had EA play + Xbox live(online play on console) is NOT super offensive to me, but the lower end plan kinda is.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2024-07-10 at 09:24 PM.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    Then how to explain low attach rate for software on Xbox series if game pass not to blame? Do you really think that the rental service that is game pass does not affect purchase? They have made it the lodestar of their platform!

    Why spend money to buy when already paying to rent?

    The only theory I’ve ever heard, is that people just use game pass as some sort of a demo system, which I find patently absurd.
    I bought Hi Fi Rush on steam after playing to the first boss on game pass.

    You were saying?
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Their enemies are busy labeling people "shitheads," dodging all the tough arguments (to the extent they acknowledge contrary arguments existing), and going over all the prejudices that make them believe they're arguing with bad people.
    "Dodge tough questions" types the poster with people on ignore who he couldn't handle the tough questions of.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    I bought Hi Fi Rush on steam after playing to the first boss on game pass.

    You were saying?
    Was your purpose to subscribing to gamepass to demo games so you would eventually buy them, or just to save money with a good deal on a game rental service? Legit question.

    Did you think buying gamepass would save you money overall on games?

    If you are spending less money in gaming that before gamepass, that money is removed from gaming and spend elsewhere, no? Do you think that you saving money, aka spending less on your hobby, is a good thing or a bad thing for the health of the hobby?

    Do you think gamepass is growing gaming?

    Sure, I've bought games after playing them on gamepass, to support that specific developer and also so my license would no longer be rented...however, the implication that most players at scale use gamepass primarily as a way to evaluate games for purchase vs primarily as a way to save money, is ludicrous.

    Gamepass is a value proposition. It relies on growing the gaming userbase in order to achieve the same revenue that was achieved before with less gamers, because nearly everyone on gamepass is paying less for games than they would had they opted to purchase those games. This is why Microsoft is releasing games on Playstation and Nintendo, so pump up those actual game sales, and this is also the reason MS is jacking up the price on day 1 games on gamepass, to try and get more money per subscription to make up for the deficit.

    This will not be the last or the biggest change to gamepass imho. Still a long way to go, in the end gamepass will need to bring in the same or more revenue than paying outright for games did or grow the userbase to scale where the profit is the same, or it will be a failed experiment.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; Yesterday at 01:53 PM.

  14. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Nobody is forcing you to stay subbed forever. You can sub for what used to be $10, and now $12 one time to play a $60+ game in it's launch month and unsub after finishing it. If you wanted to own it later, you can wait on a deep sale on steam and it's still ends up far cheaper than it would have if you bought the full price game at launch.

    This is definitely not what MS intends of the service, but PC gamers not taking advantage of it are literally pissing money away if they play any single player games on day 1 that are also on gamepass. Obviously it's different for multiplayer games you will play for longer periods of time, and it's not very useful there unless you weren't sold on the game and wanted to try it for cheap.
    Ahh well that sort of use, is true. I guess I never really even thought of using it that way. I don't follow Xbox..well anything so I've never really watched to see what "day 1 release" games are available on PC Gamepass.

    Now I'm also not someone who plays "day 1 release" AAA games anyway due to their cost, and I guess being so use to just "waiting for sales" It doesn't bother me anymore (hell it doesn't even register - lol) that I don't play games as soon as their released. NOW I am also a very slow player, with limited time, and it takes me longer than a month to beat /any/ game (ha) but yeah, when used that way I can certainly see more of a 'point' for PC gamers.

    But you are right, that isn't how MS is wanting us (PC players) to use it, so i'm sure IF they could come up with a way to stop that - they will.
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  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenfoldor View Post
    Was your purpose to subscribing to gamepass to demo games so you would eventually buy them, or just to save money with a good deal on a game rental service? Legit question.

    Did you think buying gamepass would save you money overall on games?

    If you are spending less money in gaming that before gamepass, that money is removed from gaming and spend elsewhere, no? Do you think that you saving money, aka spending less on your hobby, is a good thing or a bad thing for the health of the hobby?

    Do you think gamepass is growing gaming?

    Sure, I've bought games after playing them on gamepass, to support that specific developer and also so my license would no longer be rented...however, the implication that most players at scale use gamepass primarily as a way to evaluate games for purchase vs primarily as a way to save money, is ludicrous.

    Gamepass is a value proposition. It relies on growing the gaming userbase in order to achieve the same revenue that was achieved before with less gamers, because nearly everyone on gamepass is paying less for games than they would had they opted to purchase those games. This is why Microsoft is releasing games on Playstation and Nintendo, so pump up those actual game sales, and this is also the reason MS is jacking up the price on day 1 games on gamepass, to try and get more money per subscription to make up for the deficit.

    This will not be the last or the biggest change to gamepass imho. Still a long way to go, in the end gamepass will need to bring in the same or more revenue than paying outright for games did or grow the userbase to scale where the profit is the same, or it will be a failed experiment.
    I only subbed that month to try that game.
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Their enemies are busy labeling people "shitheads," dodging all the tough arguments (to the extent they acknowledge contrary arguments existing), and going over all the prejudices that make them believe they're arguing with bad people.
    "Dodge tough questions" types the poster with people on ignore who he couldn't handle the tough questions of.

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