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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    They were robbed of the chance to do so by bean counters telling them to emulate wow. We'll never know for sure
    First of all, you can't know that for sure (or were you privy to the development of all said games?); and secondly, it's not like we didn't have MMOs that tried to do differently; where are those MMOs now? The straightforward answer is usually the right one: we didn't have a more successful MMO, because noone was capable of creating one. All the "what ifs" are just excuses.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    First of all, you can't know that for sure (or were you privy to the development of all said games?); and secondly, it's not like we didn't have MMOs that tried to do differently; where are those MMOs now? The straightforward answer is usually the right one: we didn't have a more successful MMO, because noone was capable of creating one. All the "what ifs" are just excuses.
    Are you unfamiliar with the concept of opinion? Very few of the big budget MMO's tried to be different. Very, very few.

    And how do you know people were incapable of creating one? Perhaps their talents were wasted on trying to recreate wow in their own games rather than something they'd truly be good at.

    This is similar to the MCU problem. Everyone tried to be the MCU or create a hero movie / epic / saga for a few years.

  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Are you unfamiliar with the concept of opinion? Very few of the big budget MMO's tried to be different. Very, very few.
    But how do you know they were forced to copy WoW? You don't; that's your assumption, based only on the fact that they didn't create anything unique. We don't know if they were capable of creating anything unique in the first place; and you're blaming WoW success for that.

    It's a ridiculous thing to say, because it works the exact same way for anything successful. Lets say WoW isn't as successful as it was, it dies and somebody creates a different, unique game called World of Somethingelsecraft. Turns out WoS is a huge success, and what happens? Everyone copies WoS - because coyping is easier than creating. Are MMOs more diverse? No; it's just a different game being copied now.

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Schwert View Post
    Players don't want hard world content. Every time they even attempt it, people throw temper-tantrums about not wanting to group for open world stuff.
    Wrong. They would work on harder content if it actually gave real progression. Blizzards mistake of the past was that they never added an own progression path to gameplay outside of mythic+ or raids.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    But how do you know they were forced to copy WoW? You don't; that's your assumption, based only on the fact that they didn't create anything unique. We don't know if they were capable of creating anything unique in the first place; and you're blaming WoW success for that.

    It's a ridiculous thing to say, because it works the exact same way for anything successful. Lets say WoW isn't as successful as it was, it dies and somebody creates a different, unique game called World of Somethingelsecraft. Turns out WoS is a huge success, and what happens? Everyone copies WoS - because coyping is easier than creating. Are MMOs more diverse? No; it's just a different game being copied now.
    Oh you're absolutely right it happens with anything successful. I'm not saying WoW is guilty of anything, just that I wish it had ended sooner because it's formula overstayed it's welcome in my opinion.

    Personally I think MMO's should have a tighter storyline; with a defined beginning middle and end, even if that's a 10 year span. Having a game go on endlessly just cheapens the game, ruins the original vision, and causes issues like now where people are "WoW players" they're not mmo enjoyers, they're just "WoW players" and they actively shun other mmos on reddit/youtube etc. Because the brand loyalty.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thes View Post
    What do you mean, there's like 1 or at most 2 mechanics for any boss in LFR that you need to really care about?
    need to care /= has
    old bosses actually had 2-3 mechanics that u needed like 1 to learn as dps only, while 10 is obvious exaggeration, bosses now indeed are way too complex, there is reason why top guilds now raid with mandatory ink potion to be able to see screen, there is almost no new mechanic, but they use a LOT of old ones in same boss
    Quote Originally Posted by doledippers View Post
    since it's been pointed out that you have no way of knowing this like a dozen times
    u do and there are a lot of ways, like blizz flat out admit that DF didn't sell as SL at least, but hey it has 'less %loss' of players, which can still mean that addicts just didn't leave
    if SL had 10million, 6 million left and 4 million stayed, it probably had more players than DF (doubt i just throwing numbers to show point)
    we are beyond point of DF sold more or not, it didn't, that's fact, we are at point of why to avoid it in future, i'm in team of blizz just burned a LOT of consumer trust with bfa/sl combo that just made ppl hate to play anymore, DF is good and they just need to keep DF quality forward, others see different points u can check
    but to deny that DF sold worse than expected (or what it deserves) that's not helping at all, that's denial
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    Personally I think MMO's should have a tighter storyline; with a defined beginning middle and end, even if that's a 10 year span. Having a game go on endlessly just cheapens the game, ruins the original vision, and causes issues like now where people are "WoW players" they're not mmo enjoyers, they're just "WoW players" and they actively shun other mmos on reddit/youtube etc. Because the brand loyalty.
    I very much doubt "brand loyalty" actually exsits. People play WoW, because they feel comfortable in the formula and enjoy it. Case in point: most hardcore WoW players are usually adverse to anything "new" added to the game. They just want more of the things they enjoy: more raids, more dungeons, more zones. There are apparently some studies that after 30, most people stop researching and discovering new music; and are content to listen to the music they already know.

    It's the exact same case here. Most of the old timers don't need to rediscover the genre; and the new generation isn't that much into MMOs, AFAIK. So unless something changes, there's no real need on the market to rediscover MMOs; and new unique MMOs would probably flop, because of the above.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Rageonit View Post
    I very much doubt "brand loyalty" actually exsits. People play WoW, because they feel comfortable in the formula and enjoy it. Case in point: most hardcore WoW players are usually adverse to anything "new" added to the game. They just want more of the things they enjoy: more raids, more dungeons, more zones. There are apparently some studies that after 30, most people stop researching and discovering new music; and are content to listen to the music they already know.

    It's the exact same case here. Most of the old timers don't need to rediscover the genre; and the new generation isn't that much into MMOs, AFAIK. So unless something changes, there's no real need on the market to rediscover MMOs; and new unique MMOs would probably flop, because of the above.
    Idk I think the new generation is all for MMO's, just nothing currently designed appeals. You have people obsessed with RDR2 online, GTA5 Online and soon to be GTA6 online. If they added more persistence and came up with a new formula it would probably be massive.

    Though as a general rule, I think you're right. MMO's are a steadily dying genre. Which is a shame.

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