Warden Class Concept 2024 (Long)

[Enrif]

It's funny to see Teriz propose such a class concept, even though he wasn't that long ago, quite opposed to a warden related class.

I think this concept is fine, and i would play it.

Though it misses some ideas i would bring into such a class, most notably the inclusion of spellbreakers themes, mechanics and styles (1h+shield dps).
But that is bias on my side, and really wanting that magical melee fighter.

[Teriz]

It's funny to see Teriz propose such a class concept, even though he wasn't that long ago, quite opposed to a warden related class.

I think this concept is fine, and i would play it.

Though it misses some ideas i would bring into such a class, most notably the inclusion of spellbreakers themes, mechanics and styles (1h+shield dps).
But that is bias on my side, and really wanting that magical melee fighter.

I just needed a little more evidence before I considered it a possibility. That evidence presented itself in the revelations in 10.2.5, and the Warden transmog which I had honestly forgotten about because it was revealed over a year ago. The armor's release and the Warden lore changes (which interestingly coincide with each other) gave me cause to go ahead and build this concept and consider it a likely future class.

The players who got the transmog set and are now complaining and bummed out that there's no class that fully matches the Warden kind of reinforces my belief that Blizzard plans to release this class in the very near future. Probably for Midnight.

As for Spellbreakers, while I like the idea behind it (along with Spellblades) forming the tank spec of a Warden class, I believe that the "chain" and "tether" concepts from HotS forming a more "jailer" type of gameplay might be a stronger theme for a Warden tank. That said, if they do create a Warden class that uses a shield for a tank, I wouldn't be shocked.

[Kharli]

It's funny to see Teriz propose such a class concept, even though he wasn't that long ago, quite opposed to a warden related class.

I think this concept is fine, and i would play it.

Though it misses some ideas i would bring into such a class, most notably the inclusion of spellbreakers themes, mechanics and styles (1h+shield dps).
But that is bias on my side, and really wanting that magical melee fighter.

Paladins says hello and soon enough we will have Night elf Paladins, plus Death knights also exists.

[Enrif]

Paladins says hello and soon enough we will have Night elf Paladins, plus Death knights also exists.

very different flavor and style. It's like saying play a warlock or druid or dk instead of a mage. Having elements that are similar, superficially, doesn't make it the same. Demon Hunters are no Rogues, Evokers are no mages, Death Knights are no unholy paladins, and so on. A magic melee class would have magic (not holy or unholy, but arcane) features.

[Varodoc]

@Teriz Aren't you the guy who always says that the new class must be on the expansion box (you use this argument to prove that Alexstrasza is an Evoker)?

Death Knight > Arthas on the box of WotLK

Monk > Chen Stormstout on the box of MoP

Demon Hunter > Illidan on the box of Legion

Evoker > Alexstrasza on the box of DF

So are you saying that Maiev Shadowsong, a character with literally no lore about Light/Void and Quel'Thalas (save for one interaction with Kael'Thas in WCIII), will be on the box of Midnight, the expansion of Light/Void and Que'Thalas?

A very bold claim to make, but will it be vindicated? Most likely NOT.

[Teriz]

@Teriz Aren't you the guy who always says that the new class must be on the expansion box (you use this argument to prove that Alexstrasza is an Evoker)?

Death Knight > Arthas on the box of WotLK

Monk > Chen Stormstout on the box of MoP

Demon Hunter > Illidan on the box of Legion

Evoker > Alexstrasza on the box of DF

So are you saying that Maiev Shadowsong, a character with literally no lore about Light/Void and Quel'Thalas (save for one interaction with Kael'Thas in WCIII), will be on the box of Midnight, the expansion of Light/Void and Que'Thalas?

A very bold claim to make, but will it be vindicated? Most likely NOT.

Thing is, you're going to need a major elf character to be on the cover for Midnight. Alleria (I believe) is already going to be on the cover of TWW with Thrall and Anduin. Maiev has the bonafides to be a cover character because she is an elf, and she is a rather major and popular character in Warcraft. Not to mention she isn't a very light-hearted character. She very much has darker thematics, and her character class is heavily based in Shadow magic and abilities. Heck, her last name is Shadowsong for a reason.

Also;



If that was the cover of Warcraft: Midnight, I don't think anyone would be scratching their heads.

[pacotaco]

Theres zero chance we get a elf-only class again

Who says it's elf-only?

Druids were only male night elf and they opened them female and tauren.
Paladin were only human and they opened to other races.
Monks were pandaren only and they opened to other races.

They only case is Demon Hunters and that was only because production resources. For each extra race they would need to do:
- Add extra skins.
- Adjust the customization (horns, blindfolds, tattoos, etc)
- Create 4 extra demon forms (2 male, 2 female).

They limited just to Night and Blood Elves because they would need to only do it for 4 models, and the demon forms were shared (I think only the colors change)

[czarek]

Isnt that simply a recolored monk actually ? And imo the biggest problem is they are stricted tight to NE. They simply NE elite police units.

[OwenBurton]

Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. I appreciate it. Please leave your comments, and suggestions. I will update this thread over time to better flesh out the concept and add ideas as I come up with them.

Special thanks to Blizzard, Wowhead, and other sources from which I pulled various art and ideas.

Wow, this is a really nice write-up, not sure how you even made something so detailed!!

I think it's a decent proposal (in theory), I mean, lots of players were very skeptical of a "demon hunter" class, and even back in Vanilla, they were saying it would NEVER happen, and yet, here we are. Think how most players back then would have been shocked by the pandaren monk class for example.

Wardens I think are close to rogues (or at least closest to them), but they might also be an unique hybrid class also similar to Priestesses of the Moon.

[Vaedan]

It's funny to see Teriz propose such a class concept, even though he wasn't that long ago, quite opposed to a warden related class.

I think this concept is fine, and i would play it.

Though it misses some ideas i would bring into such a class, most notably the inclusion of spellbreakers themes, mechanics and styles (1h+shield dps).
But that is bias on my side, and really wanting that magical melee fighter.

I believe he saw that the concept had support and was well received (contrary to his Cryptlord idea), so he adopted it.
He even used a spellbreaker ability Control Magic, which is also funny.

Objectively speaking, this is not a bad concept, it certainly could work.
I still prefer your Enforcer concept, as it was more versatile and gave me better fantasy overall... Plus archer spec.

[Varodoc]

Maiev doesn't even have a fraction of Illidan's popularity and relevance to the overall story.

Illidan is literally Top 5 Most popular characters in the entire franchise. Maiev doesn't even come close.

Demon Hunters and Wardens are incomparable.

[Enrif]

I believe he saw that the concept had support and was well received (contrary to his Cryptlord idea), so he adopted it.
He even used a spellbreaker ability Control Magic, which is also funny.

Objectively speaking, this is not a bad concept, it certainly could work.
I still prefer your Enforcer concept, as it was more versatile and gave me better fantasy overall... Plus archer spec.

I gave a lot of shit towards Teriz in the other thread. So seeing him change tune, not only for his attitude towards that class concept but also the bickering that happend in the other thread, shows great personal growth and i wouldn't cut that short.

Yeah, i like my concept more too, but this is bias because i created it.
His version has as much potential. In the end, if we get a class in that direction, it will probably land somewhere inbetween.

[Teriz]

Who says it's elf-only?

Druids were only male night elf and they opened them female and tauren.
Paladin were only human and they opened to other races.
Monks were pandaren only and they opened to other races.

They only case is Demon Hunters and that was only because production resources. For each extra race they would need to do:
- Add extra skins.
- Adjust the customization (horns, blindfolds, tattoos, etc)
- Create 4 extra demon forms (2 male, 2 female).

They limited just to Night and Blood Elves because they would need to only do it for 4 models, and the demon forms were shared (I think only the colors change)

TBF, this class also might be limited to Elves if it is introduced in Midnight, which is a story of the Elven tribes unifying together against the Void. However, it'll be 4 races instead of just 2 as in the Demon Hunter class. It's also important to note that all these years later, the DH class is still only NE and BE.

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Isnt that simply a recolored monk actually ? And imo the biggest problem is they are stricted tight to NE. They simply NE elite police units.

I don't believe so. This class is more based on the Moonblade, throwing blades, Restricting movements, Shadowporting, and venoms. As for being strictly tied to NEs, that might not be the case going forward, since they've begun to expand their ranks at the end of Dragonflight.

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Wow, this is a really nice write-up, not sure how you even made something so detailed!!

I think it's a decent proposal (in theory), I mean, lots of players were very skeptical of a "demon hunter" class, and even back in Vanilla, they were saying it would NEVER happen, and yet, here we are. Think how most players back then would have been shocked by the pandaren monk class for example.

Wardens I think are close to rogues (or at least closest to them), but they might also be an unique hybrid class also similar to Priestesses of the Moon.

Thank you for the kind words. They are appreciated.

While Wardens would definitely have some similarities to Rogues, there are a few things that set them apart. Mainly that they're utilizing heavier armor (which is why tanking is possible), utilize a unique weapon, have a sub-theme based around containment, and has a necromancy-like ability in Vengeance.

Speaking of Vengeance, I could see it be a permanent pet that follows the Warden around raising corpses into Spirits of Vengeance for a short amount of time.

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Maiev doesn't even have a fraction of Illidan's popularity and relevance to the overall story.

Illidan is literally Top 5 Most popular characters in the entire franchise. Maiev doesn't even come close.

Demon Hunters and Wardens are incomparable.

Maiev definitely isn't as popular as Illidan, but she's up there. Heck, we just had Blizzard push players to spend a year working towards getting the armor or Maiev's class. You don't do something like that unless you're dealing with a very popular character. There's a lot of Warcraft players out there who are more than willing to roll a Warden, and Blizzard knows it.

As for being incomparable, I would argue that Demon Hunters and Wardens have this natural duality with each other that would simply fuel Warden adoption numbers. I could see quite a few players roll Wardens just to harass Demon Hunter players.

With that said, if you can name another major Elven character that is shadow-aligned that has Maiev's level of popularity (outside of Alleria), I'm all ears.

[Varodoc]

Maiev definitely isn't as popular as Illidan, but she's up there. Heck, we just had Blizzard push players to spend a year working towards getting the armor or Maiev's class. You don't do something like that unless you're dealing with a very popular character. There's a lot of Warcraft players out there who are more than willing to roll a Warden, and Blizzard knows it.

As for being incomparable, I would argue that Demon Hunters and Wardens have this natural duality with each other that would simply fuel Warden adoption numbers. I could see quite a few players roll Wardens just to harass Demon Hunter players.

With that said, if you can name another major Elven character that is shadow-aligned that has Maiev's level of popularity (outside of Alleria), I'm all ears.

This is a very shallow view of the lore.

It's not like someone is automatically associated with the Void just because they have "Shadow" in their surname, that's nonsense.

Maiev has literally never dealt with the Void. Her enemies were Demons. She has absolutely no connection to the Void.

[Teriz]

This is a very shallow view of the lore.

It's not like someone is automatically associated with the Void just because they have "Shadow" in their surname, that's nonsense.

Maiev has literally never dealt with the Void. Her enemies were Demons. She has absolutely no connection to the Void.

But my point still stands; This;



Works as a cover for WoW:Midnight. That being the case, any other lore quibble really doesn't matter because it can be adjusted accordingly, just like it has for every class before it.

[Varodoc]

But my point still stands; This;

Works as a cover for WoW:Midnight. That being the case, any other lore quibble really doesn't matter because it can be adjusted accordingly, just like it has for every class before it.

I disagree completely.

The setting for Midnight is Quel'Thalas, thus it doesn't make sense to have a Night Elf on the cover, because they are not the inhabitants of Quel'Thalas.

There's also no reason why Alleria can't be featured on the cover for two expansions in a row.

[meroes]

You can’t even talk about Illidan without Maiev though, you know his jailer. Most of the criticisms aren’t even good. And idk why they are saying it’s all about Maiev, it can be from the Jailer and domination magic too. Like do these “experts” know Maiev uses domination magic in hearthstone? So we have lore going back to Illidan, the Jailer who uses jail magic that is already established to be connected to Wardens via at least Hearthstone and probably more, a need for a new class at some point, and nothing else as viable on the table.

Even if Wardens don’t happen these criticisms are so weak. Good job.

[Varodoc]

You can’t even talk about Illidan without Maiev though, you know his jailer. Most of the criticisms aren’t even good. And idk why they are saying it’s all about Maiev, it can be from the Jailer and domination magic too. Like do these “experts” know Maiev uses domination magic in hearthstone? So we have lore going back to Illidan, the Jailer who uses jail magic that is already established to be connected to Wardens via at least Hearthstone and probably more, a need for a new class at some point, and nothing else as viable on the table.

Even if Wardens don’t happen these criticisms are so weak. Good job.

You do realize that Maiev in Hearthstone is classified as a Rogue, right?

[meroes]

There's also no reason why Alleria can't be featured on the cover for two expansions in a row.

Says the person with a Windrunner avatar

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You do realize that Maiev in Hearthstone is classified as a Rogue, right?

You ever played HS battlegrounds where her hero uses domination to jail minions for a few turns? guessing not…what’s accurate to say is in one game mode the rogue class has her as a bonus avatar. And in another game mode she is an actual hero, not a reskin avatar, and uses domination magic as her power.

[Varodoc]

Says the person with a Windrunner avatar

What does that have to do with anything?

Also, Maiev in Hearthstone is a Rogue. By bringing up Hearthstone, you concede that you agree that Maiev is a Rogue.

You ever played HS battlegrounds Where her hero uses domination. guessing not…

Irrelevant.

What class is Maiev in Hearthstone? Answer this question.