Warden Class Concept 2024 (Long)

[Lynexia]

cool write up but it'll never happen.

[vizzle]

Does this mean next week we get another thread on bards?

That's how it works, right? You guys take turns?

[Teriz]

I disagree completely.

The setting for Midnight is Quel'Thalas, thus it doesn't make sense to have a Night Elf on the cover, because they are not the inhabitants of Quel'Thalas.

Sure it does, since Night Elves are the original elves of Azeroth from which all elves originated. Further, while the story takes place in Quel'thalas, it revolves around us unifying the elven tribes, and for all we know, it could be Maiev who pushes that unification partially through her Wardens.

There's also no reason why Alleria can't be featured on the cover for two expansions in a row.

Maybe. However it would make more sense to have a different prominent elf on the cover. Another elf that utilizes shadowy abilities that could also offer us a new hero class.

[Enrif]

What class is Maiev in Hearthstone? Answer this question.

She's neutral
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Maiev_Shadowsong

https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...iev_Shadowsong

https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...iev_Shadowsong
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(64540)
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(64541)
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(64542)
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(90031)
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(90032)

[meroes]

What does that have to do with anything?

Also, Maiev in Hearthstone is a Rogue. By bringing up Hearthstone, you concede that you agree that Maiev is a Rogue.



Irrelevant.

What class is Maiev in Hearthstone? Answer this question.

Oh right, and Renethal in WoW who has a mana bar yet is a warrior skin is thus a warrior. No I wont for a second concede this, I'm not biased.

HS inarguably shows Maiev can use domination magic. The base hero, no skin, no ambiguity about class. Just Maiev. She is also skin for rogues, but as I have said, a skin for a class in one game mode is just that, a skin. Else warriors have mana and I'll be submitting a bug report to Blizz.

[Varodoc]

Oh right, and Renethal in WoW who has a mana bar yet is a warrior skin is thus a warrior. No I wont for a second concede this, I'm not biased.

HS inarguably shows Maiev can use domination magic. The base hero, no skin, no ambiguity about class. Just Maiev. She is also skin for rogues, but as I have said, a skin for a class in one game mode is just that, a skin. Else warriors have mana and I'll be submitting a bug report to Blizz.

Yeah, No, that's not how it works. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

If you want to take Hearthstone as gospel because it gave Maiev Domination magic (which is a thing only in that game), you can't ignore Hearthstone putting Maiev in the Rogue class.

You can't cherry-pick. That's not how the world works.

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Sure it does, since Night Elves are the original elves of Azeroth from which all elves originated. Further, while the story takes place in Quel'thalas, it revolves around us unifying the elven tribes, and for all we know, it could be Maiev who pushes that unification partially through her Wardens.

And the Night Elves themselves are evolved Trolls.

So Talanji should be on the box of Midnight?

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She's neutral
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Maiev_Shadowsong

https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...iev_Shadowsong

https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...iev_Shadowsong
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(64540)
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(64541)
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(64542)
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(90031)
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...owsong_(90032)

You don't understand what Neutral card is. It has nothing to do with the character's class, it has to do with the fact that the character is given to every class' deck. That doesn't change the class of the character itself, it involves the deck that character is available to.

Cairne Bloodhoof is also a Neutral card. Are you going to say that Cairne is not a Warrior?

Alexstrasza is a Neutral card. Then, you disagree with Teriz that she is an Evoker?

Youthful Brewmaster, literally with Chen Stormstout image, is a Neutral card. So it's not a Monk?

And so on.

The actual Maiev character is a Hero of the ROGUE class.

https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...dowsong_(hero)

[Z3ROR]

Another class that's only for Elves. I would add more races though. I think Worgen, Troll or Zandalari Troll would fit too.

[meroes]

Yeah, No, that's not how it works. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

If you want to take Hearthstone as gospel because it gave Maiev Domination magic (which is a thing only in that game), you can't ignore Hearthstone putting Maiev in the Rogue class.

You can't cherry-pick. That's not how the world works.

It's not a choice to accept HS or not. It has been the primary source for things that make it to WoW. Not everything in HS makes it or correlates to WoW. These are inarguable.

In HS the case for Maiev being a rogue is weaker than her having domination magic <-- This part is the only part up for debate. I'd be happy to let the jury decide. A skin vs. a hero. There is no cake an eating it too. There is a weaker case and a stronger case. Again, skins can have mana users being warriors. Heroes are heroes however.

[Varodoc]

It's not a choice to accept HS or not. It has been the primary source for things that make it to WoW. Not everything in HS makes it or correlates to WoW. These are inarguable.

In HS the case for Maiev being a rogue is weaker than her having domination magic <-- This part is the only part up for debate. I'd be happy to let the jury decide. A skin vs. a hero. There is no cake an eating it too. There is a weaker case and a stronger case. Again, skins can have mana users being warriors. Heroes are heroes however.

Maiev having Domination spell in Hearthstone mode doesn't contradict the fact that Maiev is classified as a Rogue in HS.

It simply means that Rogue in WoW should get one or two spells centred around Domination magic (which would also fit their reputation as the Kings of CC chains and stun-locking).

[meroes]

Maiev having Domination spell in Hearthstone mode doesn't contradict the fact that Maiev is classified as a Rogue in HS.

It simply means that Rogue in WoW should get one or two spells centred around Domination magic (which would also fit their reputation as the Kings of CC chains and stun-locking).

Ya I'm done

[Enrif]

You don't understand what Neutral card is. It has nothing to do with the character's class, it has to do with the fact that the character is given to every class' deck. That doesn't change the class of the character itself, it involves the deck that character is available to.

Cairne Bloodhoof is also a Neutral card. Are you going to say that Cairne is not a Warrior?

Alexstrasza is a Neutral card. Then, you disagree with Teriz that she is an Evoker?

Youthful Brewmaster, literally with Chen Stormstout image, is a Neutral card. So it's not a Monk?

And so on.

You are nitpicking the wrong things.
Chen is neutral because Hearthstone has no monk class. There is also no Evoker class in Hearthstone.

But let's take another look.
Varian has a neutral card. But he also has a warrior card!
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/...g_of_Stormwind
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Varian_Wrynn

How about Tirion?
Paladin.
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Tirion_Fordring

And what about deathwing? He is a warrior because there is a deathwing warrior skin?
https://hearthstone.fandom.com/wiki/Deathwing_(hero)


A skin for the hero is a cosmetic, like a transmog in WoW. It has no mechanical bearing.
The cards on the other hand, are hard facts and mechanics.

Maiev is not a rogue.
And her mercenaries version has skills that are not rogue at all
Single-Minded Pursuit
Coup de Grâce
Imprison
Charged Glaive
Eye of the Watchers
Warden's Shroud

compare that the the basic rogue hero Valeera. Who also has a mercenaries version
Sinister Strike
Ambush
Fan of Knives
Shadow Dagger
Hidden Paths
Unnatural Smoke


Very different.

[czarek]

I don't believe so. This class is more based on the Moonblade, throwing blades, Restricting movements, Shadowporting, and venoms. As for being strictly tied to NEs, that might not be the case going forward, since they've begun to expand their ranks at the end of Dragonflight.

"Lore Description: The Warden class in World of Warcraft is deeply rooted in the Night Elf culture and their connection to the moon goddess Elune" - at this moment lore is here. Im not sure how they can add another species to became part of this culture.

[Enrif]

"Lore Description: The Warden class in World of Warcraft is deeply rooted in the Night Elf culture and their connection to the moon goddess Elune" - at this moment lore is here. Im not sure how they can add another species to became part of this culture.

Like they did for druids, shamans, paladins, demon hunter, monks...

The night elf heritage deals with change, a young male night elf becomes a sentinel and got markings which were reserved for females.
Tyrande and Malfurion are giving the leadership up to the next generation (kinda, Shandris is also over 10k years old)
The new home of the night elves is not blessed by the dragons, but it blessed the dragons, and is connected to the realm of death.


Or like Garrosh once said: Times change.

[pacotaco]

Isnt that simply a recolored monk actually ? And imo the biggest problem is they are stricted tight to NE. They simply NE elite police units.

Didn't you read my comment? It's just right before yours.
Druids were NE only too and see how many races can be druid now.

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Maiev doesn't even have a fraction of Illidan's popularity and relevance to the overall story.

Illidan is literally Top 5 Most popular characters in the entire franchise. Maiev doesn't even come close.

Demon Hunters and Wardens are incomparable.

I think she was probably more known than Chen and we got monk before DH. Character popularity is not the only factor to add a class to the game.

[Teriz]

And the Night Elves themselves are evolved Trolls.

So Talanji should be on the box of Midnight?

No, it’s an elf-centric expansion, and trolls are not elves, but Maiev is, and Wardens are an elf-centric class.

Further, we don’t know how many years have passed between Dragonflight and the World Soul Saga. Maiev could very well be in Quel’thalas training Wardens herself by that point.

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Like they did for druids, shamans, paladins, demon hunter, monks...

The night elf heritage deals with change, a young male night elf becomes a sentinel and got markings which were reserved for females.
Tyrande and Malfurion are giving the leadership up to the next generation (kinda, Shandris is also over 10k years old)
The new home of the night elves is not blessed by the dragons, but it blessed the dragons, and is connected to the realm of death.


Or like Garrosh once said: Times change.

Pretty much. Again, I have serious doubts that Blizzard did that Warden armor thing just because.

[pacotaco]

You do realize that Maiev in Hearthstone is classified as a Rogue, right?

And Sylvannas is classified as hunter, Kel'Thuzad and Onyxia as mages, Tyrande as priest, the Thunder King, Vashj and Ragnaros as shaman, N'Zoth as warlock, and Deathwing and Denathrius as warriors.
Don't take HS as a perfect representation of classes.

[Varodoc]

And Sylvannas is classified as hunter, Kel'Thuzad and Onyxia as mages, Tyrande as priest, the Thunder King, Vashj and Ragnaros as shaman, N'Zoth as warlock, and Deathwing and Denathrius as warriors.
Don't take HS as a perfect representation of classes.

In fact, I'm not.

As I'm not the one who originally brought up Hearthstone.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Congratulations, I really like your concept.

In the end, if we get a class in that direction, it will probably land somewhere inbetween.

I really like yours too.

Well, the elves might decide to create an elite unit inspired by their special forces to counter the Void and Azshara as a symbol of their unification.

Every elven culture would contribute. So we could have a mix between Quel'dorei Spellbreakers, Kal'dorei Warden, Shal'dorei Spellblades and Ren'dorei Void Hunter (?).

[Vaedan]

I just needed a little more evidence before I considered it a possibility. That evidence presented itself in the revelations in 10.2.5, and the Warden transmog which I had honestly forgotten about because it was revealed over a year ago. The armor's release and the Warden lore changes (which interestingly coincide with each other) gave me cause to go ahead and build this concept and consider it a likely future class.

The players who got the transmog set and are now complaining and bummed out that there's no class that fully matches the Warden kind of reinforces my belief that Blizzard plans to release this class in the very near future. Probably for Midnight.

As for Spellbreakers, while I like the idea behind it (along with Spellblades) forming the tank spec of a Warden class, I believe that the "chain" and "tether" concepts from HotS forming a more "jailer" type of gameplay might be a stronger theme for a Warden tank. That said, if they do create a Warden class that uses a shield for a tank, I wouldn't be shocked.

You may also consider adding Tyrande's Night Warrior flavor and abilities, potentially to a Seeker spec. Tyrande used several glaive throw moves and she also still use astral magic.
Also Night Warrior and Wardens are similar in their pursuit of vengeance.

Also some inspiration could be taken from Council of the Moon in Tomb of Sargaeras.

One thing I don't really understand in your concept is that tank spec is labeled as Sun, but its abilities are not solar themed. It is confusing a bit and it seems that the sun, moon, astral description is not reflected in actual design.

[Teriz]

You may also consider adding Tyrande's Night Warrior flavor and abilities, potentially to a Seeker spec. Tyrande used several glaive throw moves and she also still use astral magic.
Also Night Warrior and Wardens are similar in their pursuit of vengeance.

My issue with Night Warrior is that it reminds me too much of Demon Hunter. Further, I want the class to have a physical/magical ranged spec that can "rope in" Nightborne concepts. I figure that due to the proximity of Maiev's headquarters to Suramar, it would make sense that the class would have some Nightborne influences.

Also some inspiration could be taken from Council of the Moon in Tomb of Sargaeras.

I'll look into it. Thanks!

One thing I don't really understand in your concept is that tank spec is labeled as Sun, but its abilities are not solar themed. It is confusing a bit and it seems that the sun, moon, astral description is not reflected in actual design.

That's a remnant from a previous concept that I had considered where the Warden "sun" spec is more aligned with Blood Elves and Divine (Holy/Arcane) magic. However, while researching this concept, I preferred the "Jailor" vibes I was getting from HotS and I felt that that was more appropriate for a Warden tank spec.

The Sun, Moon, and Stars concept is something I'm still working through because I don't want it to become a Paladin. However for now, I removed it from the concept.