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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    the more time i can invest into a game, the more success i will have (usually, but especially in mmos). so players with less time on their hands are already at a disadvantage compared to others who can nolife it.
    False. Time is not equall to skill or success. Both in video games and in real life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joveon Lightbringer View Post
    Tokens have their issues, but are better than the rampant gold-selling we had before. At their best, tokens are a way for those with more time than money to farm gold for those with more money than time.
    Rampant gold seeling now is on such big scale that all chinese miners combined would wish to have it.
    Its like having pests problem and nuking town from orbit to solve that issue.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    False. Time is not equall to skill or success. Both in video games and in real life.
    This is just demonstrably false how can one even be this out of touch?

    why do you think people practice?

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    False. Time is not equall to skill or success. Both in video games and in real life.
    thats just an immensely stupid take. if that were true, why would anyone practice anything?
    as an example let a chess grandmaster play against some complete newbie and tell me that time doesnt factor into it.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    This is just demonstrably false how can one even be this out of touch?

    why do you think people practice?
    Oh the irony...
    Practice give you absolutely NOTHING unless you can learn from it. And most people dont learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    thats just an immensely stupid take. if that were true, why would anyone practice anything?
    as an example let a chess grandmaster play against some complete newbie and tell me that time doesnt factor into it.
    Somebody can play 60 years and still lose to a guy who played for 1 year. If you dont learn, you dont improve. Even if you have all the time in the universe.
    To learn you need to understand where you made mistakes, why you made them, how you can not make those mistakes and if those mistakes were even mistakes. Improving is such a big topic that dilluting it into "lol, throw time and you will get better" is immensly stupid take.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Oh the irony...
    Practice give you absolutely NOTHING unless you can learn from it. And most people dont learn.
    The only irony is how out of touch you seem to be with your r/Im14andthisisdeep lol

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    False. Time is not equall to skill or success. Both in video games and in real life.
    This thread is full of some pretty awful takes but this might actually be the worst. Come on man.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    im not for P2W, im just showing how your argument about "everyone should be on equal footing" is just not working, because that is an utopia.
    hy it isn't working? Yes, it's an utopia. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make games more fun and less P2W/money-dependant.

    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    and yes, it does matter. the more time i can invest into a game, the more success i will have (usually, but especially in mmos). so players with less time on their hands are already at a disadvantage compared to others who can nolife it.
    That's not entirely true, maybe in games that requires HEAVY grind, but not in WoW(and many other games) though.

    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    thats just an immensely stupid take. if that were true, why would anyone practice anything?
    as an example let a chess grandmaster play against some complete newbie and tell me that time doesnt factor into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    This is just demonstrably false how can one even be this out of touch?

    why do you think people practice?

    He's kinda right though.

    There's a difference in taking time to do the same things all over again and taking time to master ability/skill.
    Practice(that requires time) makes perfect, that's a fact. But there's also some kind of treshold how much one can learn/sacrifice/put effort to reach their goal.

    We're discussing WoW, so let's focus on that:
    People who are doing 3x 4h normal raids per week won't be as good/have as good gear as people who are doing 2x3h mythic raiding.
    Last edited by Eazy; 2024-02-25 at 09:52 AM.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    He's kinda right though.
    .
    He's not though, just being pedantic over semantics lol. The person who take time and practices their craft will 99/100 times be better than the person who did not.
    Last edited by Ereb; 2024-02-25 at 02:13 PM.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by lagiacrux View Post
    thats just an immensely stupid take. if that were true, why would anyone practice anything?
    as an example let a chess grandmaster play against some complete newbie and tell me that time doesnt factor into it.
    that may be true only if you percieve success as being succesfull while being employed and making money for someone else.

    in reality its mostly luck . you have to be lucky to be born in good country , in good family living in that country , then lucky with people you encounter and bound/network with .

    sure effort is important but luck is 10000 times more inportant when it comes to being succesfull in life.

    for each 1 succesfull person there is like 9999 unlucky people who put the same amount of effort but didnt have nessesary luck , didnt know right people etc so they will never make it to the top . they will be forgotten in history and nobody will know they existed. sure they may live a realitively ok life but they will never be really succesfull

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    He's not though, just being pedantic over semantics lol. The person who take time and practices their craft will 99/100 times be better than the person who did not.
    That's true. But people in video games(and in real life) aren't really practicing their crafts at the same pace. If that was true, then most of the older players would've been mythic raiders while the newbies would've been still doing normal/heroic.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    That's true. But people in video games(and in real life) aren't really practicing their crafts at the same pace. If that was true, then most of the older players would've been mythic raiders while the newbies would've been still doing normal/heroic.
    Of all the stupid and pedantic things to argue about...

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    That's true. But people in video games(and in real life) aren't really practicing their crafts at the same pace. If that was true, then most of the older players would've been mythic raiders while the newbies would've been still doing normal/heroic.
    you could argue that most of practicing is worthless in games like wow unless you play on extremly high level .

    why ? because unless you are MDI player and twitch streamer living of wow you get literaly nothing out of it.

    you complete like +25 ? next to nobody cares in reality besides you yourself - unless you make a living from streaming- and there is 99,9999% chance you dont.

  13. #113
    WoW is the only video game I play so arguments like "you can buy a new game for XX amount of moneys" isn't valid argument to justify price points in WoW. WoW is not the only video game I play because I am a sad addict, it is because I gave up video games for a looong time including WoW, before deciding to get back into WoW. But I never got back into the other games. So I treat this as a hobby like my other hobbies, so spending $1000-$2000 a year in WoW is like, a bullshit low amount of money for the amount of entertainment it gives me.

  14. #114
    i never felt poor IRL players had a issue with tokens, they could play to earn more play time

    blizzard adding items, achieves or systems that drive the token price up has made the game where it's easier to pay to get thing done in game.

    although the tokens came in WOD, the introduction of 101 epic BOAs that would WF or TF, along with a socket proc or tert proc like +leech was actually M+0 gear. i got three pieces myself leveling first two players which i immediately put on AH fro 700K gold combined. the right TF 101 BOE with two procs could sell for 700K alone

    along with the legendary gear RNG and hidden cap, i remember a WOW stream where a person had to dump his WOD into Legion paladin and did 6 boosts to get the right two legendaries or lose his spot on a high end guild. this was more common than some can imagine.


    in BFA this continued with 111 BOEs at start and later 120 epic BOEs. blizzard did drop the supposed WF/TF system, but not really fresh BOEs that had socket, tert.. pr both started going into the millions also there was the 10mil gold mount, along with many 200-400K range mounts

    in SL there were no 51 BOEs but the 60 BOEs from the raids easily in the millions. players still called BOEs with a socket, tert as WF or both procs as TF

    DF all the crafting and recrafting, etc systems in the game drove the WOW token to over 400K+ in 2023, as of now showing 265K range, imo that is still high

    imo, i do not blame the player base and the economy within the game as a valid reason. WOW imo, i believe has moved to more of a phone game style, D4 type heavy it's better to pay and play then play to earn and play

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    Of all the stupid and pedantic things to argue about...
    Just wanted to clarify his point. I am pretty sure that he didnt mean "time" as practice, but rather something that you repeat over and over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    you could argue that most of practicing is worthless in games like wow unless you play on extremly high level .

    why ? because unless you are MDI player and twitch streamer living of wow you get literaly nothing out of it.

    you complete like +25 ? next to nobody cares in reality besides you yourself - unless you make a living from streaming- and there is 99,9999% chance you dont.
    Why should I care if anyone else care? I am the one who is playing the game, I should have fun, other people shouldn't be caring what I do in the game and what are my goals.

    What kind of comment is this lol
    Last edited by Eazy; 2024-02-26 at 09:38 AM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Ereb View Post
    Of all the stupid and pedantic things to argue about...
    Just admit you wanted to sound smart and edgy and it blow in your face. Learning experience, right here for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    WoW is the only video game I play so arguments like "you can buy a new game for XX amount of moneys" isn't valid argument to justify price points in WoW. WoW is not the only video game I play because I am a sad addict, it is because I gave up video games for a looong time including WoW, before deciding to get back into WoW. But I never got back into the other games. So I treat this as a hobby like my other hobbies, so spending $1000-$2000 a year in WoW is like, a bullshit low amount of money for the amount of entertainment it gives me.
    Yikes.
    Thats very expensive hobby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Just wanted to clarify his point. I am pretty sure that he didnt mean "time" as practice, but rather something that you repeat over and over again.
    Pretty much

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Yikes.
    Thats very expensive hobby.
    $1000 USD a year is not an expensive hobby to me. That ranks very very low.

    My other hobby of playing keyboard
    $400 - Alesis 88 key orchestral keyboard
    $40/week $160/month my keyboard teacher for adults. Comes to my house, made friends with him

    Then I am going to watch him play in New York this year with his big band, IDK how much airfare and hotel stays in Long Island will be.. probably +$2000 or more?

    I wouldn't even call amateur playing of a digital piano an expensive hobby either. But it occupies 1/4th of my time playing WoW does.

    WoW, very cheap hobby by my standards even without store and tokens.

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