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  1. #81
    honestly they should make legendries more common and add artifact weapons to take the rarity place of the current legendary gear

    Have them be the rare drops off bosses in heroic and above raid so you'll have mostly epic and maybe 2 or 3 leggos and then the lucky few will get artifact gear.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Posters are not allowed to express their dissatisfaction, whether it's justified or not, because it disturbs my echo chamber.

    See, I can put words into someone else's mouth too.
    Except, y'know the two concepts you described aren't "intrinsically the same thing." There is a difference between boosting and account sharing and pretending they're the same so that you can justify being upset with Blizzard for having inconsistent standards is, well, a bit weird.

    Also, what echo chamber? I have an issue with bad argumentation used to support bad arguments. That doesn't mean I want a positivity echo chamber. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to be upset with Blizzard the direction they're taking the game but there are also a lot of really bad reasons and I take issue with the latter.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2024-03-02 at 06:47 PM.

  3. #83
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    that doesn't mean I want a positivity echo chamber.
    Of course you don't. That's why 8 or 9 out of 10 of your posts are nothing but belittling, mocking and generally trying to deflect any criticism towards Blizz by means of gaslighting. But you do you /shrug

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    honestly they should make legendries more common and add artifact weapons to take the rarity place of the current legendary gear

    Have them be the rare drops off bosses in heroic and above raid so you'll have mostly epic and maybe 2 or 3 leggos and then the lucky few will get artifact gear.
    That would do nothing but pushing the current rarity tier one step above. So far, the MoP/WoD way of obtaining legendaries is the best you can do in a highly competitive MMO. Legion's raw RNG could have worked too, if there hadn't been such a massive delta power between the various legiondaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    Of course you don't. That's why 8 or 9 out of 10 of your posts are nothing but belittling, mocking and generally trying to deflect any criticism towards Blizz by means of gaslighting. But you do you /shrug
    You really have a problem with words having meanings that differ from your interpretation of them, don't you? Me expressing my opinions isn't gaslighting. I'm not manipulating anybody by exposing the flaws I find in their argumentation. Also, I really shouldn't have to say this but me taking issue with criticism of Blizzard is not a defense. These are not binary concepts. Disingenuously reducing it to black and white is how you actually get an echo chamber.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2024-03-03 at 01:11 AM.

  5. #85
    The Mage Tower was no means to progression. It was a skill and gear check.

  6. #86
    Terrible, for a few reasons.

    To start with, everyone would be expected to have it. Every pug will demand you have the legendary as well as ilvl. It will basically be MoPs proving grounds all over again, and that failed hard.

    All content will be balanced around players having the legendary. Those without the legendary will be in for a shit time, especially if its acquisition will be as difficult as the current mage towers. You will probably only see around half the playerbase with legendaries.

    It'll probably create a massive divide in the playerbase as well. All the scrublords without legendaries, and all the tryhards with it. Those without the legendary will bitch about how hard the game is and quit. Blizzard has now lost half of its playerbase.

    Those that want to play and gear alts will also be forced to run the mage tower just to get their 'mandatory' legendary before they can do anything else. Considering the route of alt accessibility we've seen in the last year or so, that won't go down well.

    So, no, I wouldn't do mage tower. I would prefer the questline route of Val'anyr, Shadowmourne and Staff of Tarecgosa myself.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Guyviroth View Post
    Terrible, for a few reasons.

    To start with, everyone would be expected to have it. Every pug will demand you have the legendary as well as ilvl. It will basically be MoPs proving grounds all over again, and that failed hard.

    All content will be balanced around players having the legendary. Those without the legendary will be in for a shit time, especially if its acquisition will be as difficult as the current mage towers. You will probably only see around half the playerbase with legendaries.

    It'll probably create a massive divide in the playerbase as well. All the scrublords without legendaries, and all the tryhards with it. Those without the legendary will bitch about how hard the game is and quit. Blizzard has now lost half of its playerbase.

    Those that want to play and gear alts will also be forced to run the mage tower just to get their 'mandatory' legendary before they can do anything else. Considering the route of alt accessibility we've seen in the last year or so, that won't go down well.

    So, no, I wouldn't do mage tower. I would prefer the questline route of Val'anyr, Shadowmourne and Staff of Tarecgosa myself.

    Just make them like legion at the end. Random and with a currency for bad luck protection to "get the one everyone says you should have or else you are bad at wow".

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    The Mage Tower was no means to progression. It was a skill and gear check.
    Which I think would be fine. It means the most skillful would complete it the soonest, with others gradually catching up as their skill and gear allowed. Is that not how it should be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyviroth View Post
    Terrible, for a few reasons.

    To start with, everyone would be expected to have it. Every pug will demand you have the legendary as well as ilvl. It will basically be MoPs proving grounds all over again, and that failed hard.

    All content will be balanced around players having the legendary. Those without the legendary will be in for a shit time, especially if its acquisition will be as difficult as the current mage towers. You will probably only see around half the playerbase with legendaries.

    It'll probably create a massive divide in the playerbase as well. All the scrublords without legendaries, and all the tryhards with it. Those without the legendary will bitch about how hard the game is and quit. Blizzard has now lost half of its playerbase.

    Those that want to play and gear alts will also be forced to run the mage tower just to get their 'mandatory' legendary before they can do anything else. Considering the route of alt accessibility we've seen in the last year or so, that won't go down well.

    So, no, I wouldn't do mage tower. I would prefer the questline route of Val'anyr, Shadowmourne and Staff of Tarecgosa myself.
    Honestly trying to understand: You're advocating for a system where it's easy for everyone to get, so skillful players are not distinguished from less skilled players. More of a social, let everyone have fun kind-of-thing. Not judging, I promise. I mean, I guess we have to decide what we want legendaries to be. Are they a reward for skillful play, or a feel-good toy Blizz just bakes in to tuning and the over-all expansion. So everyone would have it, but all the content would tuned around everyone having it, so balance-wise it would be like no one had it. More of an expansion feature (like dragon-flying) than a power-up.

    "I Am Vengeance. I Am The Night. I Am Felfáádaern!"

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Joveon Lightbringer View Post
    Which I think would be fine. It means the most skillful would complete it the soonest, with others gradually catching up as their skill and gear allowed. Is that not how it should be?
    More like those with the best gear, while the best gear is limited to raids and mythic+ currently. Means, the developers waste effort for something like a gear and skill check rather than adding progression for everyone. They should fix the most common problem first before they add posing gameplay for the best equipped. That's actually called "elitism".

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    That would do nothing but pushing the current rarity tier one step above. So far, the MoP/WoD way of obtaining legendaries is the best you can do in a highly competitive MMO. Legion's raw RNG could have worked too, if there hadn't been such a massive delta power between the various legiondaries.
    That's only because you are unable see items as anything more than they currently are so you think it just means an iLvl increase on the same gear.

  11. #91
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    That's only because you are unable see items as anything more than they currently are so you think it just means an iLvl increase on the same gear.
    ... What?
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  12. #92
    I don't hate the idea.

  13. #93

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    ... What?
    You don't see the benefits of having more gear rarity levels and don't understand how gear could be changed with that.

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    The thing is.... it should. There should be a chill game mode for the people who don't wanna do content

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    The thing is.... it should. There should be a chill game mode for the people who don't wanna do content
    What... difficult content should make players rise to the occasion? This is literally a "the game is fine, it's the players who are broken" argument.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    What... difficult content should make players rise to the occasion? This is literally a "the game is fine, it's the players who are broken" argument.
    I tend to look at Mythic raiding as way to force people to do better, normal is around for those who lack the skill or ability or dedication. I look at mythic raiding as i do a Kings Field or Dark Souls game and expect as much from it. Not everything in the game is for everyone, i do not pvp and its wildly popular since blizzard is doing tournys for it.

    Speaking souls like games Lies of P has been bloody brilliant.
    Last edited by jeezusisacasual; 2024-03-05 at 06:56 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Joveon Lightbringer View Post
    Which I think would be fine. It means the most skillful would complete it the soonest, with others gradually catching up as their skill and gear allowed. Is that not how it should be?

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    Honestly trying to understand: You're advocating for a system where it's easy for everyone to get, so skillful players are not distinguished from less skilled players. More of a social, let everyone have fun kind-of-thing. Not judging, I promise. I mean, I guess we have to decide what we want legendaries to be. Are they a reward for skillful play, or a feel-good toy Blizz just bakes in to tuning and the over-all expansion. So everyone would have it, but all the content would tuned around everyone having it, so balance-wise it would be like no one had it. More of an expansion feature (like dragon-flying) than a power-up.
    Well... yes, I am, for the reasons listed in my post. Legendaries have never been about skill, only luck, time, money, and in a few instances cooperation.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    What... difficult content should make players rise to the occasion? This is literally a "the game is fine, it's the players who are broken" argument.
    Because the game is fine.

    There should be difficulty levels for all players but in an online game the rewards need to be better in the harder content. Players like to feel like they are getting something for the time investment of doing harder content. It doesn't matter if that content is fun for them or not they want to feel like their effort mattered to them and their character.

    Why would anyone do mythic content if it offered the same rewards as heroic content?

    This is because of an inherent low level competitive drive to be better than others at things that comes with online games. The issue comes when there's no way to really prove you're better.

    Players should want to be the best they can. Too many people are just content with stopping once they clear heroic raids now, it's boring af. As much as I hate stupid shit like wiping on emerald council for 3 hours (after having it on farm for 4 weeks) because people can't get it together today. I still enjoy the challenge of pushing myself as far as I can go. I think like this and I'm by no means a hardcore raider.

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