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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Sure, and in the end all P2W games like WoW and Lost Ark are like that. You don't have to take part in it and maybe it doesn't even affect you and your play style. For other people it can be a big deal, everyone is different.
    All games are P2W using this extremely flawed reasoning.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    All games are P2W using this extremely flawed reasoning.
    Yeah, it is flawed reasoning to say all games are p2w only because it is an option in some.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Altmer View Post
    And people here tell me that the WoW Token is not a pay to win. And with just using your credit card, you can get mounts, gear and many other items from the AH (that are super rare drops or raid drops) to win the game.
    it isn't P2W because P2W u spend way less than wow to get best gear, and since a while even most P2W game on mobile give u access to everything, just u need 100k gem to get it, a free player get 100 a day while a whale gets 10k
    in wow u pay u get 0.1k a day and if u don't pay u get 0.001 a day with current prices, want a ring pay over 30k usd (which literally did happen and while it did cause a storm, it was way calmer than it should be)

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    Yeah, it is flawed reasoning to say all games are p2w only because it is an option in some.
    i don't remember any P2W in It Takes Two...
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    i don't remember any P2W in It Takes Two...
    Or in BG3.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by allegrian View Post
    Since the WoW token has been available, and especially after the easy gold expansions like WoD + Legion, just buying a WoW token and selling it for ~300.000 gold is the easiest and cheapest way to get gold considering time/money and a normal salary. While lots of guides show how yo earn X gold per hour ingame, if you translate it as real money per hour, any normal job provides much more and makes that time spent farming gold feel like a waste.

    For people with jobs, spending so much time grinding for few gold while they can just buy a token feels like a waste. That's why I just buy wow tokens as they're a legitimate way to earn gold and I avoid the economy and grinding, but at the same time, it feels like the game has less to offer as I just stop caring about gathering professions or gold rewards from quests and crafts. When I got Fyralath, I just bought a token for the mats, and will probably do the same to buy a few of the new items from NPC at the BMAH that sell for 100.000 gold.

    I've been recently playing classic era/sod, where the WoW token is not available and unless you buy RMT gold, you have to play the old way with gathering professions, AH and max level quests. It makes you be part of and care about the economy and overall it feels more inmersive and satisfying when you earn gold.

    What do you think about this? Would you prefer to be forced to earn the gold ingame like in the old days?
    No it didn't people buying tokens for 10000€ are not people i play with. Because the don't play. They buy a boost and that is that. Never to be ssen by anyone.

    Economy is a bot problem which is not a token problem.

    As relapses allready said. Poeple here tend to associate everything they don't like in the game with the token. Same with the so called "harcore players" who dare to raid twice a week in heroic or set a foot into mythic.
    Everything is their fault when they look for a scapegoat instead of just admitting that they just don't like the game anymore for a long time and should just go to another game or maybe not play MMOs anymore.
    There will NEVER be another classic, tbc or wotlk. Never. Live with it.

    Stop blaming the token that has next to no effect on gameplay whatsoever.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    All games are P2W using this extremely flawed reasoning.
    FF14, Metal Gear Solid, Helldivers, Fortnite, Skyrim, Super Mario World. Yeah all games are P2W for sure, or no wait it's only the really fucking shitty ones with disgusting greedy fucks running the show

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    All games are P2W using this extremely flawed reasoning.
    I think what you miss in this discussion is the aspect of endorsement. WoW was not P2W before the token because Blizzard actively worked against gold-selling. Yes, you could still buy gold and buy power with that gold, but it was against the TOS and Blizzards position on gold-selling.

    Once Blizzard got into the gold-selling (or shifting, whatever) business and endorsed buying gold, with which you can buy power, the game became P2W because the producer of the game now allowed the practice.

    Blizzard's position on the selling of gold is what makes the difference, IMO. It's a nuanced look at the argument, rather than a strictly technical one.
    He/Him

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    FF14, Metal Gear Solid, Helldivers, Fortnite, Skyrim, Super Mario World. Yeah all games are P2W for sure, or no wait it's only the really fucking shitty ones with disgusting greedy fucks running the show
    Lmfao oh man you're so fucking gullible it's actually adorable.

    "No capitalism in MY games (unless it's the kind of capitalism I like then it's okay and actually based)!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    I think what you miss in this discussion is the aspect of endorsement. WoW was not P2W before the token because Blizzard actively worked against gold-selling. Yes, you could still buy gold and buy power with that gold, but it was against the TOS and Blizzards position on gold-selling.

    Once Blizzard got into the gold-selling (or shifting, whatever) business and endorsed buying gold, with which you can buy power, the game became P2W because the producer of the game now allowed the practice.

    Blizzard's position on the selling of gold is what makes the difference, IMO. It's a nuanced look at the argument, rather than a strictly technical one.
    Their position on selling gold never changed because they're not selling gold. They're making $5 off the people who buy tokens to exchange gold for a subscription. RMT is still illegal though I won't disagree that a knock-on effect of the token is that RMT is a lot safer than it was prior to the token. In the grand scheme of things, though, this is still representing single digit percentage points of their total revenue and is hardly something worth getting bent out of shape over. The alternative to the token is much worse.

  9. #269
    i couldnt care less about the wow token. what killed WoW is called shadowlands and should be just ignored in the future

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by VMSmith View Post
    I think what you miss in this discussion is the aspect of endorsement. WoW was not P2W before the token because Blizzard actively worked against gold-selling. Yes, you could still buy gold and buy power with that gold, but it was against the TOS and Blizzards position on gold-selling.

    Once Blizzard got into the gold-selling (or shifting, whatever) business and endorsed buying gold, with which you can buy power, the game became P2W because the producer of the game now allowed the practice.

    Blizzard's position on the selling of gold is what makes the difference, IMO. It's a nuanced look at the argument, rather than a strictly technical one.
    I truly envy your ignorance on RMT on online games lol. You'd probably shit bricks knowing how common high-end players in both PvE and PvP (let alone other games) let players pay them for carries (or at least a tag-along) with their raids or groups. You know what boosting is, yeah? Hella common and I wonder whose boosting those players... rofl.

    Meaningful P2W is Lost Ark and other games like that. Where shit is barred from you because you didn't pay enough money or grinded out 500 hours of things to just fall behind if you didn't swipe your credit card. WoW's P2W is largely Blizzard trying to take a slice of that gold seller cake. And it isn't even the main attraction to what is actually 'P2W' for the game.

  11. #271
    No because gold buying has always been a thing. It will always be a thing, in every game with currency that can be farmed and traded.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Sure, and in the end all P2W games like WoW and Lost Ark are like that. You don't have to take part in it and maybe it doesn't even affect you and your play style. For other people it can be a big deal, everyone is different.
    If you think wow is on par with friggin lost ark you are the lost one lol

  13. #273
    Funny thing: Last night(EU) in SOD, some repeatable new quests awarded 5gold and lots of exp so some people got like 1000 gold and fast level 50 in a few hours at phase 3 release. They nerfed it hard and they only give 1 gold now. So they basically destroyed the economy and made hours and hours of grinding and playing AH worthless.

    I now miss the token/retail where this doesn't affect the unlucky players that missed out on the exploit.

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