2024 Election - Trump vs. Harris, important downballot

[Paranoid Android]

Harris and Walz excited people by going to the left of Biden, not adopting his moderate platform. Shifting to the right this early odd. Silly even. Appealing to the right has only ever make the more comfortable voting Republican.

If the Republicans weren't trash the speech would be a gift.

Seriously. Wtf.

I really need to let it sink and discuss more tomorrow. Besides guaranteeing abortion protection everything else was moderate or to the right.

This is early 2000s Republican.

[cubby]

Stop! Some of you just have to stop.

So the 5Head strategy is to sucker the pro-Israel voters to vote for her then when in office she will do this almost flip policy. She gave a speech any Republican would have done prior to 2016. I guess if you want Republican Party 2.0 then Kamal seems it.

To be clear, I understand that Americans don't give a FUCK about the Palestinian people. It hurts my heart deeply, but the majority of cease fire. After all these years the people and especially any political party is so deep in the pocket of Israel. I watched how starting with protests and media defending every time that it must be anti-semitism if you protest against a government.

Most here in just want to win. Yeah I don't want fascism but we can do both of defeating Trump and at least not letting some country commit genocide.



My goodness. You think again going right of the Republicans on the military will garner votes? How many times have we talked about this? Plus maybe you love Neo Con policy but I remember when the Democrats didn't want to expand military, foreign policy over the world.

My brain is mush and I already forgot here speech on foreign policy. But she was talking being a military power, Fucking up Iran cause they are terrorist(?).

No. We're not going to stop. We have to get Harris in, period, then work policy.

This has nothing to do with the Palestinian people, and everything to do with literally saving democracy. What I don't give a fuck about right now is anything outside of this election, but it won't fucking matter if Trump wins.

How do you still not comprehend that?

[Kathranis]

I do want to say, apart from the bog standard support of Israeli "self defense," her line about Palestinian self determination was a strong statement compared to what most other politicians have come out with, even AOC, though I think it kind of got lost in the sabre rattling about strengthening our military and standing up against Iran.

I also don't think I was imagining that it got the loudest applause of the entire speech. Was I?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Did people really think Kamala Harris' Israel Policy was going to be any different than Joe Biden's?

[Milchshake]

Did people really think Kamala Harris' Israel Policy was going to be any different than Joe Biden's?

Have you met the Fetterman fanbois from early 2022?

[Kathranis]

Did people really think Kamala Harris' Israel Policy was going to be any different than Joe Biden's?

I think people were hopeful after the Walz pick that she would be more willing to lean left, but tonight (not just her speech but the lineup of speakers) seemed almost more tailored to capture wavering conservatives than to speak to the progressive base, which is a pivot from earlier messaging, even the previous days.

Without having gone online to check the discourse I can guess that the left wing of the party will be feeling disillusioned tonight.

[Tech614]

are you fucking for real with this? this genocide has been going on for almost a year now.

A year?

You think the genocide started in 2023?

The wide spread protests started then, lol. The genocide has been happening for decades at this point. The median age in Gaza was 18 BEFORE October 7th. How do you think it was so low to begin with?

This shows how stupid your protest is if you really think this shit started a year ago. Who the fuck where you voting for across the entire ballot and in primaries long before this? Cause unless it was a slew of pro Palestine candidates your calls are falling on deaf ears with me, he who thinks this genocide started in 2023.

[Xyonai]

I think people were hopeful after the Walz pick that she would be more willing to lean left, but tonight (not just her speech but the lineup of speakers) seemed almost more tailored to capture wavering conservatives than to speak to the progressive base, which is a pivot from earlier messaging, even the previous days.

Without having gone online to check the discourse I can guess that the left wing of the party will be feeling disillusioned tonight.

The attitude of twitter folk seems to range from 'About as enthused as they were before Biden Dropped out' and 'Deeply, and vocally, disappointed, but pragmatically plugging their noses. I haven't checked Reddit spaces yet, though the big news subreddits usually range from at least moderately to slavishly pro-israel so I don't think the attitude there has changed much.

[Tech614]

I think people were hopeful after the Walz pick that she would be more willing to lean left

Walz's stance on Israel is not any different than Biden's. What are you talking about lol.

[Zaydin]

DonOld does not seem to be doing well now that the DNC is over and is deep in denial.

[Kathranis]

The attitude of twitter folk seems to range from 'About as enthused as they were before Biden Dropped out' and 'Deeply, and vocally, disappointed, but pragmatically plugging their noses. I haven't checked Reddit spaces yet, though the big news subreddits usually range from at least moderately to slavishly pro-israel so I don't think the attitude there has changed much.

I think she was okay on Gaza, it was the rest of the speech that was weak to me. She glossed over policy, didn't bring up the child tax credit or price gouging, healthcare, etc., and instead leaned into projecting military strength and calling for a referendum on Trump. Hell, I don't even think her lines on abortion were that strong.

The thing is, I think her more left-leaning policies are actually what appeals to people. Walz did a great job of presenting progressive policy positions as neighborliness in his speech. And Walz unironically has higher favorability ratings than her, so... y'know. Walz is actually the way I've gotten through to right-leaning people in my life, and a close friend of mine has managed to persuade the Trump-voting father of his godson over to Harris via Walz, too.

That all said, I get that this speech was to cast a wide net because she had a larger audience tonight than she probably will otherwise. So I'm trying to keep in mind that it wasn't really for me.


As far as speeches go, she nailed the delivery. Though I unironically think Biden's speech on Monday was the best of the convention, and the most moving. Who'd a thunk it?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I think people were hopeful after the Walz pick that she would be more willing to lean left, but tonight (not just her speech but the lineup of speakers) seemed almost more tailored to capture wavering conservatives than to speak to the progressive base, which is a pivot from earlier messaging, even the previous days.

It's not a pivot though. That's the brand. Centrism.

[Teriz]

Wow She is gong crazy with Israel. She went hard into Hamas killing Israel citizens, mentioning rape, etc. Israel has right to defend itself, a self proclamation that Israel can do whatever I guess. Then she soft plays Palestinian people as "they are suffering". Yeah no genocide and intentional suffering by Israel.

She went like full Neo Con on foreign policy. Boasting a big military and still being world police. Holy shit!

It blows my mind that people don't understand this.

The US has a history of doing exactly what Israel did after it gets sneak attacked like it did on Oct. 7th: the US goes in and completely obliterates everyone associated with the initial attack. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the US retaliated 6 months later by firebombing a city full of civilians. They continued to firebomb Japan throughout the war, killing hundreds of thousands of people and culminated that mass slaughter with 2 nuclear bombs on mainly civilian targets. We bombed the shit out of Germany too, killing plenty of German civilians. We also did it in Korea and Vietnam. After 9/11, the US bombed Afghanistan and Iraq for decades, killing civilians on a consistent basis.

So after Israel was attacked on Oct. 7th, and Israel started leveling the entire Gaza Strip, Americans as a whole weren't particularly surprised or shocked. Some Americans don't even view it as a genocide, because to them, it's all collateral damage. No different than what their military has been doing for almost a century. If we're being REALLY honest about it, Americans don't want a cease fire because Palestinian civilians are dying. They want a ceasefire because they don't want a wider Middle Eastern war that's going to directly to affect them.

[Xyonai]

I think she was okay on Gaza, it was the rest of the speech that was weak to me. She glossed over policy, didn't bring up the child tax credit or price gouging, healthcare, etc., and instead leaned into projecting military strength and calling for a referendum on Trump. Hell, I don't even think her lines on abortion were that strong.

The thing is, I think her more left-leaning policies are actually what appeals to people. Walz did a great job of presenting progressive policy positions as neighborliness in his speech. And Walz unironically has higher favorability ratings than her, so... y'know. Walz is actually the way I've gotten through to right-leaning people in my life, and a close friend of mine has managed to persuade the Trump-voting father of his godson over to Harris via Walz, too.

That all said, I get that this speech was to cast a wide net because she had a larger audience tonight than she probably will otherwise. So I'm trying to keep in mind that it wasn't really for me.

One can -hope- that they'll be keen to feedback and adjust their messaging moving forward, but still that little note about Gaza's more than we've managed to choke out of the entire Democrat establishment in almost a year so maybe more pressure will get them to actually acknowledge the concerns of the 'I think Genocide is bad actually??' people rather than act like they're just whiny children. Especially if it puts their victory in jeopardy.

Though, frankly, the sudden 'Rah Rah Military!' stuff makes me feel like she's looking at the situation around Iran and Israel, suspects some tomfoolery is gonna kick off soon, and wants to coach the American people into being ready for the reality of it in case one of them is stupid enough to escalate.

[Tech614]

It blows my mind that people don't understand this.

The US has a history of doing exactly what Israel did after it gets sneak attacked like it did on Oct. 7th: the US goes in and completely obliterates everyone associated with the initial attack. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the US retaliated 6 months later by firebombing a city full of civilians. They continued to firebomb Japan throughout the war, killing hundreds of thousands of people and culminated that mass slaughter with 2 nuclear bombs on mainly civilian targets. We bombed the shit out of Germany too, killing plenty of German civilians. We also did it in Korea and Vietnam. After 9/11, the US bombed Afghanistan and Iraq for decades, killing civilians on a consistent basis.

So after Israel was attacked on Oct. 7th, and Israel started leveling the entire Gaza Strip, Americans as a whole weren't particularly surprised or shocked. Some Americans don't even view it as a genocide, because to them, it's all collateral damage. No different than what their military has been doing for almost a century. If we're being REALLY honest about it, Americans don't want a cease fire because Palestinian civilians are dying. They want a ceasefire because they don't want a wider Middle Eastern war that's going to directly to affect them.

The US also has a history of assisting genocides, see Yemen. Except people didn't want to protest that one for whatever reason.

Grifters stay grifting.

[Kathranis]

Oh, two things that did stand out to me as potentially potent:

"Trump Tax" and "Opportunity Economy."

I kinda forgot about them as she transitioned into the foreign policy shit that rubbed me the wrong way, but that's killer rhetoric. Especially intrinsically linking a tax hike on the middle class to Trump's name brand.

[Teriz]

The US also has a history of assisting genocides, see Yemen. Except people didn't want to protest that one for whatever reason.

Grifters stay grifting.

Not surprising. We assisted the Holocaust until Germany declared war on us.

As for the protests being a grift, I have heard rumors that some of the backers have dubious motives. Them not protesting the RNC on any level close to the DNC is definitely suspicious.

[PACOX]

Walz's stance on Israel is not any different than Biden's. What are you talking about lol.

You know evey point of critique isn't about Israel right?

[Kathranis]

The US also has a history of assisting genocides, see Yemen. Except people didn't want to protest that one for whatever reason.

Grifters stay grifting.

Sorry, but who is grifting on the side of Gaza, exactly? The right is where all the money is. I'm not seeing wealthy donors and oligarchs pouring money into left wing activism, but you've got tens of millions of dollars flowing into right wing outlets and groups like the Daily Wire, Prager U, and TPUSA.

Say what you will about the protesters, that they're ineffective or misguided if that's what you think, but they're out their putting themselves in physical danger and at risk of being arrested, kicked out of school, or losing their jobs. There are literal Zionist groups that dox protesters, and keep in mind that some states have nuts speech laws about criticizing the Israeli government.

I just don't really see what they have to gain there, if you think it's being done out of self interest.

[Aphelios]

No. We're not going to stop. We have to get Harris in, period, then work policy.

This has nothing to do with the Palestinian people, and everything to do with literally saving democracy. What I don't give a fuck about right now is anything outside of this election, but it won't fucking matter if Trump wins.

How do you still not comprehend that?

Just get Trump in and he will fix everything. You're actually pro-Trump but you just don't realize it yet.