2024 Election - Trump vs. Harris, important downballot

[schwarzkopf]

Post debate remember this one thing:

Biden : Chaotic Good Doddering old fool you can get rid of.
Trump: Chaotic Evil Doddering old fool you can't get rid of.

[Milchshake]

Short of Biden kicking the bucket before the election, he's going to be the Democratic candidate. He was going to be the democratic candidate this entire time, ever since his win in 2020. Anyone thinking otherwise was deluding themselves.

Attempt to move the conversation on from there, because it's really tiring.

These are people still mad about the 2016 primaries. Brigading the thread after they got whipped up after the Chapo podcast.

[Odinfrost]

Can someone tell me why people act like only Biden is presented as old?
Have everyone forgotten another sign of being old is rambling and forgetting what you talk about so you go off-topic? Trump is an old man yelling at clouds

[Kaleredar]

Post debate remember this one thing:

Biden : Chaotic Good Doddering old fool you can get rid of.
Trump: Chaotic Evil Doddering old fool you can't get rid of.

I'll add on even further.

Trump: Choatic Evil Doddering old fool you can't get rid of who's also attempting to open a portal to Hell.

[unfilteredJW]

Can someone tell me why people act like only Biden is presented as old?
Have everyone forgotten another sign of being old is rambling and forgetting what you talk about so you go off-topic? Trump is an old man yelling at clouds

You'll notice who is doing it and check the posting history, it makes a lot more sense.

Flaccid ineffectual people that rant online about change but don't do a damn thing to facilitate said changes.

[Kaleredar]

Can someone tell me why people act like only Biden is presented as old?
Have everyone forgotten another sign of being old is rambling and forgetting what you talk about so you go off-topic? Trump is an old man yelling at clouds

And much like polling, I'd be curious to see how this "performance" stacks up with how the debates supposedly "went" between Trump and Hillary in 2016 and Trump and Biden for the 2020 election.

I don't remember a lot of people saying "Biden sharply and adroitly excoriated Trump in the 2020 debate with great alacrity and verbosity. Obviously, his perspicacious performance propelled his prospects towards a perfectly predictable presidency." In fact I remember those being described as a "shitshow, for both candidates.

[tehdang]

Incorrect. Swapping out Biden now would not work, as he's already won the primaries. There is no mechanism for "swapping out a candidate" at this stage. Period.

Step 1: Party leaders persuade Biden to step down prior to convention. They present him with a list of dozens of signatures in the party leadership that ask him to step down so another can take his spot.

Do I need to go further? Look into past Democratic conventions where a vote was held to free delegates from their prior commitment to vote for a candidate.

If Biden is adamant at still being the party's nominee, it will be very difficult to do it. Which is why I say the most likely first step is persuading Biden to not seek the nomination at the convention.

"It doesn't matter that Trump is completely full of shit, Biden looks old and that's just the worst."

If I'm to divine your intent here, you mean to say that Biden looking old at the debate didn't overshadow Trump's performance?. From what I'm reading in this thread and on the post-debate panels, I think you're in the minority for that stance.

Naw, you need to find another avatar more ...

Anything on topic? Just for funsies. You can go back to my avatar, or screen name, or signature, or whatever else you feel like right afterwards if you really feel that's your focus.

More for Cubby, NYT:

President Biden hoped to build fresh momentum for his re-election bid by agreeing to debate nearly two months before he is to be formally nominated. Instead, his halting and disjointed performance on Thursday night prompted a wave of panic among Democrats and reopened discussion of whether he should be the nominee at all.

Over the course of 90 minutes, a raspy-voiced Mr. Biden struggled to deliver his lines and counter a sharp though deeply dishonest former President Donald J. Trump, raising doubts about the incumbent president’s ability to wage a vigorous and competitive campaign four months before the election. Rather than dispel concerns about his age, Mr. Biden, 81, made it the central issue.

Democrats who have defended the president for months against his doubters — including members of his own administration — traded frenzied phone calls and text messages within minutes of the start of the debate as it became clear that Mr. Biden was not at his sharpest. Practically in despair, some took to social media to express shock, while others privately discussed among themselves whether it was too late to persuade the president to step aside in favor of a younger candidate.

“Biden is about to face a crescendo of calls to step aside,” said a veteran Democratic strategist who has staunchly backed Mr. Biden publicly. “Joe had a deep well of affection among Democrats. It has run dry.”

“Parties exist to win,” this Democrat continued. “The man on the stage with Trump cannot win. The fear of Trump stifled criticism of Biden. Now that same fear is going to fuel calls for him to step down.”

A group of House Democrats said they were watching the debate together, and one, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, acknowledged that it was a “disaster” for Mr. Biden. The person said the group was discussing the need for a new presidential nominee.

Mark Buell, a prominent donor for Mr. Biden and the Democratic Party, said after the debate that the president had to strongly consider whether he is the best person to be the nominee. “Do we have time to put somebody else in there?” Mr. Buell said.

He added that he was not yet calling for Mr. Biden to withdraw but that “Democratic leadership has a responsibility to go to the White House and clearly show what America’s thinking, because democracy is at stake here and we’re all nervous.”

Mr. Biden’s goal in accepting a general election debate earlier than ever held in presidential history was to recalibrate the contest as a choice between himself and a felon who tried to overturn an election and would in his view destroy American democracy if given the power of the presidency again. Mr. Biden left the CNN studio in Atlanta instead facing a referendum on himself and his capacity that will reverberate for days if not longer.

Also, feel free to criticize all these party members speaking anonymously. But I think you can see enough here to change from "There is no mechanism for "swapping out a candidate" at this stage. Period." to "Prominent Democrats are most likely seeking a coalition to ask Mr Biden to step aside right this moment, and selecting the most promising candidate to get behind at the convention."

NYT
WaPo
Politico
(Remember, I'm linking non-right-wing outlets so you don't have to take my word for how Democrats perceive the convention in light of the debate. These aren't Republicans being interviewed and saying that Democrats are in a panic right now.)

[Nastard]

We had some real gem quotes in this debate though. Who ever expected a Presidential Candidate would need to refute that they did not commit adultery and have sex with a porn star.

"Trump molested a woman and paid to have sex with a porn star"
"I didn't have sex with a porn star!"

Can't help but notice he didn't deny the molestation.

[Kaleredar]

"Trump molested a woman and paid to have sex with a porn star"
"I didn't have sex with a porn star!"

Can't help but notice he didn't deny the molestation.

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure he's now legally on the record for having done both those things.

Like, you could print it on every billboard across the country, and I don't think Trump could act at all. It's public record.

[Benggaul]

Inb4 the inevitable run-by shitposting from the usual suspects, because you know regardless of how the debate goes the same 3-4 cowards who like to post "lol Biden bad" before scuttling away again to avoid failing to defend their position will be in here trolling.

I won't be watching, both because I'll be at work and because I think it's a pointless exercise anyway, but my prediction is that Biden will be competent but sluggish, probably get a couple facts wrong that the right will jump on and hold aloft for the next week as if it's Gollum's precious. Meanwhile Trump will be a slurring, incomprehensible mess rattling off conspiracy theory after conspiracy theory in the form of "catchy" slogans and it won't matter what he says because he'll say it with what will be mistaken as "high energy" and the right will declare he won the debate (small) hands down. Trump will continue blasting the debate after the fact as "unfair" because *waves arms* "Reasons!"

Hey! Looks I like I totally fucking called it!

[schwarzkopf]

[uuuhname]

Short of Biden kicking the bucket before the election, he's going to be the Democratic candidate. He was going to be the democratic candidate this entire time, ever since his win in 2020. Anyone thinking otherwise was deluding themselves.

Attempt to move the conversation on from there, because it's really tiring.

to which I say: see you in November. see how well this goes for you. because even other democrats are shocked by this performance. even they cannot gaslight themselves into thinking otherwise.

[Kaleredar]

to which I say: see you in November. see how well this goes for you. because even other democrats are shocked by this performance. even they cannot gaslight themselves into thinking otherwise.

Mmhmm and what were these same people saying in the 2020 debates?

Like I said above. Pretty sure I recall everyone saying they were a "shitshow for all involved."

[Somewhatconcerned]

Step 1: Party leaders persuade Biden to step down prior to convention. They present him with a list of dozens of signatures in the party leadership that ask him to step down so another can take his spot.

Do I need to go further? Look into past Democratic conventions where a vote was held to free delegates from their prior commitment to vote for a candidate.

If Biden is adamant at still being the party's nominee, it will be very difficult to do it. Which is why I say the most likely first step is persuading Biden to not seek the nomination at the convention.

If I'm to divine your intent here, you mean to say that Biden looking old at the debate didn't overshadow Trump's performance?. From what I'm reading in this thread and on the post-debate panels, I think you're in the minority for that stance.

Anything on topic? Just for funsies. You can go back to my avatar, or screen name, or signature, or whatever else you feel like right afterwards if you really feel that's your focus.

More for Cubby, NYT:
Also, feel free to criticize all these party members speaking anonymously. But I think you can see enough here to change from "There is no mechanism for "swapping out a candidate" at this stage. Period." to "Prominent Democrats are most likely seeking a coalition to ask Mr Biden to step aside right this moment, and selecting the most promising candidate to get behind at the convention."

NYT
WaPo
Politico
(Remember, I'm linking non-right-wing outlets so you don't have to take my word for how Democrats perceive the convention in light of the debate. These aren't Republicans being interviewed and saying that Democrats are in a panic right now.)

The Biden Cult won't respond.

[SAY HER NAME]

to which I say: see you in November. see how well this goes for you. because even other democrats are shocked by this performance. even they cannot gaslight themselves into thinking otherwise.

I sometimes wonder what is the sentiment behind these sort of posts. Like I get it if you are not American or if you are Republican, but if you arent then like whats the point? You are still going to suffer the consequences of the election and the new Trump administration. I dont have to be convinced by Joe Biden bc I support the democrat platform and thats fine by me

[uuuhname]

I dont have to be convinced by Joe Biden bc I support the democrat platform and thats fine by me

yeah I'm well enough aware because you're a Zionist piece of shit. not sure why I'm supposed to be impressed.

[Santti]

The Biden Cult won't respond.

Now that's just projecting. There is no such thing.

[NoiseTank13]

fucking hate this government, this clownshoe ass elections we don't even have a holiday for

god damn it lol I may be an alcoholic by the time this year is done

[Benggaul]

Now that's just projecting. There is no such thing.

No no, you don't understand, saying you would vote for Biden over Trump any day of the week because he's objectively better than Trump in every way must mean you're in a cult. It certainly isn't because Trump being in the White House for four more years would be more disastrous than a guy who "looks old" but surrounds himself with competent people so we take what we can get and hope for better options next time.

[SAY HER NAME]

yeah I'm well enough aware because you're a Zionist piece of shit. not sure why I'm supposed to be impressed.

You are aware that Trump is a giga zionist right? Like thats literally his selling point right now. Some people are so stupid lol