2024 Election - Trump vs. Harris, important downballot

[Edge-]

fucking hate this government, this clownshoe ass elections we don't even have a holiday for

god damn it lol I may be an alcoholic by the time this year is done

Welcome to the club, we have fun here. This is the best we can do as a nation, baby.

[tehdang]

The Biden Cult won't respond.

I think he'll come around. There aren't three or four outlets coming out with articles hours after the debate describing panic in the high circles of the Democratic party because (1) they're clueless about the impossibility of replacing Biden or (2) they're in a conspiracy with Republicans trying to spin Trump's debate performance or something.

If I'm coming at this issue from the Biden camp, his campaign has to send Biden himself on an interview circuit speaking coherently and pulling something like "I really felt off at that debate, couldn't nail Trump to the wall with his lies." They need Biden looking like he was at the State of the Union and in front of TV cameras pronto.

[Nastard]

Step 1: Party leaders persuade Biden to step down prior to convention. They present him with a list of dozens of signatures in the party leadership that ask him to step down so another can take his spot.

Do I need to go further?

I don't foresee this being a successful strategy in any reality. Step 2 would be where the party resoundingly loses the election because whether Biden steps down or not at that point, the opposing party is handed victory. One of two things would happen: Biden chooses to stay in the election anyway but news breaks that even his own party leadership has no faith in him. Voters aren't encouraged by what they see as a failing of leadership on multiple levels and the party loses. Or two, Biden backs out this late in the game to disastrous results as the party scrambles at the last second to replace him like a shirt you spilled wine on as you were walking out the door. Whether or not you feel Biden is unfit for office, there's no way either option would be successful now. It's too late.

The Biden Cult won't respond.

Hmm? Cult? I thought Biden was so unlikeable that he's unable to motivate anyone to care about him. Now he's so likeable that he has a religious following? Which is it? Oh oh, I get it! It's like how Biden has dementia and can't even tie his own shoelaces but is also an evil controlling mastermind. It's always convenient to fall back on the old tired "weak and strong at the same time" stereotype. No wonder your type always resorts to it.

[Somewhatconcerned]

I think he'll come around. There aren't three or four outlets coming out with articles hours after the debate describing panic in the high circles of the Democratic party because (1) they're clueless about the impossibility of replacing Biden or (2) they're in a conspiracy with Republicans trying to spin Trump's debate performance or something.

If I'm coming at this issue from the Biden camp, his campaign has to send Biden himself on an interview circuit speaking coherently and pulling something like "I really felt off at that debate, couldn't nail Trump to the wall with his lies." They need Biden looking like he was at the State of the Union and in front of TV cameras pronto.

They can't because Biden looks worse with every passing month.

[uuuhname]

You are aware that Trump is a giga zionist right? Like thats literally his selling point right now. Some people are so stupid lol

not nearly as stupid as thinking being vocally against the ongoing genocide in Gaza makes you a republican. really shows how lacking in... any political awareness? baseline understanding? you have.

it's almost as if I understand that no matter who wins, the bombs will not stop dropping.

Biden is out here saying that even protesting and calling for a ceasefire is anti-Semitic, just why the fuck are you even here. get lost.

[Gestopft]

These are people still mad about the 2016 primaries. Brigading the thread after they got whipped up after the Chapo podcast.

I dunno; I saw basically every Democrat on the CNN panel after the debate wringing their hands about how the Democrats could change candidates.

[uuuhname]

I dunno; I saw basically every Democrat on the CNN panel after the debate wringing their hands about how the Democrats could change candidates.

no no, those are clearly the chapo crew in disguise saying those things, they're in his walls!

[tehdang]

You are aware that Trump is a giga zionist right?

When he's not in a spat with Netanyahu, the currently elected leader of Israel, that is. And he could be sending nasty tweets that way, but then embracing him, on alternate weeks for an entire year.

I don't foresee this being a successful strategy in any reality. Step 2 would be where the party resoundingly loses the election because whether Biden steps down or not at that point, the opposing party is handed victory. One of two things would happen: Biden chooses to stay in the election anyway but news breaks that even his own party leadership has no faith in him. Voters aren't encouraged by what they see as a failing of leadership on multiple levels and the party loses. Or two, Biden backs out this late in the game to disastrous results as the party scrambles at the last second to replace him like a shirt you spilled wine on as you were walking out the door. Whether or not you feel Biden is unfit for office, there's no way either option would be successful now. It's too late.

Trump's got his vulnerabilities, and Democrats just need someone a bit more prepared to take advantage of them. You're right about the time angle. There's 53 days until the convention, and the donors and leaders will need to be uniting behind a single alternative (the default would be Kamala Harris). Then there's 75 days until the election. Not ideal, but possible and most likely the better option than uniting behind Biden. And Democrats have to go with their best shot at beating Trump.

Looking at this from the Democratic donor and party leader stance, I'd say they're already thinking that a Harris or Newsome or Whitmer or Pritzker or Polis or Shapiro could goad Trump into two more debates and nail him to the wall. Their youth and energy makes Trump's meandering responses and lies the real story of the debate. And Dems present to voters a newer face and get a free reset on a message towards voters. Not a lot of time to do it, but very possible. It's the best option right now. (Obviously, it would have been better if the campaign to replace him started after the Robert Hur moment or earlier. But I still think second best is do it now, while the convention is still over a month away)

They can't because Biden looks worse with every passing month.

If they can't send Biden to the cameras looking like SOTU Biden in the next couple of days, then it's going to be Joe & Jill Biden vs 60% or more of the Democratic party (I'm trying to be generous here) asking him to step aside for another candidate prior to the convention. I see Biden as having good days and bad days, and this wasn't a good day.

Weirdest thing, this is Biden immediately after the debate: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c51221...p-biden-speech
For whatever reason he looks so much more alive.

He does this for the whole debate and precisely 0 Democrats call for him to step aside.

[NED funded]

not nearly as stupid as thinking being vocally against the ongoing genocide in Gaza makes you a republican. really shows how lacking in... any political awareness? baseline understanding? you have.

it's almost as if I understand that no matter who wins, the bombs will not stop dropping.

Biden is out here saying that even protesting and calling for a ceasefire is anti-Semitic, just why the fuck are you even here. get lost.

I didnt call you a republican. I called you stupid bc you are. Too dumb to see that Trump is full on with Netanyahu. Biden proposes a ceasefire that is somewhat reasonable. Trump, the president that moved the US embassy to Jerusalem will surely be better.

I am fine tho. Just like when people insisted that you shouldnt use the supreme court nominations as extortion, palestine supporters will be humbled.

[Very Tired]

Weirdest thing, this is Biden immediately after the debate: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c51221...p-biden-speech
For whatever reason he looks so much more alive.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You are aware that Trump is a giga zionist right? Like thats literally his selling point right now. Some people are so stupid lol

i thought it was that he'd rather be electrocuted than eaten by sharks?

[uuuhname]

amazing how this entire genocide has been going on for months under Biden but no you guys, Trump will be so much worse on this, not that I even care about how many Palestinians are dead.

just actual scum fucks on this forum.


lower than dirt.

[unfilteredJW]

amazing how this entire genocide has been going on for months under Biden but no you guys, Trump will be so much worse on this, not that I even care about how many Palestinians are dead.

just actual scum fucks on this forum.


lower than dirt.

Answer the question, coward.

[DarkTZeratul]

amazing how this entire genocide has been going on for months under Biden

I'm quite certain this genocide has been going on under Netanyahu, the actual fucking leader of Israel.

but no you guys, Trump will be so much worse on this

While president Trump openly endorsed Israel's land grabs, and this past week he said we should "let Israel finish the job."

[uuuhname]

I'm quite certain this genocide has been going on under Netanyahu, the actual fucking leader of Israel.

While president Trump openly endorsed Israel's land grabs, and this past week he said we should "let Israel finish the job."

and who has been giving him weapons? shit for brains? I'm sorry I guess those trillions of dollars going to them just don't exist because you're just... not aware? who has called for sanctions against the ICC for trying to charge Netanyahu for war crimes? hmmmmm?

just because YOU are comfortable writing off on a genocide regardless of who is in office doesn't mean I am. crazy idea I know.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

amazing how this entire genocide has been going on for months under Biden but no you guys, Trump will be so much worse on this, not that I even care about how many Palestinians are dead.

just actual scum fucks on this forum.


lower than dirt.

Somebody needs a nap.

[Polgara]

Trump was allowed to just hammer out bullshit, nonsense and directly damaging lies and CNN just let that happen? I am gonna ignore Biden's weird slips and tangents because wtf "it will be fact checked" *two instances of timid responses to a swathe of bullshit*.

CNN wants Trump for ratings. They are equitable in this travesty IMO, fucking deplorable. Anyone without dipshit blinkers would be voting wholly AGAINST Trump but Trump voters aren't inclined to think unfortunately. Atrocious debate management.

[Odinfrost]

and who has been giving him weapons? shit for brains? I'm sorry I guess those trillions of dollars going to them just don't exist because you're just... not aware? who has called for sanctions against the ICC for trying to charge Netanyahu for war crimes? hmmmmm?

just because YOU are comfortable writing off on a genocide regardless of who is in office doesn't mean I am. crazy idea I know.

Let's not pretend that there would be much of a difference between Trump and Biden handling Israel.
Genociding Palestinians is like the only thing that both sides of Congress seem to agree on

[Gaidax]

Well that was something.

I'd say either dems bump off Biden and put someone who is not sleepwalking at helm or just roll with... this... and take an L.

[Nymrohd]

Eh no one watched this debate looking for facts. We have the facts. People watched this to see performance; ability to articulate facts and do so clearly. Yeah Trump is a lying liar who lies. But Biden was a flop last night. He is three years older, he looked a decade older.