2024 Election - Trump vs. Harris, important downballot

[gondrin]

Not the same thing, either. But also, that was only a few Republican Senators and a bit more than half of the House Republicans. The vote failed. The fact that they knew it was going to fail was probably why some of them felt okay voting for it, as a "show vote" for their constituents.

And that wasn't a vote for insurrection, or even for overturning the result, it was a vote to "investigate the objections". That's bullshit, of course, but again, it's not the same thing as voting to give Trump the presidency for life.

It's like... saying to a person "I wish someone would just kill you" is not the same thing as actually shooting them in the head. Both are bad, but one is objectively worse.

Thing is that even if there was a vote in 2025 by the House that has a slim Republican majority, it would still get voted down because there is a sizable number of them that actively will follow the Constitution in this matter. Along with the Democrats, a "investigate the objections" vote still wouldn't get through. It didn't get through in 2021, it won't get through again.

People seem to forget groups like the Freedom Caucus(pretty much the MAGA movement) is a small but extremely loud group. They are the vocal minority you see online that drown out the voices of everyone else.

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You mean like the 147 Republican congressmen who refused to certify the 2020 election despite hours before fleeing a literal lynch mob?

147 out of 435. About 33% of the actual house members. Right now, there are 220 Republicans, 212 Dems(2 democrats died recently and one republican resigned). If the same number of Republicans voted the same way again, it would fall far short of doing much of anything.

People also seem to forget that there are ALWAYS votes of objections to what the States send as their electoral counts. ALWAYS. Since at least Bill Clinton, there have been a number of House Members that have objected to a vote.

[PhaelixWW]

There's more.

Fact check: To attack Harris, Trump falsely describes new stats on immigrants and homicide

While there doesn't seem to be a year-by-year list for murders available, CNN did find something that suggests not only was Trump just as bad, he was worse.

In other words, the list grew about 10% between August 2016 and June 2021 — a roughly five-year period that included the four-year Trump administration — and then grew about another roughly 5% in the three-plus years under the Biden-Harris administration between June 2021 and July 2024.

Yup, called it:

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that that number is probably close to what it was back when Trump was president, too.

Thanks for the validation.

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147 out of 435.

147 out of 535.

That number included Senators, as well as House members.

[Breccia]

Thanks for the validation.

It would be dereliction of my ethics to not comment one way or the other. Simply put, the 13099 number is something willfully ill-informed people will scream at passing cars as if it has meaning, meaning which they've gone out of their way to avoid.

[Celista]

The best part of his "statistic" is that there is no timeframe of it. Was it in the past year? Past 4 years? Past decade? Past century? For any statistic like this, there also has to be an actual timeframe. Otherwise, it is worthless.

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Can you show evidence of this being a thing from a neutral official source? No left or right wing sources.

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Yes, it is delusional in the sense for the reasons that were given in this thread already.

Could they? Anything is possible. Are there a few that would want that? Most definitely. But the thing is that there are enough people in the country that will use the 2nd Amendment for its actual purpose, against a rogue government. And there are enough people out there that would have no issue assassinating someone trying to install themselves a dictator.

There have already been 2 attempts by people that supported him in some way currently or in the past. If the current GOP were to do this, there would be a far larger amount coming out of the woodwork to remove said person, from both sides.

I love how arrogant and condescending the posts on this site are lol.

The truth is you don’t know. I don’t know anything more than you do. But we do know that nearly half of this country supports a man who forcefully tried to overturn an election and a portion of that was aired live on air for all of us to see.

The fact that he may win another election should terrify you. But sure, I guess denial and cognitive dissonance is another option. For you.

[gondrin]

I love how arrogant and condescending the posts on this site are lol.

The truth is you don’t know. I don’t know anything more than you do. But we do know that nearly half of this country supports a man who forcefully tried to overturn an election and a portion of that was aired live on air for all of us to see.

The fact that he may win another election should terrify you. But sure, I guess denial and cognitive dissonance is another option. For you.

Not half of the country. Far less than that. About 55 - 60% of the voting age electorate actually vote in the US for the President. It is closer to 25 - 30%. Which is still bad in its own right.

However, this is nothing condescending about it. Yes, there are quite a few fascists in the US. There have ALWAYS been a lot of fascists in the US. That has never been up for debate. The thing is, there are FAR more that also have no issue taking out a person that put themselves in power without being elected. It is still a small minority of people who would actually want Trump installed. Out of the 42 - 45% of the people voting that support him, it is a far smaller amount that actively will support him being installed as a dictator. It seems like a far more would because that smaller amount is also the loudest voices in the room.

Let this sink in. There are a small, but sizable, number of people in the United States that absolutely have no issue using the 2nd Amendment for its purpose. To defend against a rogue government. They would have no issue assassinating someone that is installed and trying to assassinate the people who installed them.

[Endus]

Not half of the country. Far less than that. About 55 - 60% of the voting age electorate actually vote in the US for the President. It is closer to 25 - 30%. Which is still bad in its own right.

However, this is nothing condescending about it. Yes, there are quite a few fascists in the US. There have ALWAYS been a lot of fascists in the US. That has never been up for debate. The thing is, there are FAR more that also have no issue taking out a person that put themselves in power without being elected. It is still a small minority of people who would actually want Trump installed. Out of the 42 - 45% of the people voting that support him, it is a far smaller amount that actively will support him being installed as a dictator. It seems like a far more would because that smaller amount is also the loudest voices in the room.

Let this sink in. There are a small, but sizable, number of people in the United States that absolutely have no issue using the 2nd Amendment for its purpose. To defend against a rogue government. They would have no issue assassinating someone that is installed and trying to assassinate the people who installed them.

Americans really need to be sat down and made to deal with their history at some point. It sure seems like public education seems to avoid it.

At its founding, the USA was largely shaped by the interests of slavers. Many of the Founding Fathers were themselves slavers, and ensured that slavery was written directly into and protected by the Constitution, even before they got around to the Bill of Rights.

Once slavery was about to be abolished, they pre-emptively launched a massive civil war to protect their "right" to systemically abuse and subjugate entire peoples.

In the aftermath of the loss of that civil war, this attitude morphed into Jim Crow laws and segregation.

From there, into opposing the suffragette movement, and later the Civil Rights movement, among others.

The attitude has literally always been there. That deep-seated strong hatred and dehumanization of those designated as "other" by whatever arbitrary means. It's core to the American identity, and literally always has been, as one of its most central foundational "features" from the Declaration of Independence onwards. It isn't a new emergence, it isn't a change. All that's happened with Trumpism is that the polite mask it wore has been ripped off once again, and the would-be slavers who itch to hold a whip in their hands again are more willing to speak their true minds about all of it. But it's always been that. It's entirely and pretty uniquely American.

And it won't ever change until you, as a nation, decide that it's no longer acceptable. And you're so far from that point that one of your major parties champions that viewpoint openly.

[Captain N]

And it won't ever change until you, as a nation, decide that it's no longer acceptable. And you're so far from that point that one of your major parties champions that viewpoint openly.

It's funny that we've went from President's who said things like this:



*Courtesy of the WW2 Museum*

To Presidents that embrace ignorance and intolerance the same way the person FDR was leading a fight against did.

[Endus]

It's funny that we've went from President's who said things like this:



*Courtesy of the WW2 Museum*

To Presidents that embrace ignorance and intolerance the same way the person FDR was leading a fight against did.

Yeah, what I said up there I stand by, but it's harsh. It has to be harsh, but it should also be emphasized that it's only speaking to a subset of Americans. A lot of Americans are great people. I play D&D with a bunch of mostly Americans. My above screed should be taken as a "you need to talk about what to do about your racist uncle, because he ruins every goddamned barbeque he comes to and no one's ever called him out on his shit", rather than a "your entire family is trash and you should all die" or something.

[Gorsameth]

Americans really need to be sat down and made to deal with their history at some point. It sure seems like public education seems to avoid it.

At its founding, the USA was largely shaped by the interests of slavers. Many of the Founding Fathers were themselves slavers, and ensured that slavery was written directly into and protected by the Constitution, even before they got around to the Bill of Rights.

Once slavery was about to be abolished, they pre-emptively launched a massive civil war to protect their "right" to systemically abuse and subjugate entire peoples.

In the aftermath of the loss of that civil war, this attitude morphed into Jim Crow laws and segregation.

From there, into opposing the suffragette movement, and later the Civil Rights movement, among others.

The attitude has literally always been there. That deep-seated strong hatred and dehumanization of those designated as "other" by whatever arbitrary means. It's core to the American identity, and literally always has been, as one of its most central foundational "features" from the Declaration of Independence onwards. It isn't a new emergence, it isn't a change. All that's happened with Trumpism is that the polite mask it wore has been ripped off once again, and the would-be slavers who itch to hold a whip in their hands again are more willing to speak their true minds about all of it. But it's always been that. It's entirely and pretty uniquely American.

And it won't ever change until you, as a nation, decide that it's no longer acceptable. And you're so far from that point that one of your major parties champions that viewpoint openly.

Reconciliation following the civil war was the greatest mistake in American history.

[gondrin]

Yeah, what I said up there I stand by, but it's harsh. It has to be harsh, but it should also be emphasized that it's only speaking to a subset of Americans. A lot of Americans are great people. I play D&D with a bunch of mostly Americans. My above screed should be taken as a "you need to talk about what to do about your racist uncle, because he ruins every goddamned barbeque he comes to and no one's ever called him out on his shit", rather than a "your entire family is trash and you should all die" or something.

It definitely needs to be said. I am an American and anyone who has actively read any history on the US would know that the current GOP is just the recent iteration of something that has been around for centuries. It is nothing new nor has it ever been.

People are shocked that there is a minor but sizable portion of the US populace that is willing to support someone like Trump. If anyone has lived anywhere in the Rust Belt, the Midwest, the South and the like, it doesn't come as a shock. I live in, what is described as a small city in the Midwest, and I see it everyday. I've worked with people who, if I still worked with them, would be wearing the MAGA hat or supporting his racist immigration policies as they espoused them directly to me many times. I live next door to someone that is an active Trump supporter. However, I know many more people that are not and never will be supporters of those policies and parties who support them.

As I said earlier in the thread, and this is for anyone that thinks differently, the loudest in the MAGA party are also a small part of the electorate. They, as you said, are the racist uncle. Yes, he is loud and, if confronted, might get angry. But sometimes, you have to be willing to either eject him outright from the party or punch him in the mouth if nothing else works.

As far as the public education goes, in a lot of states, that is a purposeful thing to not teach about actual history of the US and it is actively being whitewashed away because some special snowflakes on the right are afraid of coming to terms with being a racist.

[Benggaul]

I mean, a large part of the reason the US was slow to get involved in WWII was because of the rampant fascism within the US itself. Then Pearl Harbor happened and jingoism nudged fascism aside for a while. It really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that fascism came storming back again, mostly but not entirely represented by the GOP.

[Valdhammer]

I love how arrogant and condescending the posts on this site are lol.

The truth is you don’t know. I don’t know anything more than you do. But we do know that nearly half of this country supports a man who forcefully tried to overturn an election and a portion of that was aired live on air for all of us to see.

The fact that he may win another election should terrify you. But sure, I guess denial and cognitive dissonance is another option. For you.

Yeah. Being realistic about the fact that HE IS THE FAVORITE and that it is also likely Republicans will control the House and Senate gets you ridiculed in a typical “AckShuaLly” fashion because “polls”.

I keep saying that this is a deeply diseased country and the disease is only getting worse. I say this from a vantage point of someone surrounded by Trump supporters who do not fit the standard mold. I live in a majority Asian area and just about all my neighbors have Trump flags flying. These are well educated upper middle class men AND women. If he is reaching them while not losing his base, then his appeal is much broader than people here like to admit.

And if he wins there’s a good chance Republicans do a clean sweep, meaning they would control all branches of the government. But yeah, let’s call them weird because it’s working!!

[PhaelixWW]

Being realistic about the fact that HE IS THE FAVORITE...

According to whom?

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Context:

The Economist:




538:




The Hill:




Race to the WH:

[Shadowferal]

And if he wins there’s a good chance Republicans do a clean sweep, meaning they would control all branches of the government. But yeah, let’s call them weird because it’s working!!

Big "if." I certainly wouldn't bet a farthing on it.
Senate is too close to call, and either way it'll be a seat or two difference.
The House is likely to go blue.

[PhaelixWW]

Heck, even Nate Silver is giving the edge to Harris now.

Forecast still in toss-up range, but we’re at a point where you’d probably rather have Harris’s hand to play.

[Shadowferal]

Trump to police; "You need one violent day"

You know, if you had one day, like, one real rough, nasty day with the drug stores as an example, where when they start walking out with – you know, she created something in San Francisco, $950, you’re allowed to steal. Anything above that. You will be prosecuted. Well, it works out that the 950 is a misnomer because you can steal whatever you want. You can go way above, but you’d see it. Originally you saw kids walk in with calculators. They would calculate. They didn’t want to go over the $950 they’re standing with calculators, adding it up.

You know, these are smart, smart people. They’re not so stupid, but they have to be taught. Now, if you had one really violent day, like a guy like Mike Kelly put him in charge, Congressman Kelly put him in charge for one day. Mike, would you say you’re right here? He’s a great congressman. Would you say, Mike, that if you were in charge you would say, “Oh, please don’t touch them. Don’t touch them. Let them rob your store. Let all these stores go out of business,” right? They don’t pay rent. The dead. The city does have the whole. It’s a chain of events. It’s so bad. One rough hour, and I mean real rough. The word will get out and it will end immediately. End immediately. You know? It will end immediately.

...gee..what a winning...something.

[Captain N]

Recent Trump speeches as of late are giving me bad English translations to Japanese video game vibes of the early 2000s. But All Your Base Are Belong To Us makes a whole lot more sense than anything he's spit out lately.

[gondrin]

Yeah. Being realistic about the fact that HE IS THE FAVORITE and that it is also likely Republicans will control the House and Senate gets you ridiculed in a typical “AckShuaLly” fashion because “polls”.

I keep saying that this is a deeply diseased country and the disease is only getting worse. I say this from a vantage point of someone surrounded by Trump supporters who do not fit the standard mold. I live in a majority Asian area and just about all my neighbors have Trump flags flying. These are well educated upper middle class men AND women. If he is reaching them while not losing his base, then his appeal is much broader than people here like to admit.

And if he wins there’s a good chance Republicans do a clean sweep, meaning they would control all branches of the government. But yeah, let’s call them weird because it’s working!!

You say they don't fit the standard mold.

Because they are Asian? That has very little to do with someone supporting Trump or not.

Here is a little fun fact. Upper middle class and other wealthy people ARE the standard mold for Republican voters. Regardless of race. If you saw a bunch of Harris signs, Bernie Sanders signs or anyone else other than a Republican candidate sign, that would be something that would go against the mold. Just because they are well educated has very little to do with much of much as there are a TON of well educated people that fall into a trap of cultism.

Also, show me one time that anyone here has not said that there isn't a chance that Trump would be reelected. The fact that the Presidential race is as close as it is says that things aren't right. The only people that are CERTAIN that Trump IS to be re-elected are the same ones that talk about polls. They are the same ones that dismiss any news that may show otherwise.

If Trump wins, he wins. I will have done my part by voting, by going up to others and trying to convince them to vote for ANYONE else and the like. But I cannot make them vote or force them to vote any other way. Instead of sitting down complaining on a forum, the best thing to do is to go out and actively talk to others and see why they want to vote for Trump. Is it because of his tax policies? Then find something that shows how they would lose out on those tax policies. Is it because of his immigration policies? Then find out something that would show how they would lose out on those policies. People vote for their own selfish or perceived selfish interests.

I have done this. If anything I've said changed their vote, great. If it didn't work, I tried and did my best. But outside of actually committing a crime and voting in their name, I did what I could do.

Remember, elections come down to a VERY small percentage of voters. Even a 1% sway can hand the election. The fact that the GOP was pushing to even get 1 Electoral vote in North Dakota by changing how they assign electoral votes says how close an election can be.

[Paranoid Android]

“I shouldn’t say this,” Donald Trump said at a rally Sunday, before continuing on anyways. “I know a lot about overtime. I hated to give overtime, I hated it. I’d get other—I shouldn’t say this–but I’d get other people in. I wouldn’t pay.”

https://x.com/thedailybeast/status/1...tBLMdPrBQ&s=19

My goodness any people. If you are a wage earner especially listen to what he is saying. This person is completely anti-labor.

Way to sit this one out Sean O'Brien.

Oh the funny but sad part. Trump stated one time if you earn overtime you pay no taxes. Well if you don't pay for overtime, you sure won't pay taxes.

[Valdhammer]

According to whom?

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Context:

The Economist:




538:




The Hill:




Race to the WH:

I am basing it on personal observations and on observations of friends and family around the country. It is anecdotal, of course, but the same evidence made me think he would win in 2016 and made me very optimistic in 2020.