2024 Election - Trump vs. Harris, important downballot

[Sunseeker]

Nah these people deserve to be mocked and called out for being terrible human beings that want to see other people suffer for their own selfish reasons. If you want to sit down at the table with a bunch of bigoted fascists....we'll that's just means there's one more sitting down at that table. Those folks don't deserve sympathy or compromise....they deserve to be ostracized and ridicule

Calling someone a fascist for supporting fascist positions and fascist people isnt even ridicule or mockery, ita fact. If they dont like being associated with some of the worst people in history, its on them to stop associating with some of the worst people in the present who model themselves on the worst people in history.

Republitwits are just butthurt that theyre catching instead of pitching the insults and derisions and negative associations. They have ZERO issue with comparing Democrats to Hitler, Stalin, or other other household name evildoer, theyre just mad the same is happening to them.

Also, once again, it isnt on Democrats to "save" Republicans. If they want to change, its up to them to show us they want to change. We can help them do it, but they gotta initiate.

[Edge-]

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/el...-20240927.html

Latest racist, right-wing misinformation campaign is underway in PA -

A Bala Cynwyd voter got a detailed letter this week from the made-up Pennsylvania Congressional Office of Immigration Affairs notifying her that her household had been selected to house five migrant refugees.

No office exists, nor does such a government-mandated housing program, but the letter, doctored to look like an official government document, provided specific details designed to mislead someone less attuned to a scam — and laid the blame for the fake program at the feet of President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris during a heated and close election in which immigration has increasingly become a focal point.

“I’m concerned to find out how many people might have actually gotten it and to make sure the record’s set straight so people aren’t getting fearful or angry and deciding to vote another way,” Elizabeth Bennett, 62, said.

The letter says Bennett was selected as a “wayward steward” as part of “US5Ca12-B ... written into Law by President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris.” No such law exists.

It advised Bennett she’d been selected based on property and income records and would receive an $80 weekly stipend for food costs. The letter suggested a “minimum of one bedroom be prepared with a minimum of 5 beds,” with a link to “government-approved” bunk beds.

The return address listed is for an intersection in front of the Capitol building in Harrisburg.

Neither the governor’s office nor the department of state immediately returned a request for comment.

Republicans and Republican-aligned groups are really turbocharging bigotry, xenophobia, and racism that makes up much of the foundation of the Republican party and American conservative movement.

[Kaleredar]

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/el...-20240927.html

Latest racist, right-wing misinformation campaign is underway in PA -



Republicans and Republican-aligned groups are really turbocharging bigotry, xenophobia, and racism that makes up much of the foundation of the Republican party and American conservative movement.

Damn, Vance really fumbled the ball here. He could have claimed that he was hearing reports of forced immigrant housing in Pennsylvania, and when confronted with the fact that it was all made up nonsense shifted to talking about how the specifics weren’t important and if only people cared about fact checking other unrelated things he thinks benefit him instead of focusing so heavily on debunking this specific lie.

[Belize]

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/el...-20240927.html

Latest racist, right-wing misinformation campaign is underway in PA -



Republicans and Republican-aligned groups are really turbocharging bigotry, xenophobia, and racism that makes up much of the foundation of the Republican party and American conservative movement.

How is this shit legal...?

[Edge-]

How is this shit legal...?

The only possibly illegal part would be the whole "impersonating the government" thing but given that it's a fake government department and just looks official that's very likely legal as well.

It's legal because we have expansive First Amendment protections that cover malicious lies pretty extensively, much to the frustration of many of us who can't tolerate such trivial dishonesty.

[Kaleredar]

The only possibly illegal part would be the whole "impersonating the government" thing but given that it's a fake government department and just looks official that's very likely legal as well.

It's legal because we have expansive First Amendment protections that cover malicious lies pretty extensively, much to the frustration of many of us who can't tolerate such trivial dishonesty.

Misrepresenting a government body through the mail seems like something one would call “mail fraud” to me.

[Endus]

Misrepresenting a government body through the mail seems like something one would call “mail fraud” to me.

Except it's not a real government department, so how can you be construed as impersonating a non-existent agency?

[Iphie]

Except it's not a real government department, so how can you be construed as impersonating a non-existent agency?

You could argue it misrepresents the government as a whole, think of it like this: you impersonate an official from the government saying this agency exists, which is demonstrably false. You then claim that Biden and Harris have signed into law something that does not exist, which you MUST know is false. This then becomes libel (I think, libel is in text right?) which is illegal.

TL: DR: Impersonating a (fake) government official is still illegal. (at least where I live.)

[Kaleredar]

Except it's not a real government department, so how can you be construed as impersonating a non-existent agency?

I mean, if I mailed something out saying “I’m from the government office of extra monetary collections, here’s a law signed by Joe Biden that says you have to deposit 5,000 dollars into this Venmo account” that would 10,000% be fraud. This really isn’t significantly different from that.

[cubby]

Misrepresenting a government body through the mail seems like something one would call “mail fraud” to me.

What they did was a lie (and fraud), but pinpointing exactly how that fits into an actionable crime is difficult (even mail fraud doesn't quite fit).

Deceptive tactics in politics have existed since time out of mind, and frankly both sides have participated in them. This is nothing new, and given the xenophobic and racist tendencies (now and historically) of the MAGAt/GOP party, isn't even the worst thing we'll this election cycle.

[Edge-]

I mean, if I mailed something out saying “I’m from the government office of extra monetary collections, here’s a law signed by Joe Biden that says you have to deposit 5,000 dollars into this Venmo account” that would 10,000% be fraud. This really isn’t significantly different from that.

https://img.semafor.com/81fdc64b3b06...75&auto=format



Appears to be the letter in question. Just about the only remotely illegal thing I could think of would be the improper use of the PA state seal. They're not demanding money from people under pretense of legal consequences or anything which is what you describe.

[Sunseeker]

The only possibly illegal part would be the whole "impersonating the government" thing but given that it's a fake government department and just looks official that's very likely legal as well.

It's legal because we have expansive First Amendment protections that cover malicious lies pretty extensively, much to the frustration of many of us who can't tolerate such trivial dishonesty.

It doesnt matter if the agency is real or not, you are not allowed to state or imply you are affiliated with the government. An "Office of Immigration Affairs" does exactly that.

I know this because the debt collection company I worked for had an abreviated name (two-letter initials followed by a word) that matched one of the US states. When communicating with persons in that state, we had to make it clear and obvious that we were not agents of the government. Even if no government agency exists with the same name.

Ie: if you company was Winning Yellow Industries, and abreviated to "WY Industries" you would need to clarify, at least in Wyoming, that you are not a government agency.

I wont speak for every state, but there are laws on the books that make it illegal to misrepresent yourself as government agents, even of make believe agencies.

[Roneth]

Cool bullshit propaganda claim.

https://www.nbcnews.com/investigatio...ata-rcna173125

Since you didn't provide a source.

They aren't in ICE detention, specifically and exclusively;

"The immigrants are part of ICE’s “non-detained” docket, meaning the agency has some information on the immigrants and they have pending immigration cases in the U.S., but they are not currently in detention either because they are not prioritized for detention, they are serving time in a jail or prison for their crimes, or because ICE cannot find them, three law enforcement officials said."

So they're either;
1> Not an ICE concern because the homicide's something they've already served time for or didn't even occur in the USA,
2> Already in jail or prison outside the ICE system, or
3> ICE doesn't know where they are, so they may not even be in the USA any more.

This also just covers "homicide". Not "murder". An immigrant who was at fault in a car accident 30 years ago where someone died, and who went to prison and served their time and got out 25 years ago, and who's now 25 years later overstayed a work visa or something, that falls in this category. It doesn't mean they're a danger to anyone.

You're fearmongering over stupid, racist, anti-immigrant paranoia propaganda. When the reality is that undocumented immigrants are far less violent and criminal than native-born Americans. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
Undocumented immigrants entering the country lowers crime rates, on average. Why aren't you fearmongering over the many, many more native-born US citizens who pose a much greater risk factor to other Americans, both in their larger demographic representation and their criminality rates, rather than immigrants?

Fearmongering? On a board made up of 99% close minded liberals, who am I scaring? This is the Trump 2.0 thread because the first one was not big enough to contain everything you need to say about Trump. Feel free to link anything negative you have said about Harris. Speaking of fearmongering, please link from the above quote where I said murder and why you changed it? My favorite part of your fearmongering is where you admit ICE may not know where they are, further making the point that this is bad. Let's leave out your strawman anecdote and focus on something you are so brave to post here.

You're fearmongering over stupid, racist, anti-immigrant paranoia propaganda. When the reality is that undocumented immigrants are far less violent and criminal than native-born Americans. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
Undocumented immigrants entering the country lowers crime rates, on average. Why aren't you fearmongering over the many, many more native-born US citizens who pose a much greater risk factor to other Americans, both in their larger demographic representation and their criminality rates, rather than immigrants?

I would like to hear you stand in front of the parents of Laken Riley, Rachel Morin, or Jocelyn Nungaray and tell them that native born Americans are more violent. You can sit behind your keyboard up in a fascist country where they jail you for misgendering people and spout all you want, but you would shrivel if you had to meet them. But let's talk about these violent native born Americans. The ones who took over Seattle for days? Maybe the ones who burned down part of Minnesota. You would probably have stood proudly with Tim Walz's wife lamenting the burning of the city and breathing it in. The ones who destroyed the federal building that summer? How many of those people has the Harris administration prosecuted? So now statistics are fearmongering propaganda and your fake anecdotes about homicides you somehow equated switching to murder which no one did.

Again, it's not anti immigrant, it's anti illegal immigrant. Illegal, that word that means against the laws of the United States.


Infracted.

[Lenonis]

Republicans and Republican-aligned groups are really turbocharging bigotry, xenophobia, and racism that makes up much of the foundation of the Republican party and American conservative movement.

Last I checked falsely impersonating a government official is a crime.

As is election interference which this is.

The GOP continues to be a textbook example of projection.

[Kaleredar]

Fearmongering? On a board made up of 99% close minded liberals, who am I scaring? This is the Trump 2.0 thread because the first one was not big enough to contain everything you need to say about Trump. Feel free to link anything negative you have said about Harris. Speaking of fearmongering, please link from the above quote where I said murder and why you changed it? My favorite part of your fearmongering is where you admit ICE may not know where they are, further making the point that this is bad. Let's leave out your strawman anecdote and focus on something you are so brave to post here.



I would like to hear you stand in front of the parents of Laken Riley, Rachel Morin, or Jocelyn Nungaray and tell them that native born Americans are more violent. You can sit behind your keyboard up in a fascist country where they jail you for misgendering people and spout all you want, but you would shrivel if you had to meet them. But let's talk about these violent native born Americans. The ones who took over Seattle for days? Maybe the ones who burned down part of Minnesota. You would probably have stood proudly with Tim Walz's wife lamenting the burning of the city and breathing it in. The ones who destroyed the federal building that summer? How many of those people has the Harris administration prosecuted? So now statistics are fearmongering propaganda and your fake anecdotes about homicides you somehow equated switching to murder which no one did.

Again, it's not anti immigrant, it's anti illegal immigrant. Illegal, that word that means against the laws of the United States.

Hey bud you seem to have missed my last post, something I’m sure was a simple error on your part and certainly not an illustration of bad faith actions. To wit, I’ve posted it here again for your convenience:

Hi, question.

Even if this claim you just made wasn't bullshit, as Endus enumerated upon...

Can you show how Trump has said he'd cause this to not happen, and therefore why he's the better candidate?

I'll even do you and Trump a few solids by not even requiring it be said in full, complete sentences (I know Trump has problems with those) and let's say that this singular issue is the only thing anyone cares about, and that he'd only need to prove that he has the ability and desire to ameliorate this made-up problem to be the better candidate overall, instead of having to make up for his numerous and myriad other shortcomings that put him behind Harris as well.

It's a real low bar to clear but... sadly... I don't think you'll respond.

I’d appreciate if you could get back to me on that before Endus and others take your nonsense cherry-picked claim about violent leftists and illegal immogrants and eviscerate it with overwhelming statistics showing the propensity of right-wing violence being the vast majority of political violence in the US.


Hell, I’ll start and you can just append this to your reply to my earlier post, which party tried to overthrow the government because they didn’t like the 2020 election results?

[cubby]

Last I checked falsely impersonating a government official is a crime.

As is election interference which this is.

The GOP continues to be a textbook example of projection.

But they aren't falsely impersonating a government official. Or even a department. They just sent the letter, and it's not even Mail Fraud because there is no intent to defraud. And the letter isn't interfering with the election. I almost feel like a lawyer went over this before it was sanctioned.

Definitely a textbook example of projection, just not illegal.

[Breccia]

Fearmongering?

Yes. Just like posting "OMG 13099 immigrants!" and fleeing without answering when people pointed out how wrong you were.

You are in no position to admonish others about fearmongering, in no position to ask "please link", and in no position to argue about strawmen. Your latest post did all three.

[Lenonis]

But they aren't falsely impersonating a government official. Or even a department...just not illegal.

But...they are impersonating a government official - just not a real one. SURELY this is illegal somehow? If not it should be.

Anyone know what the phone number goes to? I feel like that could be a big part of the legality of this.

I also don't know if I agree that it isn't interfering with the election - I guess it is a question about if courts are allowed to use common sense to connect dots vs someone having to actually write "This letter is intended to influence your vote."

Cause...if this really is legal then:
1) It needs to immediately not be.
2) The Dems need to start sending a ton of these things to Trump voters.

[Milchshake]

Again, it's not anti immigrant, it's anti illegal immigrant. Illegal, that word that means against the laws of the United States.

"it's anti illegal immigrant" ist just Nazi's trying to normalize their Nazi bullshit.

Too embarassed to say it outloud. Kinda like being to embarassed to post on main.

[Endus]

Fearmongering? On a board made up of 99% close minded liberals, who am I scaring?

You're whining about a fictional persecution complex you hold because you can't defend the actual claims you made, and you know it.

Feel free to link anything negative you have said about Harris.

Feel free to use the Search function. Why would I entertain an obviously-dishonest accusation like this for a hot second? Do your own damned homework if you want to claim I've never said anything negative about Harris.

Speaking of fearmongering, please link from the above quote where I said murder and why you changed it? My favorite part of your fearmongering is where you admit ICE may not know where they are, further making the point that this is bad. Let's leave out your strawman anecdote and focus on something you are so brave to post here.

I adjusted to "murder" because "homicide" isn't anything to be concerned about, in and of itself. "Homicide" is any case where one person is involved in the death of another, but many of those are not criminal actions. Use of lethal force is justifiable self defense, accidents that lead to death without negligence or criminal responsibility, infant fatalities due to complications after birth, I could keep citing examples. The only reason for it to be an angle for concern even hypothetically would be if you meant "murders", which your stats did not limit themselves to, which was the point.

There's no reason whatsoever to give a shit about connections to homicides, absent the context of what exactly what type of homicides.

Also, again, ICE not knowing where they are means you can't even reasonable claim they're even in the United States in the first place. Which you're ignoring.

I would like to hear you stand in front of the parents of Laken Riley, Rachel Morin, or Jocelyn Nungaray and tell them that native born Americans are more violent.

Whatever their personal tragedies may be, it doesn't change the actual facts. If they're using a personal tragedy to push hate speech against immigrants, that's bad shit and they'd deserve condemnation for doing so.

Using those tragedies to push hate speech doesn't make you the "good guy". It's bigoted scapegoating.

You can sit behind your keyboard up in a fascist country where they jail you for misgendering people

Utterly fictional bullshit. Where the fuck do you get this nonsense? Do you listen to Jordan Peterson or something?

But let's talk about these violent native born Americans. The ones who took over Seattle for days? Maybe the ones who burned down part of Minnesota. You would probably have stood proudly with Tim Walz's wife lamenting the burning of the city and breathing it in. The ones who destroyed the federal building that summer? How many of those people has the Harris administration prosecuted? So now statistics are fearmongering propaganda and your fake anecdotes about homicides you somehow equated switching to murder which no one did.

You're so utterly silly. This is a troll account, right? You can't possibly be serious. I can't take this as even a legitimate attempt at discourse any more.

You're trying to hold out a handful of left-wing movements, and ignore that most political violence in the USA is right-wing in nature.

https://www.start.umd.edu/publicatio...remists-united
https://www.adl.org/resources/report...-united-states
https://www.pnas.org/doi/abs/10.1073/pnas.2122593119

Again, data just outright contradicts your messaging.

Not to mention you just straight pushing disinformation about Walz among others;
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...k/74704048007/

You're not a serious person. You're pushing falsehoods to support a dishonest and misleading agenda. Which is why you have to slap out little single-sentence statements and then run away, without backing any of your shit up.

Again, it's not anti immigrant, it's anti illegal immigrant. Illegal, that word that means against the laws of the United States.

Fun fact; not having a valid visa to be in the country is not in any way a crime. There's nothing to charge or fine you over. No law is broken.

You don't even understand the basics of the law here.

Feel free to cite the actual federal law being broken by undocumented immigrants. And don't cite laws about evading border security; that's not what we're talking about here, and you know it.