2024 Election - Trump vs. Harris, important downballot

[Endus]

Most of us aren't advocating a suck it up and deal approach. Least not in the way you seem to have misunderstood it.

Not sure if you're aware but correcting a whole system takes time. And in many cases like the electoral college there are massive barriers to fixing it that make it impossible or extremely hard to overcome. So what do you do in the short term? Whining does work. Fucking off results in a stacked right wing supreme court screwing up our rights all over the place on top of the massively conservatively stacked federal judiciary for the next 20-30 years and more.

Also, my point is that these problems aren't the arbitrary consequence of poor choices in the here-and-now. Nobody woke up one morning and said "let's violate the expectations of the systems of government today and put in Joe Biden as the candidate". He's the candidate because of those systems. You can't change those systems without either getting very directly involved in the process, or throwing an actual violent revolution and tearing the entire system down. It's not about "suck it up and deal", it's "your system is bad, it was designed badly from its earliest beginnings, because your Founding Fathers were mostly kind of dumbshits about most things, and worshipping their dumbshit ideas is not helping the USA". How I'm expecting people to "deal" is get involved, push for reform, make the changes that need to be made.

If you want to be served your desired outcome on a silver platter by others having done the work for you in your apathetic non-action, then yeah. In that case, you get to suck it up. You're expressing that you don't care enough to change anything, so you get to deal with the outcomes you get. If that bothers you, get involved and start pushing for change.

You can't keep going to McDonalds and ordering a Big Mac and fries and complaining that you don't like McDonalds fries. And you're just going to irritate everyone at your table when you keep complaining about getting exactly what you specifically ordered. Order something else, push for a different restaurant, hell, if you don't like the options find a way to start your own restaurant. Whining about getting what you ordered and never changing your choices isn't ever going to get you the meal you want.

And if you suck it up and order the Big Mac and fries again, choke it down. It's what you asked for. You get to deal with it. In this one specific instance.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Lol, I have to agree with Draco-Onis that there is a lot of coping going on.

Optics, optics always have mattered and I would argue that they matter even more in USA. So yes, the age and this frailty are important, because that's what the voters see. Sure, Edge, the average one is a dum-dum (cause the rest of us totally are not xD), but that is what the dum-dum sees in the first place.
When you have basically all Western left-leaning press talking about this being a fuckup it probably is a fuckup and those details were important instead of being useless thoughts by dum-dums.
P.S.
I laughed at the "we overprepared Biden so that's why he stumbled". That's a cope too.




1st part - yes
2nd part - no, it actually matters due to how much politics in USA influence rest of the world.

No. What exactly was Biden supposed to do beyond the legitimate criticisms.

Come out and do cartwheels or some shit.

Name one legitimate issue Biden was wrong about. Was it because he wasn’t as loud and animated as the circus clown Trump.

Trump is a corrupt liar con artist and Felon.

The only cope happening comes from those railing on his Biden.

Even on Bidens worst day last night he’s clearly better than Trump.

[Paranoid Android]

Again, you're very stuck on projection.


Right right, every establishment figure with a podcast, cable news paycheck... out there stirring the pot for ratings.

Back on earth, most democrats didnt care. Too busy mowing the grass or doing mundane work.

My goodness team blue will vote team blue. Grats. You will need more than team blue to win an election since its about 40/40 split Red, blue and rest 10-20% will be the swing voters. Team Blue would vote if you propped up a dead Biden. I don't even have to talk about Trump. Ironically you are just Democrat blind that they can never be critiqued.

A lot of your post hisrtory is complaining the Dem coalition doesnt cater to your peticular grievances.
A lot of complaining they can't win in 2018, 2020, 2020, unless they follow this one neat trick.

ROFL! I have done more "that a boy" Democrat posts than critique. My particular grievances are almost al pro labor and anti-corporation shit. My gawd, we don't want that in the Democrat party I guess. Too Commie I guess.

I mean you asking for blind party loyalty not matter what Democrats say. We generally made fun of these people who are blindly loyal to Trump and today can't question anything Trump does.

[Doctor Amadeus]

My goodness team blue will vote team blue. Grats. You will need more than team blue to win an election since its about 40/40 split Red, blue and rest 10-20% will be the swing voters. Team Blue would vote if you propped up a dead Biden. I don't even have to talk about Trump. Ironically you are just Democrat blind that they can never be critiqued.



ROFL! I have done more "that a boy" Democrat posts than critique. My particular grievances are almost al pro labor and anti-corporation shit. My gawd, we don't want that in the Democrat party I guess. Too Commie I guess.

I mean you asking for blind party loyalty not matter what Democrats say. We generally made fun of these people who are blindly loyal to Trump and today can't question anything Trump does.

Not about Team Blue. Team Sanity and reality vs some Orange Hitler who is a big reason Biden got elected to begin with.


There is not alternative and if you Say RFKjr then you’re saying you’re voting Trump.

[Edge-]

https://x.com/realMABarreto/status/1806527153388834916

Let's get out of the beltway of establishment and media figures pontificating on last night's performance with an eye towards their personal careers and professions and instead go to some apparently real voters.

The man being interviewed said Trump "said the same thing time after time" and was not answering questions or "saying how he would fix things," according to a Newsweek translation.

He went on to admit that "Biden was indeed a bit slow in talking," saying the president "has a stutter" but believes Biden explained "what he has done and what he is still doing while president.

"After being undecided for a little while, I think today, I switched to Biden," he added.

[masterhorus8]

https://x.com/realMABarreto/status/1806527153388834916

Let's get out of the beltway of establishment and media figures pontificating on last night's performance with an eye towards their personal careers and professions and instead go to some apparently real voters.

Wow, an actual based opinion in reality... Damn librul scum

[Paranoid Android]

Not about Team Blue. Team Sanity and reality vs some Orange Hitler who is a big reason Biden got elected to begin with.


There is not alternative and if you Say RFKjr then you’re saying you’re voting Trump.

Again we are a handful of people in an MMO website talking politics. We get Good vs Evil. Good policy vs bad policy. I have been here for 8 years screaming loudest on Trump.

We see this clear but it's about a bunch of people we need to rely to vote for Biden and worse they have to win in selected states cause of Electoral college. It's not over cause Trump is horrible and Biden can swing voters. He might also not energize many voters, so lord help us.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Again we are a handful of people in an MMO website talking politics. We get Good vs Evil. Good policy vs bad policy. I have been here for 8 years screaming loudest on Trump.

We see this clear but it's about a bunch of people we need to rely to vote for Biden and worse they have to win in selected states cause of Electoral college. It's not over cause Trump is horrible and Biden can swing voters. He might also not energize many voters, so lord help us.

I have a NEW idea. How about we persuade people of integrity intelligence and decency. To look at the facts over nonsense. Instead of electing someone we would all have a beer with in our imagination.

Let’s instead look at the individuals running. Also let’s all try to stop talking about being lead and step the fuck up and roll up the sleeves instead of hoping things get better.

Campaign on truth, blunt truth and honesty. Let’s confront and attack lies and force the issue. Be as loud as the ignorance and stop rewarding stupidity.

Build a coalition of those who want to come together on issues and make life better for everyone or as many as possible.

I think that could be refreshing and win too. Instead of bullshit about being afraid of socialism or e mails. Or the age of politicians.

[Kaleredar]

Again we are a handful of people in an MMO website talking politics. We get Good vs Evil. Good policy vs bad policy. I have been here for 8 years screaming loudest on Trump.

We see this clear but it's about a bunch of people we need to rely to vote for Biden and worse they have to win in selected states cause of Electoral college. It's not over cause Trump is horrible and Biden can swing voters. He might also not energize many voters, so lord help us.

Like you said though. Most people don’t pay attention.

Biden’s old and Trump is a liar. This is what has been said prior to the debate, it’s what was said prior to the 2020 election.

How long until this, too, just sort of oozes into the background in the minds of the “average voter?”

[PACOX]

Seen a lot of liberal pundits throw bigger fits the terminally online progressives they love to mock. Not even mincing words, telling Biden to drop out yesterday. Same people who told anyone left of them to STFU and fall in line when people asked for a real primary. Its too late. Biden is the candidate that shoved down in front of the party and now the party will have to deal with it. Suddenly Biden is looking too old and not the like the best candidate? Now? It wasn't apparent a year, two years ago? Some people would say 5 years ago but let the past be the past

I think something people left of liberals are doing is being a lot more optimistic. Its a crowd used to disappointment and sucking it up. Its okay, the race isn't over, Biden can recover if he just chills for a while, he didn't stink up the stage enough that people cant hold their nose at the polls. Liberals need to take a deep breath, take it as a lesson learned, and eat their words - shut up and vote. Suck it up, put on your big kid shoes, take a dose of copium, and don't argue in front of the Republicans because its making you look bad.

Loyalty not found.

- - - Updated - - -

Like you said though. Most people don’t pay attention.

Biden’s old and Trump is a liar. This is what has been said prior to the debate, it’s what was said prior to the 2020 election.

How long until this, too, just sort of oozes into the background in the minds of the “average voter?”

Most people dont watch the debates but they will see and remember the highlights played in heavy rotation while they are getting ready for work, doing chores around the house. They'll see headlines that might be missing context but sensationalism the worst aspects of the debate. They will definitly pay attention to all of that. Like in 2016 people werent paying attention, which is how something as dumb as the Comey letter was able chip away at Clintons "guarenteed" win. What is in the letter didn't matter, that nothing came out of it mattered, that it was dumb, that most people didnt even know what the letter said, the headlines and publicity of a scandal
were enough to move the needle.


I also think people forget how close 2020 was. We look at the final electoral count and say "oh, Biden won 306 to 232, an asswhooping". Except the truth was that the states that pushed him that high were barely won. They forget the tight recounts, how shit was really on the line. They both carried the same amount of states. Where the election actually mattered was way too close to be dicking out in 2024 and taking stuff for granted. Espcially when the GOP now has evidence to play along with their "Biden is too old" narrative. They are going to play clips in heavy rotation like Kdots Not Like Us.

[gondrin]

Also, my point is that these problems aren't the arbitrary consequence of poor choices in the here-and-now. Nobody woke up one morning and said "let's violate the expectations of the systems of government today and put in Joe Biden as the candidate". He's the candidate because of those systems. You can't change those systems without either getting very directly involved in the process, or throwing an actual violent revolution and tearing the entire system down. It's not about "suck it up and deal", it's "your system is bad, it was designed badly from its earliest beginnings, because your Founding Fathers were mostly kind of dumbshits about most things, and worshipping their dumbshit ideas is not helping the USA". How I'm expecting people to "deal" is get involved, push for reform, make the changes that need to be made.

If you want to be served your desired outcome on a silver platter by others having done the work for you in your apathetic non-action, then yeah. In that case, you get to suck it up. You're expressing that you don't care enough to change anything, so you get to deal with the outcomes you get. If that bothers you, get involved and start pushing for change.

You can't keep going to McDonalds and ordering a Big Mac and fries and complaining that you don't like McDonalds fries. And you're just going to irritate everyone at your table when you keep complaining about getting exactly what you specifically ordered. Order something else, push for a different restaurant, hell, if you don't like the options find a way to start your own restaurant. Whining about getting what you ordered and never changing your choices isn't ever going to get you the meal you want.

And if you suck it up and order the Big Mac and fries again, choke it down. It's what you asked for. You get to deal with it. In this one specific instance.

Thing is, and you and I have both said it, the system is broken in the US. It would take, as you said, a violent revolution or, as I said, a massive Constitutional overhaul with amendments to prevent this kind of thing happening again.

Here goes folks. If Biden were to die tomorrow, I would rather they "Weekend At Bernies" him and vote for his literal corpse than what Trump brings. Trump is literal fascism. He is a symptom of that. But that is what he brings. He literally parrots the same talking points that Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy did before WW2.

Don't want to vote for Biden because of Palestine? Guess what, Trump is far worse as not only does he want Israel to bomb Palestine, he wants to eradicate all people there. So anyone that thinks Biden is an asshole on that, yeah, he is. But the alternative is far, far worse.

It is a literal vote for a somewhat Democracy vs Fascism. Which do you prefer? Because that is what you will get. I would rather stick with the somewhat Democracy and try and get people in the local areas and in my state that don't want to have fascists in power.

[tehdang]

If they can't send Biden to the cameras looking like SOTU Biden in the next couple of days, then it's going to be Joe & Jill Biden vs 60% or more of the Democratic party (I'm trying to be generous here) asking him to step aside for another candidate prior to the convention. I see Biden as having good days and bad days, and this wasn't a good day.

If I'm coming at this issue from the Biden camp, his campaign has to send Biden himself on an interview circuit speaking coherently and pulling something like "I really felt off at that debate, couldn't nail Trump to the wall with his lies." They need Biden looking like he was at the State of the Union and in front of TV cameras pronto.

Like I said:
https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/1806785161784070325

He gets a check mark for getting in front of cameras and doing a ""I really felt off at that debate" ("I don't speak as smoothly as I used to. I don't debate as well as I used to"). He's partway there. He still needs to conduct a TV interview without prescreened questions or teleprompter to secure his spot against calls for him to step aside.

[gondrin]

Like you said though. Most people don’t pay attention.

Biden’s old and Trump is a liar. This is what has been said prior to the debate, it’s what was said prior to the 2020 election.

How long until this, too, just sort of oozes into the background in the minds of the “average voter?”

That is what is the most comical of all of the things. People are literally shocked that a person who has trouble speaking, has a stuttering problem and is elderly showed exactly that. Biden was EXACTLY what I expected. An old man that has elderly issues.

Trump is literally exactly what I expected. A massive liar. A person who absolutely hate anyone but himself. If it isn't him, it has to be the worst. And that is all he said. He did NOTHING but complain. No policy of any kind. Just complain.

This wasn't a secret before yesterday. This wasn't a secret 4 years ago.

Anyone that is shocked by this but says they follow politics should take the same mental test that Trump took because they must have brain issues.

[SunspotAnims]

I was primarily disappointed with Biden's performance because we've seen him do better, even in the rally after the debate. I don't think Biden is senile or his mental acuity is poor, just that he sometimes is a decent speaker and other times just isn't. It's an optics thing. On Trump's end, it wasn't even just the constant lying, it's showing even outside of the environment of his rallies the unhinged shit he's willing to say. He called Biden a Palestinian, it was so weird. He still refuses to accept elections.

I can't imagine the debate did much other than reaffirm what most people already broadly think about the candidates. I think Biden should probably not wait for debates like this to shake the stigma. If he and his campaign are actually confident that his age isn't an issue, just go out in public more. Give more speeches, do more interviews. Don't make it so that every public speech seems like a make-or-break event.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

*big exaggerated shrug*

So fucking what?

The GOP were always going to run with "OMG BIDEN TOO OLD!" and conveniently ignore that Trump is nearly as old and even more visibly declining mentally, so no, the Dems didn't hand the GOP any ammunition they weren't already spraying around.

They wouldn't be able to if Biden had declined to seek a second term. They might run on "OMG Kamala inexperienced" but she would have been able to put up a better fight in the debate.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/meganelisco...bate-reactions

I was curious if the debate changed anyone's minds, so I asked members of the BuzzFeed Community to share their thoughts after watching... whatever that was. Here's what people had to say:

"I’m still voting for Biden, but I really don’t want to. This is by far the most embarrassing presidential election this country has ever had."

"This country is in trouble. We have no good choices anymore. A choice between a declining senior citizen who should be retired and living that kind of life and a narcissistic, lying, unhinged sociopath speaks volumes. It speaks to how dysfunctional and fear-based politics are, how divided and polarized we are. How self-serving politicians are."

"The rest of the world is either laughing or crying over the future of the free world, which the US, at the end of the day, controls the fate of. It was easy to choose even up to the last election, but now the waters are so murky because it's not just about today and next January; it's about four years of one of two men who are unknown quantities. And it's also whatever they manage to create or put in place that continues beyond their terms. And finally, it's also Congress because what one man can or cannot do can largely be impacted by what form of Congress he has to deal with."

"Both were so bad. Truly don’t know who to vote for. I wish we could just start over with two new candidates. Neither should be able to run for president for completely different reasons."

"I’m still voting for Biden, but it reinforces what I already believed: our system is broken, corrupt, and needs change. We need term limits for all offices. We need accountability for elected officials' financial situations during and after holding office. We definitely need an upper age limit for elected positions. The United States is a mess."

"Did not change my mind whatsoever. Only reaffirmed they are both unfit for office."

"I probably already knew this, but while nobody was ever going to win that debacle (and nobody did), there was a clear loser. The people of the United States."

"I was a huge Biden supporter until tonight! How the Democrats could allow him to debate blows my mind! After watching him struggle to answer questions and lose his train of thought, it became obvious that he isn’t up to the job of president of the US! He was truthful and was able to make some stronger points later in the debate, but he’s simply not up to the job."

Now, obviously I cherry picked through and only selected the ones that prove Gorsameth's point... but even most of the ones i left out implied that they would vote for anyone other than Trump.

[Karreck]

Broad strokes: Yes, agreed. That'd be grand, if very unlikely.

The last bit though...voters will absolutely not take it seriously. We struggle to get voters to pay much attention at all, especially in primaries. "Taking it seriously", which is what already happens (especially during years without an incumbent) doesn't suddenly make voters pay attention and take it seriously.

If primaries were treated like they mattered, people would think that they matter and would be more likely to take them seriously. Yeah, we won't get 100% of voters out for Primaries, but we could do better than our current less than 25% number.

Most of us aren't advocating a suck it up and deal approach. Least not in the way you seem to have misunderstood it.

Not sure if you're aware but correcting a whole system takes time. And in many cases like the electoral college there are massive barriers to fixing it that make it impossible or extremely hard to overcome. So what do you do in the short term? Whining does work. Fucking off results in a stacked right wing supreme court screwing up our rights all over the place on top of the massively conservatively stacked federal judiciary for the next 20-30 years and more.

The superdelegate process by and large was another example of idiots not understanding things getting suckered in by Republican propaganda. especially the bernie bros.


The fact of the matter is unless your a far right zealot Trump is an unmitigated disaster. I personally will continue to advocate for change and do my best with the choices I'm given. And you can choose to not vote for Biden, or anyone oblivious to the fact that Biden definitely has a few helpful wins for the people that Trump would have not only not done but is actively trying to the opposite. I'll just remind you that dumbshit thinking like that is why Roe vs Wade is now voided. I personally would rather not blast myself in the foot with a shotgun while I attempt to fix the issue and if that's "sucking it up and dealing" then so be it. I'd rather not actively be a fucking moron instead.

I've been very clear about my feeling towards Trump and how I will be voting for Biden. Biden is the better candidate. So, I am not advocating for Trump, nor am I saying don't vote for Biden. Like it or not, we are stuck with what we have.

Not sure if you are aware, but people can vote for Biden and still have issues with him and the systems behind him. Kind of a fun little quirk about being a voter involved in politics is being able to say "Hey, I'm not really happy with an out of touch 81 year old being my only option other than straight up fascism." I have concerns over both candidates age, mental cognition, and if they are going to live through their elected term. So I voice my displeasure, adding it to the other displeased voices, and maybe we get enough of a voting block down the line to fix something like, I don't know, age limits on public office? An open and robust primary system that operates even with an incumbent in the mix?

And no, the super-delegate system was a problem. Trying to blame Bernie Bros or chalk it up to Republican propaganda ignores the real concerns with a system that favors party elites. They should not exist within the primary system.

[Gorsameth]

And no, the super-delegate system was a problem. Trying to blame Bernie Bros or chalk it up to Republican propaganda ignores the real concerns with a system that favors party elites. They should not exist within the primary system.

I see Trump forcefully taking control of the GOP against the wishes of the party and think "glad Democrats have super delegates to help keep someone like that out".

[Karreck]

I see Trump forcefully taking control of the GOP against the wishes of the party and think "glad Democrats have super delegates to help keep someone like that out".

If it is the will of Republican voters to vote Trump as their candidate, then so be it. Voters, each having an equal say, should be the ones deciding who will be a party's nominee for President, without oversight by party elite. Same for the Presidential Election as well.

While superdelagetes could be used to keep out the next Trump or Nixon or Hitler sure, they could also be used to keep out the next Mandela, Lincoln, or Obama.

[Edge-]

If primaries were treated like they mattered, people would think that they matter and would be more likely to take them seriously. Yeah, we won't get 100% of voters out for Primaries, but we could do better than our current less than 25% number.

Again, they do matter and even in the years where they matter (without incumbents) most Americans can't be bothered.

[Easo]

No. What exactly was Biden supposed to do beyond the legitimate criticisms.......

Not barely mumble some BS, for one or look like he is gonna fall dead, two. Once more - optics. It's not about his program, it's about human factor, which starts with visual one.
I really do not understand what's there to not understand.

And why, why the hell do these talks always turn to BUT BUT TRUMP (or Biden) this and that? Yes, yes YES WE KNOW, that's not the point.