2024 Election - Trump vs. Harris, important downballot

[Draco-Onis]

I think it would be a mistake to undersell Roe V. Wade even today you have Kari Lake in Arizona pretending she is pro choice. The issue has been poison for the GOP ever since it occurred even worse if an abortion initiative is happening at the same time. If it wasn't for all these problems with Biden it would be one of the things he would be hammering Trump on even he recognizes that it could kill his chances of winning the presidency.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

The only people that are defending Biden and him staying in the race are those that want to say afterwards "I didn't vote for Trump" when Trump will go fuck things up, and he will do some crazy shit rightfully since he will have a mandate from the American people.

Ah yes. And I'm sure history will not look kindly on the people who loudly spoke about voting for an old man that isn't exactly what they wanted versus lazy-but-still modern day Hilter. /s

[Endus]

No, he's not - polls right now are worthless.

No, those aren't.

The crazy and can't-think-past-the-next-few-minutes people are those like yourself who aren't looking at all the data, who aren't thinking about what the next few months will look like, and who can't see how the election will actually play out.

Biden had a bad night and it's all anyone can talk about.

Trump said he saw the future and told Putin to invade Ukraine, and that lunacy was again ignored.

Wake the fuck up and stop posting this bullshit.

"Concerned Democrats" are their own worst enemies. Any kind of minor hiccup where your candidate isn't absolutely perfect? PANIC. Oh no, well NOW we're not gonna vote at ALL, because we're apparently completely unaware of who the alternative is.

Absolute pants-on-head idiotic reasoning. Stop being this completely stupid, Democrats. Biden could have a stroke and be in a vegetative state in a hospital, on life support, and you should still be turning out to vote for the potato. Because the alternative is fuckin' fascism and the intentional killing of thousands of Americans, at a minimum. More likely a much larger number.

"He looks weak"? Your alternative is the child-molesting, woman-raping, fraud-committing shitweasal fascist who's bragging about how many of your fellow Americans he's gonna target for elimination post-election. Wake the fuck up and realize the position you're actually in. Because if you're saying you just can't be arsed because Biden's not inspiring enough, you're stanning for the fascists and trying to duck your personal responsibility. You may as well be wearing a MAGA hat yourself. You don't have a valid point. It's self-defeating. You're being encouraged to think this way by Republicans. They're the ones who want you to not bother voting. Stop doing what Republicans want, fer crissakes. Sure, Biden sucks. You don't have to vote for him. Vote against fascism. Because if you won't, you're okay with fascism. It's that simple, really.

[gondrin]

"Concerned Democrats" are their own worst enemies. Any kind of minor hiccup where your candidate isn't absolutely perfect? PANIC. Oh no, well NOW we're not gonna vote at ALL, because we're apparently completely unaware of who the alternative is.

Absolute pants-on-head idiotic reasoning. Stop being this completely stupid, Democrats. Biden could have a stroke and be in a vegetative state in a hospital, on life support, and you should still be turning out to vote for the potato. Because the alternative is fuckin' fascism and the intentional killing of thousands of Americans, at a minimum. More likely a much larger number.

"He looks weak"? Your alternative is the child-molesting, woman-raping, fraud-committing shitweasal fascist who's bragging about how many of your fellow Americans he's gonna target for elimination post-election. Wake the fuck up and realize the position you're actually in. Because if you're saying you just can't be arsed because Biden's not inspiring enough, you're stanning for the fascists and trying to duck your personal responsibility. You may as well be wearing a MAGA hat yourself. You don't have a valid point. It's self-defeating. You're being encouraged to think this way by Republicans. They're the ones who want you to not bother voting. Stop doing what Republicans want, fer crissakes. Sure, Biden sucks. You don't have to vote for him. Vote against fascism. Because if you won't, you're okay with fascism. It's that simple, really.

That has always been the issue. There will be a good 55 - 60 million that will vote for Trump no matter what, probably higher. That is literally what people need to realize that if you don't all vote for the same person that is the Dem candidate means that Trump gets in office. He is the GOP candidate. Unless Biden came out and started to be even worse than Trump, meaning target large groups of people for execution, jail opposition outright and pretty much out Trump, well, Trump, there is NO reason to not vote for him if he is the Dem nominee.

Does Biden suck on a lot of issues? Yes. I personally cannot stand him on a LOT of issues. But he isn't a fascist. He doesn't have dreams of being a dictator. He doesn't want to arrest, execute or outright eliminate his enemies or opposition.

If he is the nominee, any vote against him is a vote FOR fascism because that is what you will get with Trump.

I wish a lot of Republicans understood that. You don't have to vote for Biden or even a Dem, just don't vote FOR Trump. I personally will be voting for the presumptive Dem nominee even though I don't agree with their party platform on a decent amount of issues. The alternative is far, far worse.

[Benggaul]

I personally will be voting for the presumptive Dem nominee even though I don't agree with their party platform on a decent amount of issues. The alternative is far, far worse.

I mean as a progressive Independent this is the way I've had to vote for decades. Does it suck? You betcha. But the alternative is the GOP and they've been objectively worse for at least as long as I've been alive.

Unless and until the US can break away from FPTP/The EC/the two-party system this is just the reality progressives will have to face on the macro level. However, back when I still lived in the States I could and did vote for more progressive candidates on the local level and in more than a couple instances they won. The place I grew up was no paradise when I was a kid, but it was starting to head in the right (by which I mean left) direction when I left and according to my family back home it's still doing well despite the shitshow on the national level.

People keep expecting massive, sweeping changes federally--and sometimes they get it, Biden's admin did a LOT of good particularly in those first two years--and they narrow their focus down to a handful of issues while completely missing the big picture. It's exhausting.

[Paranoid Android]

"Concerned Democrats" are their own worst enemies. Any kind of minor hiccup where your candidate isn't absolutely perfect? PANIC. Oh no, well NOW we're not gonna vote at ALL, because we're apparently completely unaware of who the alternative is.

Absolute pants-on-head idiotic reasoning. Stop being this completely stupid, Democrats. Biden could have a stroke and be in a vegetative state in a hospital, on life support, and you should still be turning out to vote for the potato. Because the alternative is fuckin' fascism and the intentional killing of thousands of Americans, at a minimum. More likely a much larger number.

"He looks weak"? Your alternative is the child-molesting, woman-raping, fraud-committing shitweasal fascist who's bragging about how many of your fellow Americans he's gonna target for elimination post-election. Wake the fuck up and realize the position you're actually in. Because if you're saying you just can't be arsed because Biden's not inspiring enough, you're stanning for the fascists and trying to duck your personal responsibility. You may as well be wearing a MAGA hat yourself. You don't have a valid point. It's self-defeating. You're being encouraged to think this way by Republicans. They're the ones who want you to not bother voting. Stop doing what Republicans want, fer crissakes. Sure, Biden sucks. You don't have to vote for him. Vote against fascism. Because if you won't, you're okay with fascism. It's that simple, really.

Sorry on my phone so have to take this whole post as one.

So @cubby polling and ineffectiveness right now this far out. Alright truth in it, but that's what we have to go on now and it's concern. Yes it can change.

So I always state that we are political nerds who talk politics everyday on a MMO website. The concern at being mad and concerned about people is Biden's problem.

Maybe I'm mixing too much policy into the age concern but Biden was not doing great with young and the African American vote over Israel. My concern is age and Israel might tank this.

I wish had source but read Biden can lose 30 percent of black vote and 20 percent of Latino vote and gain 3 percent white vote and win.

I guess Biden is hoping in gaining support from people showing up for pro-choice, them supporting Israel and possibly saving democracy.

Summarize here the people who are not policy heads who may not vote because of Biden's age is a concern.

[Endus]

Sorry on my phone so have to take this whole post as one.

So @cubby polling and ineffectiveness right now this far out. Alright truth in it, but that's what we have to go on now and it's concern. Yes it can change.

So I always state that we are political nerds who talk politics everyday on a MMO website. The concern at being mad and concerned about people is Biden's problem.

Maybe I'm mixing too much policy into the age concern but Biden was not doing great with young and the African American vote over Israel. My concern is age and Israel might tank this.

I wish had source but read Biden can lose 30 percent of black vote and 20 percent of Latino vote and gain 3 percent white vote and win.

I guess Biden is hoping in gaining support from people showing up for pro-choice, them supporting Israel and possibly saving democracy.

Summarize here the people who are not policy heads who may not vote because of Biden's age is a concern.

My point is less in strategization, here, but in pushing for a necessary refocusing of what the fuck is actually happening. Sure, most people out there won't pay attention and this won't get to them, but my point is those people need to be condemned. By their friends and family, ideally.

If you see a choice between "bland and boring ineffectiveness", and "Christian-Nationalist fascism that's already brutalizing innocents at the State level", and you say "eh, I can't be arsed to show up", you stand with the bigots and fascists. You may as well be wearing a MAGA hat. You don't care about the harms they're already committing, let alone those that they're promising to expand to if they win. That's the simple truth.

Getting that perspective out there is the first step to waking people the fuck up about what's happening around them. The apathetic passive fascists need to be slapped in the face with the reality of what their passivity actually means.

As I said above; you're the equivalent of someone who's watching a toddler drown in a still pond, and you won't dive in to save them because you don't want to get your pants wet. You are not a good person. You have no moral high ground.

The "you" here meaning those who are saying they aren't gonna bother voting because "both sides are bad" or whatever other bullshit they tell themselves so they don't have to see the MAGA hat in the mirror.

[Draco-Onis]

"Concerned Democrats" are their own worst enemies. Any kind of minor hiccup where your candidate isn't absolutely perfect? PANIC. Oh no, well NOW we're not gonna vote at ALL, because we're apparently completely unaware of who the alternative is.

Absolute pants-on-head idiotic reasoning. Stop being this completely stupid, Democrats. Biden could have a stroke and be in a vegetative state in a hospital, on life support, and you should still be turning out to vote for the potato. Because the alternative is fuckin' fascism and the intentional killing of thousands of Americans, at a minimum. More likely a much larger number.

"He looks weak"? Your alternative is the child-molesting, woman-raping, fraud-committing shitweasal fascist who's bragging about how many of your fellow Americans he's gonna target for elimination post-election. Wake the fuck up and realize the position you're actually in. Because if you're saying you just can't be arsed because Biden's not inspiring enough, you're stanning for the fascists and trying to duck your personal responsibility. You may as well be wearing a MAGA hat yourself. You don't have a valid point. It's self-defeating. You're being encouraged to think this way by Republicans. They're the ones who want you to not bother voting. Stop doing what Republicans want, fer crissakes. Sure, Biden sucks. You don't have to vote for him. Vote against fascism. Because if you won't, you're okay with fascism. It's that simple, really.

Biden doesn't have to convince most of the base, he has to convince the people in swing states that got him the presidency. There's a reason democrats are distancing themselves from him, avoiding campaigning with and tying themselves too close to him for a few years now. Biden's approval numbers have been in the dumps for years, who knows where we would be if the supreme court nut jobs didn't motivate people to vote against republicans. Biden won by 40K votes the popular vote doesn't matter republicans haven't won that in decades. The worry is that he will not be able to make the case to those people who decide the election because he can't.

The biggest fumbles he has made so far have been steering a question on abortion to immigration while debating Trump and presenting nothing to change the supreme court. Biden seems to not have the energy or fight in him to take it to Trump, most people aren't hardcore Biden supporter. The threat of Trump means we need to do whatever it takes to beat him including throwing Biden under the bus.

[Endus]

Biden doesn't have to convince most of the base, he has to convince the people in swing states that got him the presidency. There's a reason democrats are distancing themselves from him, avoiding campaigning with and tying themselves too close to him for a few years now. Biden's approval numbers have been in the dumps for years, who knows where we would be if the supreme court nut jobs didn't motivate people to vote against republicans. Biden won by 40K votes the popular vote doesn't matter republicans haven't won that in decades. The worry is that he will not be able to make the case to those people who decide the election because he can't.

The biggest fumbles he has made so far have been steering a question on abortion to immigration while debating Trump and presenting nothing to change the supreme court. Biden seems to not have the energy or fight in him to take it to Trump, most people aren't hardcore Biden supporter. The threat of Trump means we need to do whatever it takes to beat him including throwing Biden under the bus.

And I repeat; if any of that shit makes voters decide to stay home, it means those voters are fascists. They don't have a problem with fascism and the targeting of millions of Americans for abusive treatment up to and including avoidable deaths.

They are bad people whose choices are abominable. Either they can get woken up to what's actually happening, or the USA's already a fallen nation and what we're witnessing here are death throes, not healthy politics.

[Kaleredar]

And I repeat; if any of that shit makes voters decide to stay home, it means those voters are fascists. They don't have a problem with fascism and the targeting of millions of Americans for abusive treatment up to and including avoidable deaths.

They are bad people whose choices are abominable. Either they can get woken up to what's actually happening, or the USA's already a fallen nation and what we're witnessing here are death throes, not healthy politics.

Unfortunately, most of the US "undecided" voters are that way because they don't really pay attention.

They go off of what they hear on social media. They've probably never heard of project 2025. They don't know Trump's unseemly connections with various alt-right groups. Frankly, they haven't heard anything about Trump beyond, probably "he was convicted, he lies, but everyone says the economy was better under him." They don't know much about Biden beyond "well he acts old, and he's like a grandpa, but inflation has made things go up in cost and people say that's his fault."

These are the people you have to reach and convince. The willfully ignorant. Willfilly either due to apathy or, frankly, because they've tuned out of the shitshow that is politics.

[Ihavewaffles]

[Draco-Onis]

And I repeat; if any of that shit makes voters decide to stay home, it means those voters are fascists. They don't have a problem with fascism and the targeting of millions of Americans for abusive treatment up to and including avoidable deaths.

They are bad people whose choices are abominable. Either they can get woken up to what's actually happening, or the USA's already a fallen nation and what we're witnessing here are death throes, not healthy politics.

It doesn't matter what we call or think of them the fact is we need them. As of now Biden looks completely incapable of fighting back against this narrative let alone Trump. We have a transactional relationship with Biden, there's nothing special about him that would be worth sticking with him. If democracy is on the line as we all agree it is we need to be Machiavellian about this, screw Biden's ego if he can't turn things around before the convention we need to dump him like a hot patato.

The donors are already running away he won't get far without the money spigot.

[Surfd]

there's nothing special about him that would be worth sticking with him.

He's the Democratic Frontrunner.
He's NOT a republican.

That's literally the only thing he "needs". All your other handwringing bullshit is exactly that.

[En Sabah Nur]

People keep saying Biden is putting his ego first, that he's selfish to still be running.

What I want to know is who exactly it is that these people believe can take his place right now and actually be successful. Who can out-poll Trump right now. Who can handle the absolute savaging that they'll get from every media outlet.

Who can actually take Trump on and win?

[Shadowferal]

Who can actually take Trump on and win?

Believe it or not...Michelle Obama.

[Draco-Onis]

He's the Democratic Frontrunner.
He's NOT a republican.

That's literally the only thing he "needs". All your other handwringing bullshit is exactly that.

He needs to convince swing state voters which is the only metric that matters everything else is bullshit. I don't care who does it, I will take the corpse of JFK if it means beating Trump.

[En Sabah Nur]

Believe it or not...Michelle Obama.

As far as I know, she has absolutely zero interest in even being involved in politics, let alone running for the highest office, right?

[Poopymonster]

Believe it or not...Michelle Obama.

Do we recall the Caucasity of the R's reaction to a black man being in the White House? And it wasn't as the help but as President?
It's partly how we got into our current predicament.
You can almost see the "Michelle is the second black man to become president" bullshit, complete with photoshopped bulge, from here.

[Malkiah]

He needs to convince swing state voters which is the only metric that matters everything else is bullshit. I don't care who does it, I will take the corpse of JFK if it means beating Trump.

serious question, not just to this specifically but to every argument ever made about how democrats 'need' to 'convince' people of something-or-other... how?
if your entire argument hinges on the idea that these people are stupid, willfully ignorant, disinterested in politics, don't watch the news regularly or inform themselves of current events in any way, and only get their information about the world from 'social media' (whatever that's supposed to mean) then what exactly is the mechanism by which you propose those people get convinced of anything?

[Santti]

Believe it or not...Michelle Obama.

I think she would be good or at least okay, but yeah, I don't believe you. Criminals, rapists and worse? Sure, we love those. But ovaries and a high melanin count? The independents are going to have to make some tough, tough choices.