Bring back rep from dungeons. (hear me out)

[PenguinChan]

...and not a single player would have ever unsubbed from the game if they had just kept us on the Legion launch patch for the rest of time. Those dastardly devs and their penchant for listening to feedback that doesn't come directly from you, center of the known universe!

I really hope he doesn't think Legion is pinnacle Casual yet doesn't like BfA, Shadowlands or Dragonflight one bit.

I agree with you whole cloth but a part of me wants Blizzard to give into the undercurrent of democratic game design philosophy for just a tier or two so that we can witness exactly how bad it is firsthand. Players will be yearning for the days when devs just said "you think you do, but you don't" in less than six months.

Can you elaborate? I don't really know what would be the 'undercurrent' designs.

[MrLachyG]

that would.interrupt their "vision" for the game. The developers have the pretense of being artists.

oh the sheer audacity of these game developers to have their own vision for their game. HOW DARE THEY?

/s

[Relapses]

I really hope he doesn't think Legion is pinnacle Casual yet doesn't like BfA, Shadowlands or Dragonflight one bit.

He gets horny just thinking about Titanforging and infinite AP grinds.

Can you elaborate? I don't really know what would be the 'undercurrent' designs.

I worded that poorly, I'll go back and edit it. I meant the undercurrent of people asking (demanding) for the game to have a democratic approach to game design. People unironically think Blizzard taking the OSRS approach to game design would be a good idea.

[PenguinChan]

He gets horny just thinking about Titanforging and infinite AP grinds.

I find he says nothing in consistency then. He wants WoW to be casual but it's been casual for awhile now. The gear grind is anything but serious and it just has a stopping point these days (It always did, actually. BfA was a rare exception that they ended up putting a cap on the necklace anyways...) This doesn't even begin to explain why he suddenly likes previous expansions yet complained about them constantly when they were out. I don't get it man.

I worded that poorly, I'll go back and edit it. I meant the undercurrent of people asking (demanding) for the game to have a democratic approach to game design. People unironically think Blizzard taking the OSRS approach to game design would be a good idea.

I think in the right context, priority voting is actually a decent idea to let your playerbase vote on. IE: What should they focus on first vs the other things in a poll. IE: 3 major changes, but what would the players like to see done FIRST of those 3. All 3 would be done anyways, but players get to choose the initial one. Stuff like that which reinforces designs already set in place would be interesting to see. But not like: Yes or no poll's unless it's a very controversial change that they are iffy on.

[chrisisvacant]

]
I agree with you whole cloth but a part of me wants Blizzard to give into the undercurrent of players asking them to adopt a democratic game design philosophy for just a tier or two so that we can witness exactly how bad it is firsthand. Players will be yearning for the days when devs just said "you think you do, but you don't" in less than six months.

I feel like they HAVE done that before, no? I feel like every time WoW becomes a Smash-and-Grab, it's because they're catering to the lowest common denominator (money, by way of bad players who won't shut the FUCK up about how hard trash is).

They'll have to redo this little experiment every couple expansions so players remember that they're the consumers and Blizzard are the designers for a reason.

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Theyre short order cooks with the pretention of being more. They put their fucking vision ahead of whats actually fun for people and have subsequently lost litetally millions of players and market share. Why many more of them havent been fired is absurd.If anybody else lost that much theyd have been shit canned immediately.

You don't pay money directly to the cook. Not reading the rest of this bad faith post.

[Jujudrood]

TBH, rep doesn't mean a whole lot anymore, so they should allow farmable grinds.
I don't think it would hurt the game much to attach reps to zones so every mob you kill in the open world is worth 1 rep and every dungeon mob is worth 3-5 rep.
You're not getting a power advantage (sure, the dream has the rune thingie, but it's not *that* massive), and the purple gear many reps do reward gets outdated/replaced rather quickly anyway.
Reps nowadays are for cosmetic stuff, so let people go ham if they choose to.

Maybe one could argue "people will burn out too quickly and/or unsub once they 'finish' the thing they are doing", but I just can't imagine that being a ton of people and moving the needle in any meaningful way.

Also wouldn't hate the tabard thing coming back; you basically champion a faction and get rep, so it makes sense and would help people pick how to do it instead of being forced into farming brackenhide or whatever.

If the people want to grind for cosmetics, I say let them.

[Lynexia]

Why limit it to dungeons?

Why not just wear tabard and you get reputaion for doing mundane things, you would had done anyways?

Or how about going TBC? Not wearing anything at all, still get reputation in dungeons?

You would devalue the worth of factions. It kinda makes it meaningless. Do you see that?

I literally never said it would be limited, jfc learn to read.

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TBH, rep doesn't mean a whole lot anymore, so they should allow farmable grinds.
I don't think it would hurt the game much to attach reps to zones so every mob you kill in the open world is worth 1 rep and every dungeon mob is worth 3-5 rep.
You're not getting a power advantage (sure, the dream has the rune thingie, but it's not *that* massive), and the purple gear many reps do reward gets outdated/replaced rather quickly anyway.
Reps nowadays are for cosmetic stuff, so let people go ham if they choose to.

Maybe one could argue "people will burn out too quickly and/or unsub once they 'finish' the thing they are doing", but I just can't imagine that being a ton of people and moving the needle in any meaningful way.

Also wouldn't hate the tabard thing coming back; you basically champion a faction and get rep, so it makes sense and would help people pick how to do it instead of being forced into farming brackenhide or whatever.

If the people want to grind for cosmetics, I say let them.

I think they should allow us to get the rep any way we like and make them important again. idk about most people but when I first started playing and hit 70 there was nothing I wanted more than to get my thrallmar rep up to get the cool mail shoulders. and doing content I like makes that a fun experience.

[Relapses]

I feel like they HAVE done that before, no? I feel like every time WoW becomes a Smash-and-Grab, it's because they're catering to the lowest common denominator (money, by way of bad players who won't shut the FUCK up about how hard trash is).

They'll have to redo this little experiment every couple expansions so players remember that they're the consumers and Blizzard are the designers for a reason.

To an extent, yes. But that's always an unseen hand. I'm talking full-on devs have zero agency and we vote on every change as the playerbase eats itself alive with everything devolving into a binary us vs them battle of rhetoric.

[FelPlague]

I think letting your players choose how they spend their time, not the other way around, is just better design and respects the player more. Feel free to disagree, but there are definitely ways to handle grinds the players themselves are in control of. Destiny 2 on release had a good one, where it's just infinite re-leveling and such at a chance for random rewards.

Also, many of the people complaining about there being nothing to do in Dragonflight are the same people who also like the rep tabards. Those players don't realize the burnout they'd create for themselves.

Fun fact, that is how they work now.
you can choose how to spend your time for current reps.
you can do your weeklies, your dailys, but if you really want to you can farm out the reps from tokens and mobs.
hell I remember people who maxed out the reps in the first weeks.
Hell I was not too far behind on that.

[PenguinChan]

Fun fact, that is how they work now.
you can choose how to spend your time for current reps.
you can do your weeklies, your dailys, but if you really want to you can farm out the reps from tokens and mobs.
hell I remember people who maxed out the reps in the first weeks.
Hell I was not too far behind on that.

Yeah I know, although I think they could increase the rewards you get in terms of grinding it actively. Only weekly / dailies tend to give big chunks, while constantly playing feels piddly. That's just me though - but I agree, if you REALLY want to you can farm minute amounts constantly.

[Glorious Leader]

I feel like they HAVE done that before, no? I feel like every time WoW becomes a Smash-and-Grab, it's because they're catering to the lowest common denominator (money, by way of bad players who won't shut the FUCK up about how hard trash is).

They'll have to redo this little experiment every couple expansions so players remember that they're the consumers and Blizzard are the designers for a reason.

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You don't pay money directly to the cook. Not reading the rest of this bad faith post.

You dont pay money to the developers directly either. Hazikostas doesnt get my change.

[sam86]

why was it removed seriously, did anyone complain from it? did blizz just remove it because it was universally beloved?

[PenguinChan]

why was it removed seriously, did anyone complain from it? did blizz just remove it because it was universally beloved?

Most likely because it was another way to control where the players went / did things so that they spend time on newer content, not older. That and the WoW team didn't like how it pushed people into a lobby simulator using the RDF tool. Which is fair, they want players to play in the world and do the new content - not sit in Stormwind while waiting in queue, repeatedly.

[HansOlo]

I literally never said it would be limited, jfc learn to read.

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I think they should allow us to get the rep any way we like and make them important again. idk about most people but when I first started playing and hit 70 there was nothing I wanted more than to get my thrallmar rep up to get the cool mail shoulders. and doing content I like makes that a fun experience.

why was it removed seriously, did anyone complain from it? did blizz just remove it because it was universally beloved?

Because its stupid? And about 18years old concept?

Getting exalted just because you are doing Mythic+? Making every other activity reduntant(WQs?) and litteraly killing the evolution of open world content? How about people who don't want to do dungeons?

Have you ever applied for a job? You know when they specifically ask for an analytical person? Yeah - not everybody is.

[PenguinChan]

Because its stupid? And about 18years old concept?

Getting exalted just because you are doing Mythic+? Making every other activity reduntant(WQs?) and litteraly killing the evolution of open world content? How about people who don't want to do dungeons?

Have you ever applied for a job? You know when they specifically ask for an analytical person? Yeah - not everybody is.

Giving players more options to play your game and progress (at varying degrees of speed) is almost always a positive. No clue what gave you the impression that you can't have both of those things.

[HansOlo]

Giving players more options to play your game and progress (at varying degrees of speed) is almost always a positive. No clue what gave you the impression that you can't have both of those things.

It's positive. I really like the way Plunderstorm works. It would just need to apply for many other activities in WoW.

But putting a tabard on is going 18years back in time.

[Lynexia]

Giving players more options to play your game and progress (at varying degrees of speed) is almost always a positive. No clue what gave you the impression that you can't have both of those things.

that's wow players they always think any given suggestion is mutually exclusive with what they like.

[FelPlague]

why was it removed seriously, did anyone complain from it? did blizz just remove it because it was universally beloved?

Yes, it was removed because people complained about reps being
"Get tabard, then spam the easiest dungeon for 3 hours, then the rep is done."

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Giving players more options to play your game and progress (at varying degrees of speed) is almost always a positive. No clue what gave you the impression that you can't have both of those things.

Except it did not give players "motre options"
Because it was the ONLY option.

if you can do the same easy as fuck dungeon for 3 hours and get exalted, or spend a month doing dailies, which one do you think players are guna "choose"
there was no choice.

[Glorious Leader]

Yes, it was removed because people complained about reps being
"Get tabard, then spam the easiest dungeon for 3 hours, then the rep is done."

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Except it did not give players "motre options"
Because it was the ONLY option.

if you can do the same easy as fuck dungeon for 3 hours and get exalted, or spend a month doing dailies, which one do you think players are guna "choose"
there was no choice.

Yea i really think this is the dumbest logic. The response to this illusion of choice is to simple cut the choice out completely as if this actually resulted in more choice.

The reality is it had nothing to do with player feedback. The developers are simple heavy handed oafs who insist on pushing their "vision" on people regardless. That way whatever bullshit metrics they use to measure success pan out and they can pat themselves on the back.

[PenguinChan]

Yes, it was removed because people complained about reps being
"Get tabard, then spam the easiest dungeon for 3 hours, then the rep is done."

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Except it did not give players "motre options"
Because it was the ONLY option.

if you can do the same easy as fuck dungeon for 3 hours and get exalted, or spend a month doing dailies, which one do you think players are guna "choose"
there was no choice.

I’m not even referring to how WotLK did it in detail, I am just mentioning how having options is a good thing. Yes, when you make it too lopsided people will do that instead. But if you tie the rewards to say, dungeon completion and put it on par with maybe 1-2 dailies (or ‘x’ amount of world quests) then it’s more comparable and a way to keep progressing without feeling the need to go any which way you don’t like. Obviously this can get too out of hand and people want even know what they want without a properly guided carrot on a stick