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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post


    pretty much. They dont want players to have ANY agency over how they play the game or earn rewards
    that would.interrupt their "vision" for the game. The developers have the pretense of being artists.

  2. #42
    For every person in this thread talking about how the new system sucks and they should go back to tabard/rep grinds like they used to have, is another player who thinks that’s terrible.
    Do people not even remember why we have time gating now? It’s because players complained that they got stuff done too fast and griped, whined, and bitched to Blizzard about how they have nothing to do because they got it done too fast. Players wanted a reason to log in every day. They wanted a reason to keep playing after the grind was done.
    Now, we all know that most people mean they want an new content every single week of the game, that takes 20+ hours to complete, and gives them new dungeons, world zones, and storylines to take part in. Short of Blizzard hiring 10,000 employees working 24 hours a day, every day of the week, people should know that’s not feasible.
    So, Blizz timegated their content. They slowed down how quickly things can be completed, as well as added in weekly campaign quests, thereby giving people reasons to log in and play later on.
    This even can benefit the casuals as they can buy the xpac later on down the road and play once everything is released.
    Also, I’m not blind to the flip side. This method is a win win for Blizz. They give players what they want, and they increase their MAUs. I have no doubt that it helps them as well with their investors and marketing strategies; but, to pretend that for every player who whines and bitches about this current setup, there’s not someone who prefers it this way, is ignorant at best. If Blizz brings back tabards and dungeon farm we’d just have people complain how they’re forced to do it to keep up or no life their game.
    Funny thing is, I can already hear the click clacking of keys as people furiously type away about how people choose to do that, and it’s their choice, all the while neglecting that they’d be mad that they get left behind by the no lifers and can’t get invited to content because they’re too far behind the grind.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    For every person in this thread talking about how the new system sucks and they should go back to tabard/rep grinds like they used to have, is another player who thinks that’s terrible.
    Do people not even remember why we have time gating now? It’s because players complained that they got stuff done too fast and griped, whined, and bitched to Blizzard about how they have nothing to do because they got it done too fast. Players wanted a reason to log in every day. They wanted a reason to keep playing after the grind was done.
    Now, we all know that most people mean they want an new content every single week of the game, that takes 20+ hours to complete, and gives them new dungeons, world zones, and storylines to take part in. Short of Blizzard hiring 10,000 employees working 24 hours a day, every day of the week, people should know that’s not feasible.
    So, Blizz timegated their content. They slowed down how quickly things can be completed, as well as added in weekly campaign quests, thereby giving people reasons to log in and play later on.
    This even can benefit the casuals as they can buy the xpac later on down the road and play once everything is released.
    Also, I’m not blind to the flip side. This method is a win win for Blizz. They give players what they want, and they increase their MAUs. I have no doubt that it helps them as well with their investors and marketing strategies; but, to pretend that for every player who whines and bitches about this current setup, there’s not someone who prefers it this way, is ignorant at best. If Blizz brings back tabards and dungeon farm we’d just have people complain how they’re forced to do it to keep up or no life their game.
    Funny thing is, I can already hear the click clacking of keys as people furiously type away about how people choose to do that, and it’s their choice, all the while neglecting that they’d be mad that they get left behind by the no lifers and can’t get invited to content because they’re too far behind the grind.
    I think letting your players choose how they spend their time, not the other way around, is just better design and respects the player more. Feel free to disagree, but there are definitely ways to handle grinds the players themselves are in control of. Destiny 2 on release had a good one, where it's just infinite re-leveling and such at a chance for random rewards.

    Also, many of the people complaining about there being nothing to do in Dragonflight are the same people who also like the rep tabards. Those players don't realize the burnout they'd create for themselves.

  4. #44
    I'm the only one around here....that farm reputation for my race faction in my alts, just for the sake of changing my guards in my Garrison to my own race?.
    My Dwarven Garrison is amazing by the way. Dwarves everywhere!. I love it!

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    that would.interrupt their "vision" for the game. The developers have the pretense of being artists.
    They're game designers. They design a game. Play it or don't. Design-by-committee does not work.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    They're game designers. They design a game. Play it or don't. Design-by-committee does not work.
    Theyre short order cooks with the pretention of being more. They put their fucking vision ahead of whats actually fun for people and have subsequently lost litetally millions of players and market share. Why many more of them havent been fired is absurd.If anybody else lost that much theyd have been shit canned immediately.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Theyre short order cooks with the pretention of being more. They put their fucking vision ahead of whats actually fun for people and have subsequently lost litetally millions of players and market share. Why many more of them havent been fired is absurd.If anybody else lost that much theyd have been shit canned immediately.
    ...and not a single player would have ever unsubbed from the game if they had just kept us on the Legion launch patch for the rest of time. Those dastardly devs and their penchant for listening to feedback that doesn't come directly from you, center of the known universe!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    They're game designers. They design a game. Play it or don't. Design-by-committee does not work.
    I agree with you whole cloth but a part of me wants Blizzard to give into the undercurrent of players asking them to adopt a democratic game design philosophy for just a tier or two so that we can witness exactly how bad it is firsthand. Players will be yearning for the days when devs just said "you think you do, but you don't" in less than six months.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2024-04-04 at 04:17 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    Ok so, some time ago the decisions was made to remove reputation grinding from dungeons.

    I think this was a mistake and was only done for time gating purposes.

    So... My suggestion here would be to give us 5 ways to earn rep, but SOFT cap us at a certain point.

    Allow us to do the following for rep

    Delves,
    Dungeons,
    World Quests, - Might have to change how these work for it to be viable, maybe each time you complete one a new one appears.
    Mob Grinding,
    Raiding

    Each day you can gain a maximum amount of reputation, lets say 5000 (probably much less but as an example). You can pick to represent a faction, you can change who you represent any time by visiting the quartermaster of the faction (or just bring back tabards for this).

    Once you hit the reputation cap, you can keep grinding via your preferred method but all rep gains will be reduced by 95% meaning the most you're going to get is like five rep for a boss and maybe 1 for every couple of normal mobs and 2 or 3 for an elite pack (from like a dungeon).

    This allows 3 things

    You gain rep via the method of your own choosing
    You can choose to grind it out or just do your daily
    You passively gain rep just playing regardless of the activity
    Why limit it to dungeons?

    Why not just wear tabard and you get reputaion for doing mundane things, you would had done anyways?

    Or how about going TBC? Not wearing anything at all, still get reputation in dungeons?

    You would devalue the worth of factions. It kinda makes it meaningless. Do you see that?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    ...and not a single player would have ever unsubbed from the game if they had just kept us on the Legion launch patch for the rest of time. Those dastardly devs and their penchant for listening to feedback that doesn't come directly from you, center of the known universe!
    I really hope he doesn't think Legion is pinnacle Casual yet doesn't like BfA, Shadowlands or Dragonflight one bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I agree with you whole cloth but a part of me wants Blizzard to give into the undercurrent of democratic game design philosophy for just a tier or two so that we can witness exactly how bad it is firsthand. Players will be yearning for the days when devs just said "you think you do, but you don't" in less than six months.
    Can you elaborate? I don't really know what would be the 'undercurrent' designs.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    that would.interrupt their "vision" for the game. The developers have the pretense of being artists.
    oh the sheer audacity of these game developers to have their own vision for their game. HOW DARE THEY?

    /s

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    I really hope he doesn't think Legion is pinnacle Casual yet doesn't like BfA, Shadowlands or Dragonflight one bit.
    He gets horny just thinking about Titanforging and infinite AP grinds.

    Can you elaborate? I don't really know what would be the 'undercurrent' designs.
    I worded that poorly, I'll go back and edit it. I meant the undercurrent of people asking (demanding) for the game to have a democratic approach to game design. People unironically think Blizzard taking the OSRS approach to game design would be a good idea.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    He gets horny just thinking about Titanforging and infinite AP grinds.
    I find he says nothing in consistency then. He wants WoW to be casual but it's been casual for awhile now. The gear grind is anything but serious and it just has a stopping point these days (It always did, actually. BfA was a rare exception that they ended up putting a cap on the necklace anyways...) This doesn't even begin to explain why he suddenly likes previous expansions yet complained about them constantly when they were out. I don't get it man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I worded that poorly, I'll go back and edit it. I meant the undercurrent of people asking (demanding) for the game to have a democratic approach to game design. People unironically think Blizzard taking the OSRS approach to game design would be a good idea.
    I think in the right context, priority voting is actually a decent idea to let your playerbase vote on. IE: What should they focus on first vs the other things in a poll. IE: 3 major changes, but what would the players like to see done FIRST of those 3. All 3 would be done anyways, but players get to choose the initial one. Stuff like that which reinforces designs already set in place would be interesting to see. But not like: Yes or no poll's unless it's a very controversial change that they are iffy on.

  13. #53
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    ]
    I agree with you whole cloth but a part of me wants Blizzard to give into the undercurrent of players asking them to adopt a democratic game design philosophy for just a tier or two so that we can witness exactly how bad it is firsthand. Players will be yearning for the days when devs just said "you think you do, but you don't" in less than six months.
    I feel like they HAVE done that before, no? I feel like every time WoW becomes a Smash-and-Grab, it's because they're catering to the lowest common denominator (money, by way of bad players who won't shut the FUCK up about how hard trash is).

    They'll have to redo this little experiment every couple expansions so players remember that they're the consumers and Blizzard are the designers for a reason.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Theyre short order cooks with the pretention of being more. They put their fucking vision ahead of whats actually fun for people and have subsequently lost litetally millions of players and market share. Why many more of them havent been fired is absurd.If anybody else lost that much theyd have been shit canned immediately.
    You don't pay money directly to the cook. Not reading the rest of this bad faith post.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Theyre short order cooks with the pretention of being more. They put their fucking vision ahead of whats actually fun for people and have subsequently lost litetally millions of players and market share. Why many more of them havent been fired is absurd.If anybody else lost that much theyd have been shit canned immediately.
    Yep. Game designers should be designing for the audience, not for shareholders.

  15. #55
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    TBH, rep doesn't mean a whole lot anymore, so they should allow farmable grinds.
    I don't think it would hurt the game much to attach reps to zones so every mob you kill in the open world is worth 1 rep and every dungeon mob is worth 3-5 rep.
    You're not getting a power advantage (sure, the dream has the rune thingie, but it's not *that* massive), and the purple gear many reps do reward gets outdated/replaced rather quickly anyway.
    Reps nowadays are for cosmetic stuff, so let people go ham if they choose to.

    Maybe one could argue "people will burn out too quickly and/or unsub once they 'finish' the thing they are doing", but I just can't imagine that being a ton of people and moving the needle in any meaningful way.

    Also wouldn't hate the tabard thing coming back; you basically champion a faction and get rep, so it makes sense and would help people pick how to do it instead of being forced into farming brackenhide or whatever.

    If the people want to grind for cosmetics, I say let them.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    Why limit it to dungeons?

    Why not just wear tabard and you get reputaion for doing mundane things, you would had done anyways?

    Or how about going TBC? Not wearing anything at all, still get reputation in dungeons?

    You would devalue the worth of factions. It kinda makes it meaningless. Do you see that?
    I literally never said it would be limited, jfc learn to read.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    TBH, rep doesn't mean a whole lot anymore, so they should allow farmable grinds.
    I don't think it would hurt the game much to attach reps to zones so every mob you kill in the open world is worth 1 rep and every dungeon mob is worth 3-5 rep.
    You're not getting a power advantage (sure, the dream has the rune thingie, but it's not *that* massive), and the purple gear many reps do reward gets outdated/replaced rather quickly anyway.
    Reps nowadays are for cosmetic stuff, so let people go ham if they choose to.

    Maybe one could argue "people will burn out too quickly and/or unsub once they 'finish' the thing they are doing", but I just can't imagine that being a ton of people and moving the needle in any meaningful way.

    Also wouldn't hate the tabard thing coming back; you basically champion a faction and get rep, so it makes sense and would help people pick how to do it instead of being forced into farming brackenhide or whatever.

    If the people want to grind for cosmetics, I say let them.
    I think they should allow us to get the rep any way we like and make them important again. idk about most people but when I first started playing and hit 70 there was nothing I wanted more than to get my thrallmar rep up to get the cool mail shoulders. and doing content I like makes that a fun experience.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    I feel like they HAVE done that before, no? I feel like every time WoW becomes a Smash-and-Grab, it's because they're catering to the lowest common denominator (money, by way of bad players who won't shut the FUCK up about how hard trash is).

    They'll have to redo this little experiment every couple expansions so players remember that they're the consumers and Blizzard are the designers for a reason.
    To an extent, yes. But that's always an unseen hand. I'm talking full-on devs have zero agency and we vote on every change as the playerbase eats itself alive with everything devolving into a binary us vs them battle of rhetoric.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    I think letting your players choose how they spend their time, not the other way around, is just better design and respects the player more. Feel free to disagree, but there are definitely ways to handle grinds the players themselves are in control of. Destiny 2 on release had a good one, where it's just infinite re-leveling and such at a chance for random rewards.

    Also, many of the people complaining about there being nothing to do in Dragonflight are the same people who also like the rep tabards. Those players don't realize the burnout they'd create for themselves.
    Fun fact, that is how they work now.
    you can choose how to spend your time for current reps.
    you can do your weeklies, your dailys, but if you really want to you can farm out the reps from tokens and mobs.
    hell I remember people who maxed out the reps in the first weeks.
    Hell I was not too far behind on that.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Fun fact, that is how they work now.
    you can choose how to spend your time for current reps.
    you can do your weeklies, your dailys, but if you really want to you can farm out the reps from tokens and mobs.
    hell I remember people who maxed out the reps in the first weeks.
    Hell I was not too far behind on that.
    Yeah I know, although I think they could increase the rewards you get in terms of grinding it actively. Only weekly / dailies tend to give big chunks, while constantly playing feels piddly. That's just me though - but I agree, if you REALLY want to you can farm minute amounts constantly.

  20. #60
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    I feel like they HAVE done that before, no? I feel like every time WoW becomes a Smash-and-Grab, it's because they're catering to the lowest common denominator (money, by way of bad players who won't shut the FUCK up about how hard trash is).

    They'll have to redo this little experiment every couple expansions so players remember that they're the consumers and Blizzard are the designers for a reason.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You don't pay money directly to the cook. Not reading the rest of this bad faith post.
    You dont pay money to the developers directly either. Hazikostas doesnt get my change.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

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