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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    I thought about listing some ideas how blizzard could improve casual gamer gameplay in the world and in general. Add yours if you like or flame the shit out of mine if you think they are inadequate:

    1.) No thousand currencies

    An example from dragonflight:

    1. Flightstones
    2. Elemental Overflow
    3. Dragon Isles Supplies
    4. Wyrm's Dreaming Crest
    5. Drake's Dreaming Crest
    6. Aspect's Dreaming Crest
    7. Whelpling's Dreaming Crest
    8. Storm Sigil
    9. Paracausal Flakes
    10. Mysterious Fragment
    11. Dream Infusion
    12. Emerald Dewdrop
    13. Seedbloom
    14. Wyrm's Awakened Crest
    15. Whelpling's Awakened Crest
    16. Aspect's Awakened Crest
    17. Cobalt Assembly
    18. Dragon Glyph Embers
    19. Effigy Adornments
    20. Purified Arcane Energy

    2.) No inventory full of green or white quest garbage - "Fragment of a broken gnome helmet, #2892", "Little spark of a enchanted something (100)", "Horn splinters of a deceased gnomosaur (1000)"..
    3.) No overly complex pathes to get to endgame. In the splash starting screen always link the quest where current endgame starts ("Ok, adventurerer, please click here to get the link to "Breadcrumb quest of the very new island noone ever saw before")
    4.) Do not make campaigns linear. Allow people to skip older campaign quests
    5.) Make gameplay rewarding. And no, transmogs are not enough.
    6.) Create instanced gameplay for solo players and small groups. Every expac. Try not to skip that as like in Dragonflight.
    7.) Share every reputation/renown/any kind of bar progression on the whole account (Yes, yes, i know, warbands..)
    8.) Make leveling matter for more than .. leveling. Example: Allow people to get heirlooms from questing. And not just.. gold.

    If you have ideas, go for it.
    I agree(and im the biggest shill here).

    Too complex or plain stupid currency system. If not currency, you have bags full of random crap(Blizzard achknowledges this in an interview). It bothered me since the release of DF. All of this could be boiled down til lesser or greater tokens(2 currencies).

    I disagree with the rest and I hope you will quit soon.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2024-04-03 at 05:45 AM.

  2. #82
    You have to be a certain kind of uh... special to get confused by the currencies in DF.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Caerrona View Post
    You have to be a certain kind of uh... special to get confused by the currencies in DF.
    It's bad.

    I give you 10euro - in return you give me pesos, lira and crypto worth 10 euro. Now my wallet is full of pesos, a litle bit of lira and I don't know where the crypto is and I need dollars.

    You tell me that you can give me dollars, if I give you 2 noodles.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2024-04-03 at 05:58 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    I thought about listing some ideas how blizzard could improve casual gamer gameplay in the world and in general. Add yours if you like or flame the shit out of mine if you think they are inadequate:

    1.) No thousand currencies

    An example from dragonflight:

    1. Flightstones
    2. Elemental Overflow
    3. Dragon Isles Supplies
    4. Wyrm's Dreaming Crest
    5. Drake's Dreaming Crest
    6. Aspect's Dreaming Crest
    7. Whelpling's Dreaming Crest
    8. Storm Sigil
    9. Paracausal Flakes
    10. Mysterious Fragment
    11. Dream Infusion
    12. Emerald Dewdrop
    13. Seedbloom
    14. Wyrm's Awakened Crest
    15. Whelpling's Awakened Crest
    16. Aspect's Awakened Crest
    17. Cobalt Assembly
    18. Dragon Glyph Embers
    19. Effigy Adornments
    20. Purified Arcane Energy
    Fun fact, the red are all not currencies.

    Flightstones Earned from all endgame content, used for upgrading gear.
    Elemental Overflow Earned from elemental events, used for some early gear/cosmetics.
    Dragon Isles Supplies Earned from pretty much everything in small amounts, used for purchasing things from rep vendors.
    Wyrm's Dreaming Crest Earned from med-high difficulty endgame content, used to upgrade gear of that level.
    Drake's Dreaming Crest Earned from low-med difficulty endgame content, used to upgrade gear of that level.
    Aspect's Dreaming Crest Earned from high difficulty endgame content, used to upgrade gear of that level.
    Whelpling's Dreaming Crest Earned from low difficulty endgame content, used to upgrade gear of that level.
    Storm Sigil Earned from elemental events to upgrade elemental gear further.
    Paracausal Flakes Earned from time rifts to purchase timerifts gear/cosmetics.
    Mysterious Fragment Earned from big digs for big dig cosmetics.
    Dream Infusion earned from doing a daily quest, allows you to buy various cosmetics.
    Emerald Dewdrop Earned from superbloom, used to water seeds.
    Seedbloom Not a currency, an item you earn 1 a week from doing a quest for a lady, and you literally use it at her, the person you got the quest from, to buy various items, transmogs, mounts ,pets, etc. Literally this is not even a currency, and this item is only ever in your bags for a minute each week while you decide what you wanna buy with it.
    Wyrm's Awakened Crest Same thing as above, but you listed it twice for some reason. As when these crests get added, the "Dreaming Crests" will be deleted, as was the shadowflame crests. it works like badges in cataclysm, and how conquest has always worked pretty much. Honor as end of a season converts to gold in mail, as does spare conquest.
    Whelpling's Awakened Crest Same thing as above, but you listed it twice for some reason
    Aspect's Awakened Crest Same thing as above, but you listed it twice for some reason, also funnily enough forgot the drake awakened crest this time?
    Cobalt Assembly Not a currency... This is a reputation.
    Dragon Glyph Embers Again not a currency, these are talent points earned by finding dragon glyphs. It's not a currency, we really consider talent points a "currency" aw man, I leveled up, I got another talent points currency."
    Effigy Adornments Fun fact, this currency is not even in the game, it was only ever on beta, it never even got added to the game, holy shit you literally don't even play the game, you just spout what you find randomly online.

    Purified Arcane Energy This is the currency that is actually what you get as a currency for the cobalt assembly rep, the rep you listed as a currency earlier, THIS is the currency.

    So not only are only 12 of your 20 listed items actually currencies.
    Of those 12
    4 of them are just different difficulty tiers of the same currency, so unless you do high end content you will only see probably 3 of them if you do heroic, and 2 of them if you do normal.
    4 of them are specific to one world event, and can be put on unused the second you get all the cosmetics or instantly if you do not care about em.
    4 are just a passive currency you can put on ignore if you play any decent amount, it is gold but for rep/emerald/big dig items, and you will just get tons of it just doing content there.
    Literally of your 20 currencies listed, 8 were not currencies, and the last 12 fit into only 3 categories.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2024-04-03 at 06:37 AM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    It's bad.

    I give you 10euro - in return you give me pesos, lira and crypto worth 10 euro. Now my wallet is full of pesos, a litle bit of lira and I don't know where the crypto is and I need dollars.

    You tell me that you can give me dollars, if I give you 2 noodles.
    I guess my assessment was spot on if that's what you think currencies in DF are.

    They are very straightforward (I could see a world where there is a couple less overall) but they arn't confusing or whatever you just drooled all over your keyboard.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    It's bad.

    I give you 10euro - in return you give me pesos, lira and crypto worth 10 euro. Now my wallet is full of pesos, a litle bit of lira and I don't know where the crypto is and I need dollars.

    You tell me that you can give me dollars, if I give you 2 noodles.
    Should maybe take another look at the "list" of currencies?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Should maybe take another look at the "list" of currencies?
    I'm weird, I actually think we should have more gameplay only currencies that stick around past content islands (major patches) / expansions. IE: Gold but for cosmetic or other types of rewards. It's strange that we only have gold that accumulates but it's rarely used these days in favor of ever-renewing currencies but nothing to replace it so that its base function is essentially player-driven stuff only. Not content driven.

    Even FFXIV has its basic tomes lol, where is that for WoW.

  8. #88
    Brewmaster Julmara's Avatar
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    glad its going not like the way you want

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    You know your post is bad when I assumed you were mocking the OP but then realised you were actually legitimately suggesting these things.

    Are you nuts?

    You have literally no idea what you are talking about, please stop talking.
    I'm damn serious. No trolling. If I would need to rank all problems with Wow content, it would be following:
    1) Exceeding combat, navigation puzzles, jump puzzles
    2) Overtuned content
    3) Bad reward system
    4) Pseudo-PVP, exceeding competition, toxicity and all other ways of negative impact by other players

    For example what is needed to turn ZM into good content:
    1) Remove clutter
    2) Make rares soloable
    3) Fix reward system to be at least RNG, bad luck protection is recommended
    4) Turn cypher grind from reward ilvl into gear upgrade system to prevent FOMO

    Is it hard? No. Would it be hard to design content this way initially? No. Blizzard just way too stubborn and too obsessed to do it. Or just plain incompetent.

    I don't care about Wow 11.0, if it's not solo-MMO. No half-measures - just perfect xpack.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    I'm damn serious. No trolling. If I would need to rank all problems with Wow content, it would be following:
    1) Exceeding combat, navigation puzzles, jump puzzles
    2) Overtuned content
    3) Bad reward system
    4) Pseudo-PVP, exceeding competition, toxicity and all other ways of negative impact by other players

    For example what is needed to turn ZM into good content:
    1) Remove clutter
    2) Make rares soloable
    3) Fix reward system to be at least RNG, bad luck protection is recommended
    4) Turn cypher grind from reward ilvl into gear upgrade system to prevent FOMO

    Is it hard? No. Would it be hard to design content this way initially? No. Blizzard just way too stubborn and too obsessed to do it. Or just plain incompetent.
    Zerith mortis?

    You mean that zone from like 2 years ago? Bro do you really think they are going to go back and revamp an old end game zone?

  11. #91
    I am Murloc! Tomana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    Why am I not surprised that someone with a final fantasy looking avatar wants the game to be easy
    Depends on what part of the game you are talking about. Raids in either FF or WoW are not that easy. ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    Also dragonflight has 0 borrowed power but you'd know that if you actually played.
    Yes, for the first time since, uuuuuuuuuuuh, Legion at least? Let's wait a bit before making stats from 1 occurrence, shall we?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    Again this has been solved by the new UI features in wows newest patches, if the last time you played was BFA then you have literally no clue what you are talking about...
    You don't have to play the game because you can watch a vid. The default UI is still meh at best. Yeah, sure, it's better than it was in the past, but overall, the default approach is still "bleh, add-on makers will fix it anyways". Not that I mind that, having more options is always better as far as UI is concerned. It's when bosses are designed with DBM/BigWigs and WeakAuras in mind when things start getting annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    also Grid is a shit addon, as a healer it's basically the worst addon you can have. I'm worried if healers that I know use it...
    You are welcome to use any other addon
    Back in BFA, it was either that or Vuhdo/Clique and I didn't like either of them for various reasons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Is it hard? No. Would it be hard to design content this way initially? No. Blizzard just way too stubborn and too obsessed to do it. Or just plain incompetent.
    To be fair, going back and adapting old stuff is something all MMORPGs are notoriously bad at.
    But yeah, Ion running the show is definitely not helping that case.
    MMO player
    WoW: 2006-2020 || EvE: 2013-2020 // 2023- || FFXIV: 2020- || Lost Ark: 2022-

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    .
    Pro-Tips on how to design casual player content right
    ...and these are "Pro-Tips" because you are a professional game designer and could give us a bit of an insight on which games you worked?

    Also I guess you need to check your mail now for a thank you letter from devs all around the world, as they would have never thought of all these things without this thread.

    (P.S: I actually agree that for my taste there are too many currency and all the junk in my inventory piss me off - I just fear they are actually there for a reason. A reason that we may not like...but that works. There is literally NO other explanation of the inflation of currency and clutter than that it is deliberate and "somehow" by some metric works.)

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Depends on what part of the game you are talking about. Raids in either FF or WoW are not that easy. ^^



    Yes, for the first time since, uuuuuuuuuuuh, Legion at least? Let's wait a bit before making stats from 1 occurrence, shall we?




    You don't have to play the game because you can watch a vid. The default UI is still meh at best. Yeah, sure, it's better than it was in the past, but overall, the default approach is still "bleh, add-on makers will fix it anyways". Not that I mind that, having more options is always better as far as UI is concerned. It's when bosses are designed with DBM/BigWigs and WeakAuras in mind when things start getting annoying.



    You are welcome to use any other addon
    Back in BFA, it was either that or Vuhdo/Clique and I didn't like either of them for various reasons.

    - - - Updated - - -



    To be fair, going back and adapting old stuff is something all MMORPGs are notoriously bad at.
    But yeah, Ion running the show is definitely not helping that case.
    Final fantasy is exceedingly easy when put against wows raids

    The war within is also confirmed to have no borrowed power, Blizzard have learned it's not a good way to do things... it's literally the only reason I still have a subscription. When the games in a bad state I do not play it.

    Also I wouldn't say shadowlands had borrowed power... I mean technically it did but since most of the abilities people picked were integrated into the 10.0 talent trees they kinda retroactively became evergreen power.

    Videos have bias, videos are made by people and people make mistakes. Videos made by said people can also give false and/or presumptive information presented as fact. Many people use the default UI now since it is far more robust and does everything it needs to do to ensure that players can play even without addons.

    Just because you "don't like" something doesn't make it a non-viable option, and bosses are not designed that way.. Bosses are designed so that a lot of preplanning has to go into runs. Addons like weak auras are just tools that raid leaders use. As someone who makes advanced weak auras for my guild I can tell you right now that we could have done it without the weak auras but it's a lot simpler with them.

    Take nymue mythic for example, there are 3 transitions and each transition has 3 adds, 2 trees and 1 elemental. the 2 trees are just normal adds and can be killed however but the elemental has a bubble around it, each player can only enter the bubble one time in the fight as it increases damage taken inside the bubble by a lot and stacks. So your raid generally has 3 groups and you swap out what group goes to the elemental add each transition... This can easily be done without the help of an addon. But due to it being a mechanic that requires you to not only know when it's your turn to kill the elemental but also where you go when it's not your turn... An addon can be used to sort this ahead of time and give people the information on their screen accessible any time so that if they forget they can just remind themselves at any time.

    Addons are not used because bosses are impossible without them, addons are used because you experience less user error when people have them and in mythic raiding that's how you get things down in a reasonable amount of time. But the raids aren't designed with those addons in mind, in fact blizzard are constantly breaking addons when they don't want them to work with certain parts of a fight.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    It's bad.

    I give you 10euro - in return you give me pesos, lira and crypto worth 10 euro. Now my wallet is full of pesos, a litle bit of lira and I don't know where the crypto is and I need dollars.

    You tell me that you can give me dollars, if I give you 2 noodles.
    That's not really how anything works, but okay lol

  15. #95
    Mechagnome Sezerek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynexia View Post
    Zerith mortis?

    You mean that zone from like 2 years ago? Bro do you really think they are going to go back and revamp an old end game zone?
    He is still playing Shadowlands the last 2 years because he never bought DF.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezerek View Post
    He is still playing Shadowlands the last 2 years because he never bought DF.
    So he's paid ~$300 in sub money to play abandoned content? I get not buying the latest expansion if you don't like it, but holy shit, just play a different game!

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Taen View Post
    So he's paid ~$300 in sub money to play abandoned content? I get not buying the latest expansion if you don't like it, but holy shit, just play a different game!
    given some of his past complaints were literaly made up i wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt play at all and is just very devout but weak troll

  18. #98
    Stood in the Fire Merpish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Then theyre fucking SHIT developers who should have been canned years ago. They cant seem to retain any of those casual players.

    Wrong. The vast majority of the playerbase are casual players who don't interact with the game outside of when they play it. What it seems like you're asking for really, is for them to develop content to cater to the players who stick around for only 2-3 months every expansion and then pop back up occasionally on a patch/expac release.

    There is nothing that can be done to keep these players around, they are seasonal and flighty by nature. The core backbone of WoW players come in two kinds:

    1. Players who play WoW all the time, but don't actively talk about it with people on forums
    2. People who play WoW, do the hard content that Blizzard makes, as well as all the other content that they create when their primary goals are completed.


    The people you want Blizzard to start focusing on aren't worth focusing on because they don't do anything in this game.
    Everyone on the internet is a dishonest actor.

  19. #99
    These are not actually "pro tips", as in tips from someone who professionally designs MMOs, right?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    These are not actually "pro tips", as in tips from someone who professionally designs MMOs, right?
    Not anymore. They are just coming from a pro-casual gamer. Super-casual even That casual i play monthly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    So not only are only 12 of your 20 listed items actually currencies.
    Thank you for pointing that out. It does not really change my argument. Call it currencies, call it bar-filler-pixels, call it whatever you want which could have an amount to buy things ingame. For me everything that can be used to buy an object in a game is a currency.

    Even those 1000 bear asses you have to farm to turn it into a "big bear ass hide", where you need 10 from to craft "The big smelly leather jacket of the bear hunter".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Passing through View Post
    (P.S: I actually agree that for my taste there are too many currency and all the junk in my inventory piss me off - I just fear they are actually there for a reason. A reason that we may not like...but that works. There is literally NO other explanation of the inflation of currency and clutter than that it is deliberate and "somehow" by some metric works.)
    Do not worry, i do not tell anyone you agree! But they simply could reduce that currency- and white- and green-inventory bloat to gain one currency for different tasks, and to allow us to buy different things with it. The good old item-vendors. As like pvp got it back in shadowlands!

    It was a day of joy and fun, a celebration which only could be bigger once Hazzikostas leaves Blizzard. I was there when they were at Oribos, the honor-vendors for pvp battlegrounds and arena! It was as like the beatles reunited and made one great song after the other.

    Just this for pve, and i really would become the biggest fan of the devs again, and would praise their great work again and again, over and over. And if they did everything else as i ask them for as well, i would not just be their fan, but their Aspostle. Their bringer of true love for everything they do, for all eternity.

    But as they will do neither, here i am. Hoping for a better world. Complaining about their bias, their bad work, their bad focus. Just waiting for them to troll me another time.
    Last edited by schmonz; 2024-04-03 at 05:44 PM.

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