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  1. #321
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by virexnl View Post
    fomo content brings in money, solo mode in a MMORPG is something nobody is asking for, there are 100s of solo RPG games go play those
    If nobody is asking for it, why do I see a lot of people asking for it?


    side note, this is not me agreeing with op.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  2. #322
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisuke411 View Post

    I'd argue the game in its current state is hardly more healthy than MoP-WoD era. It might have had boosts from Classic, SoD, or otherwise in the more recent era, but Dragonflight is a far cry from WotLK in terms of setting, theme, story, features, class design, and even class balance. I think the only things that have legitimately improved are solo content, alt management, and simple QoL things that one expects from a modern MMO, not just the market frontrunner.
    To say wotlk is better then dragonflight in features is fucking hilarious, please I would love to hear how many amazing features wotlk had that are better then all the countless features we now have in dragonflight.

    You say the "only thing that have improved are solo content, alt, and qol"
    What about travel? Dragon riding is amazing compared to old flying
    what about gearing? crests and the vault are SOOOO much better then badges and... RNG
    What about dungeons? Back in wotlk once you got to raiding, you literally only did 1 dungeon a day for your (current) badge, now dungeons are an entire possible progression path for those who don't want to raid.
    What about transmog?
    Also if you think class balance was better in wotlk you are actually insane, cause I remember wotlk, I remember how fucked balance was, by the end of it balance was ok, but for a good 50% of it, balance was FUCKED. I still remember Dk's insane power level, being able to solo multiple people, resurrect themselves and allies as extremely powerful ghouls. Fear enemies with their aoe, be both an unkillable tank, and top dps AT THE SAME TIME.
    Class balance was mad fucked in wotlk, as is every expansion. But DK's were a million times more unbalanced then evokers were at launch. Hell people complained about how powerful augmentation was, when it was pathetic compared to how 3.0 death knights were. I still remember early wotlk watching Dk's solo dungeons.
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Remove combat, Mobs, PvP, and Difficult Content

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    How do we know retail wow is doing well? The analytics. Which show M+ still has record high numbers, as does raiding.
    "Only reason wow is not 1 million subs is wow classic" lololol what?
    "Wod had better sub numbers" no, no it did not, what the fuck are you on about? "Even start of shadowlands was promising
    yeah, so was the start of wod, that does not make the expansion good.

    Because asmon wants to remove the game, and make it a boss battle simulator. He has commonly said he just wants everything but raid bosses removed, consumes. trash, travel, open world content, reps, your collectables, all gone.
    he does not want wow, he wants a new game, he has been pleading blizz literally just shut down wow and make a new game for a long time now, he says the game as is, is too cluttered, there is too much stuff, so blizz should just delete it all, and if you think you can say that "matters for the broader wow community" you are insane.
    First of all, sub numbers were public back in WOD. Also look up sales figures for WOD and shadowlands. You can see Belluar or other sources for current speculated sub numbers and raiding activity that is gotten through 3rd party websites. Activity is very low, but look it up if you want to. Dont take my words for it. Edit: I should say right now mythic+ numbers are up, but I more think thats due to newer/easier entry to barrier. And fact that mythic+ is to important for progress for average solo players.


    Asmongold talks about all the time-wasting mechanics of retail wow vs other mmos like final fantasy 14 or however its spelled. He dislikes re-buffing, summoning ppl, relying on warlocks, consums and all that fluff that takes up a large % of your time when raiding. Other MMOs does not do this. He just wants to die, release and be infront of the boss to go again.

    he never talked about open world content removal or whatever. No idea what you reffer to Clutter reffers to the fact the game is old with a lot of systems that does not benefit you, and scares away new players. Especially also holds back people wanting to try say PvP. He thinks say skill cieling is way to high in PvP, which I agree with. PvP in wow is not friendly for new players.

    Also he highly dislikes addons which I major disagree with. He wants all addons banned and then Blizzard should work addons into the game (Which they wont) and raids should not be tuned around weakauras etc.
    Last edited by Djuntas; 2024-04-17 at 01:00 PM.
    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/djuntas ARPG - RTS - MMO

  4. #324
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Hes just rusty and out of the loop. Ive seen him playing other games where he seems good I dont play mythic+ myself, which sadly has become the only end-game in WoW that really matters. Asmongold specificly talked about him not enjoying scaleable content be it rifts in Diablo 3 or this mythic+ system. In fact he has said he liked legion mythic+ the most.

    But a dude with parses like this in legion is not a bad player: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/charact...one=17#zone=10

    And yes I know parses can be cheesed, he talked about that as well, but you cant cheese such numbers all the time. I did parse a bit on my warlock back in naxx25 in wotlkc, and yes sometimes it was luck, but other times it was good play with slight luck.
    Oh yeah of course he is rusty. But that is not how that works. If he actually tried again, he would not be pulling 90 parses like he did, he has shown that for when he does actually try, he has still fallen, which is understandable, hes older, hes lost his reflexes, it happens to all of us.

    But just cause he was good in legion, does not make him the next coming of christ, his ideas are flawed and his opinion is stupid. Yes he has good points, I still love his content, but if blizz did what he wanted them to do, the game would fucking die.

    Also imagine trying to brag about parsing in naxx in wotlk, bro that raid was fucking PATEHTIC is was hilariously easy, you could do it in leveling greens, parsing was even easier, ESPECIALLY as warlock, as they were like dk's fucking bonkers at launch, their pet scaling and crit calculations were mad fucked.

    Also I am confused, you say he enjoyed legion M+ the most... When it is the same M+ we have now, it also infinitly scaled, what are you on about?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    First of all, sub numbers were public back in WOD. Also look up sales figures for WOD and shadowlands. You can see Belluar or other sources for current speculated sub numbers and raiding activity that is gotten through 3rd party websites. Activity is very low, but look it up if you want to. Dont take my words for it.


    Asmongold talks about all the time-wasting mechanics of retail wow vs other mmos like final fantasy 14 or however its spelled. He dislikes re-buffing, summoning ppl, relying on warlocks, consums and all that fluff that takes up a large % of your time when raiding. Other MMOs does not do this. He just wants to die, release and be infront of the boss to go again.

    he never talked about open world content removal or whatever. No idea what you reffer to Clutter reffers to the fact the game is old with a lot of systems that does not benefit you, and scares away new players. Especially also holds back people wanting to try say PvP. He thinks say skill cieling is way to high in PvP, which I agree with. PvP in wow is not friendly for new players.

    Also he highly dislikes addons which I major disagree with. He wants all addons banned and then Blizzard should work addons into the game (Which they wont) and raids should not be tuned around weakauras etc.
    Yes, sub numbers were public, and wods's sub numbers were fucking AWFUL.
    "Look up sales figures for wod and shadowlands" ok... and? By that logic those expansions were better then wrath of the lich king, you really gunna try to sit here and say WoD and Shadowlands were better then WotLK? Bro come the fuck on.

    "Activity is very low" no, no it is not, did you even watch the video? Bellular literally talks about how high numbers are, that season 3 of dragonflight has been VERY impressive.

    Look at how insane those M+ numbers are for season 3, That is insane that it is still keeping at such a large number. 20 weeks in and we still have 800,000 keys ran a week, ones that are recorded, which means they have to be COMPLETED, and over I thin kit is M+ 5?(timed)

    "Other mmo's do not do this"
    Ok what mmos?
    Please tell me what MMO's dont have buffs, dont have consumes, and the fact you want to remove all of this class fantasy to homogonize everything to make raiding simple is just sad. Ok yeah lets kill alchemy, lets kill cooking, lets kill fishing. Lets kill warlocks, mages, every single class utility in the game, so we can have "raid fight simulator"

    "He just wants to die, release, and be infront of the boss and go again" thats fucking stupid, and its boring, no thanks.

    "He never talked about open world content removal" Yes, he has many times, he has the opinion open world content is a waste as it becomes pointless right away, and has no prestiege, so it should be removed.

    "No idea what you reffer to Clutter reffers to the fact the game is old with a lot of systems that does not benefit you, and scares away new players"
    https://youtu.be/8xAn-oy7co4?si=A2pg_I1u_r5n9VHd&t=535 (Literally him talking about this, with timestamp, bro, you praise him so much but don't even know his opinions.)
    No, that is not what he is talking about, He is talking about transmogs, mounts, toys and stuff, he says there is too many mounts, transmogs, etc in the game, and it makes it feel less special, and "scares new players" and therefore should be deleted.
    Ah yes, lets delete all the collectibles in the game, because new players may be scared by... too many options and things they can collect. Yep, totally great idea.

    https://youtu.be/8xAn-oy7co4?si=DB3hjIUNvT2HOHdA&t=350

    bro literally thinks there is too many spells in the game even, and each class should only have a couple spells, like in vanilla.
    Ah yes I would fucking love to go back to just spamming shadowbolt, so smart asmon.

    I mean asmon thinks classic is peak, and anything since then has just been a downgrade. He does not want retail, he wants classic. End of.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2024-04-17 at 01:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Remove combat, Mobs, PvP, and Difficult Content

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisuke411 View Post
    I'd argue the game in its current state is hardly more healthy than MoP-WoD era. It might have had boosts from Classic, SoD, or otherwise in the more recent era, but Dragonflight is a far cry from WotLK in terms of setting, theme, story, features, class design, and even class balance. I think the only things that have legitimately improved are solo content, alt management, and simple QoL things that one expects from a modern MMO, not just the market frontrunner. Even the music in the TBC-WotLK-Cata era was better, though that is a far more subjective metric than any of the others I mentioned.
    Sounds closer to my line of thought.
    Although it seems to me Blizz may realize that DF was a bust and is relying on outlying quickies to keep the subscriber paying. Blunderstorm, and now "remixes" in lieu of any substantial patch to the expansion.

  6. #326
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Sounds closer to my line of thought.
    Although it seems to me Blizz may realize that DF was a bust and is relying on outlying quickies to keep the subscriber paying. Blunderstorm, and now "remixes" in lieu of any substantial patch to the expansion.
    "Df is a bust" lolololol cope harder mate.
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Remove combat, Mobs, PvP, and Difficult Content

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Oh yeah of course he is rusty. But that is not how that works. If he actually tried again, he would not be pulling 90 parses like he did, he has shown that for when he does actually try, he has still fallen, which is understandable, hes older, hes lost his reflexes, it happens to all of us.

    But just cause he was good in legion, does not make him the next coming of christ, his ideas are flawed and his opinion is stupid. Yes he has good points, I still love his content, but if blizz did what he wanted them to do, the game would fucking die.

    Also imagine trying to brag about parsing in naxx in wotlk, bro that raid was fucking PATEHTIC is was hilariously easy, you could do it in leveling greens, parsing was even easier, ESPECIALLY as warlock, as they were like dk's fucking bonkers at launch, their pet scaling and crit calculations were mad fucked.

    Also I am confused, you say he enjoyed legion M+ the most... When it is the same M+ we have now, it also infinitly scaled, what are you on about?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes, sub numbers were public, and wods's sub numbers were fucking AWFUL.
    "Look up sales figures for wod and shadowlands" ok... and? By that logic those expansions were better then wrath of the lich king, you really gunna try to sit here and say WoD and Shadowlands were better then WotLK? Bro come the fuck on.

    "Activity is very low" no, no it is not, did you even watch the video? Bellular literally talks about how high numbers are, that season 3 of dragonflight has been VERY impressive.

    Look at how insane those M+ numbers are for season 3, That is insane that it is still keeping at such a large number. 20 weeks in and we still have 800,000 keys ran a week, ones that are recorded, which means they have to be COMPLETED, and over I thin kit is M+ 5?(timed)

    "Other mmo's do not do this"
    Ok what mmos?
    Please tell me what MMO's dont have buffs, dont have consumes, and the fact you want to remove all of this class fantasy to homogonize everything to make raiding simple is just sad. Ok yeah lets kill alchemy, lets kill cooking, lets kill fishing. Lets kill warlocks, mages, every single class utility in the game, so we can have "raid fight simulator"

    "He just wants to die, release, and be infront of the boss and go again" thats fucking stupid, and its boring, no thanks.

    "He never talked about open world content removal" Yes, he has many times, he has the opinion open world content is a waste as it becomes pointless right away, and has no prestiege, so it should be removed.

    "No idea what you reffer to Clutter reffers to the fact the game is old with a lot of systems that does not benefit you, and scares away new players"
    https://youtu.be/8xAn-oy7co4?si=A2pg_I1u_r5n9VHd&t=535 (Literally him talking about this, with timestamp, bro, you praise him so much but don't even know his opinions.)
    No, that is not what he is talking about, He is talking about transmogs, mounts, toys and stuff, he says there is too many mounts, transmogs, etc in the game, and it makes it feel less special, and "scares new players" and therefore should be deleted.
    Ah yes, lets delete all the collectibles in the game, because new players may be scared by... too many options and things they can collect. Yep, totally great idea.

    https://youtu.be/8xAn-oy7co4?si=DB3hjIUNvT2HOHdA&t=350

    bro literally thinks there is too many spells in the game even, and each class should only have a couple spells, like in vanilla.
    Ah yes I would fucking love to go back to just spamming shadowbolt, so smart asmon.

    I mean asmon thinks classic is peak, and anything since then has just been a downgrade. He does not want retail, he wants classic. End of.
    You might not think that he could do come back to wow and play at similar levels again. Maybe he could not. But you're not gonna tell me he aint good at wow, even today.

    I mentioned naxx parsing because thats my only example. I dont raid much anymore, and when I did raid in classic or TBC I was tanking, thats my prefferd role But I did play a warlock when wotlkc was new, and Im just stating how I observed parsing. Also warlock being "OP" or whatever means there was just more competition. So many people playing warlock or DK at launch. But whatever.

    I mention that Asmongold liked legion mythic+ the most, just as an example. I dont know major differences myself. So hes not hating with no substance here, hes saying what he liked in the past.

    Did you see my edit before you qouted? " Edit: I should say right now mythic+ numbers are up, but I more think thats due to newer/easier entry to barrier. And fact that mythic+ is to important for progress for average solo players."

    If the only progress casual people can do to progress that of course means more people gonna do that. I know for myself the only time I bothered to do a +15 key was end of BFA due to insane corruption fun (It was super fun tbh) and freehold being easy. I imagine for many people DF is that time now, where they feel they can manage keys.

    I dont understand why you think time wasting mechanics are fun. I mean in classic wow is a 1500 yards corpserun fun? Well some argue it makes death hurt more. I say its not fun at least. And same for so many other things. I mean blizzard added tons of graveyards and so on later. Final Fantasy part, read that in the OP

    I have seen that video when he did it, and you have different opinions what open world content is. But he does not mention content, more reward structure that are revolving around bland cosmetics. And I say that as somebody who did collect all that stuff. Well I never collected transmog, but even damn cooking or LW recipes I did. In fact I have all LW recipes in the game minus I think 1 from vanilla, and maybe few more. Have done nothing since SL however. But we all know how shitty it is that open world content gives no real rewards but mounts as a carrot, rather than turning such content into long term progression systems for casual people.

    Its fine you dont understand what he means, but you outright spinning wrong naratives is...He never wanted to make WoW into a damn moba or some. Clutter is not good, and modern game design never caught up to WoW. This is especially obvious in PvP where every class has 5 stuns and 5 heals. Back in BFA it was especially terrible. Say on a druid: You fire a moonfire, and 10 things happens in the background of calculations, procs, talents, azerite and essences. Keep it simple. I like when my actions feels meaty (spelled?), such as pushing Mortal Strike on a warrior in classic and you feel you pushed a button.
    Last edited by Djuntas; 2024-04-17 at 05:12 PM.
    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/djuntas ARPG - RTS - MMO

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    How do we know retail wow is doing well? The analytics. Which show M+ still has record high numbers, as does raiding.
    Raiding has record high numbers? Certainly not on wowprogress.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

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