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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    2 out of 3 tier set bonuses we have had this expansion have "promoted other spells". Absolutely nothing wrong with one focused on a major talent in the tree that everyone takes anyway.
    Well yes their is something wrong with it. For all that talk of build diversity it doesnt seem to exist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    You damn well know this isn't what people wanted lmao. Basic AoE functionality has never been gated behind talents before DF.

    To be clear, I overall really like the talents but there are some outliers that should definitely change, such as Fury AoE - just make the talent that makes the next 4 hits cleave rather than 2 the only talent and the other one baseline.
    Arms is also bad for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Pete View Post
    And you dont want to press grove guardians because...?
    because i prefer to play my choice and not be punished for it

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Can't say he doesn't have a point though, talents that are meant to be choices become must-picks because of how (many, not all) DF tier sets have worked. If you don't like those talents you're kind of fucked.

    Enough to change the tier set design? Not necessarily, but it's understandable that it feels bad.
    But his point becomes moot when he is known to be a Blizzard hater so he is not doing this post because he has a point, but because he just wants to come out as "Blizzard bad".

    Its like the boy who cried wolf, i dont care what these posters say, when 99% of their posts are incoherent dribble.

    And no, he has a point about the illusion of choice complaint which was already well known years ago that its gonna be like this therefor he does not really have a point.

    Its a theme park game based on gear chase, expecting anything else, you are simply delusional, and considering this discussion and 5000 posts about this the last 15 years, you would realize some people would have moved on by now, or became decent WoW players.

    So does he really have a point when this was known 2 years ago thats its gonna be like this?

    Or with the previous talents? And the talents before then? Or hell, cookie cutter builds in Vanilla, back in 2005?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    But his point becomes moot when he is known to be a Blizzard hater so he is not doing this post because he has a point, but because he just wants to come out as "Blizzard bad".

    Its like the boy who cried wolf, i dont care what these posters say, when 99% of their posts are incoherent dribble.
    If you don't care what he says even when you KNOW he's right, that proves that it's not about him being a Blizzard hater but you being a Blizzard defender. Not saying he isn't (I don't care), but if you dismiss a correct point for no reason at all, you're no better.
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    And no, he has a point about the illusion of choice complaint which was already well known years ago that its gonna be like this therefor he does not really have a point.
    A complaint becomes irrelevant just because it's been like this for a while? What kind of argument is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Its a theme park game based on gear chase, expecting anything else, you are simply delusional, and considering this discussion and 5000 posts about this the last 15 years, you would realize some people would have moved on by now, or became decent WoW players.

    So does he really have a point when this was known 2 years ago thats its gonna be like this?
    What the fuck are you even talking about here? How does this relate?

    And yes, something being established doesn't mean you can't complain about it anymore. That's just incomprehensibly stupid to suggest.
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Or with the previous talents? And the talents before then? Or hell, cookie cutter builds in Vanilla, back in 2005?
    Previous talents didn't gatekeep AoE, nor did they do much of anything honestly. Talents never have done that before DF. The DF talents are great, but they have issues too obviously, and this is one of them.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Well yes their is something wrong with it. For all that talk of build diversity it doesnt seem to exist
    There's heaps of build diversity, my Raid builds and M+ builds are radically different, requiring different playstyles and different cooldowns. Both of them take Grove Guardians, sure, but both also take Nature's Swiftness and Efflorescence, but I don't hear you bitching about those.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    People were vocally demanding meaningful talent choices instead of one build being able to do it all.
    Aaaand then we have beastmaster hunter, marksman hunter, demon hunter, warlocks of both flavors. I guess only certain classes are second class citizens that have to talent for single target OR aoe.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    There's heaps of build diversity, my Raid builds and M+ builds are radically different.
    The fact that you need to play 2 seperate builds to accomplish 2 seperate tasks is not in and of itself reflective of build diversity particulalry if theirs clear cut winners for those talent choices.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    The fact that you need to play 2 seperate builds to accomplish 2 seperate tasks is not in and of itself reflective of build diversity particulalry if theirs clear cut winners for those talent choices.
    It's almost like I said Raid buildS and M+ buildS, indicating I have multiple builds in each scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    It's almost like I said Raid buildS and M+ buildS, indicating I have multiple builds in each scenario.
    Thats not necessarily implied in what you wrote. Pluralized "builds" could merely indicate you simple had two builds one for each type of content.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    People were vocally demanding meaningful talent choices instead of one build being able to do it all.
    But these aren't meaningful talent choices.

    For example, the choice between scatter shot and binding shot is a meaningful, interesting decision. Both are useful control abilities. I would like to have both but I personally prefer Scatter Shot.

    In comparison the choice between Wild Instincts and Blood Frenzy is simply "are you AoE or Single Target."

    I feel like for most classes the generic class side of the tree is done really well, but the spec side just boils down to AoE or ST and that isn't a meaningful, interesting decision.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    because i prefer to play my choice and not be punished for it
    How are you punished?
    This is how the game has always worked, one choice is usually better than another choice.
    You just gotta suck it up and get used to it.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoic Pete View Post
    How are you punished?
    This is how the game has always worked, one choice is usually better than another choice.
    You just gotta suck it up and get used to it.
    Even if one accepts this it still begs the question why they felt the need to double down on it with tier bonus...

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious Leader View Post
    Even if one accepts this it still begs the question why they felt the need to double down on it with tier bonus...
    As far as I know people got to vote what tier-set bonus they wanted, and this one won so.
    They obviously cannot please everyone with that decision.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    sure but wrath talents werent like this,you had acces to everything,and you had room for some tinkering,but mostly pvp related stuff or very niche situation stuff,what we have now is ridiculous,i get having talents that give you stronger aoe,but to have ZERO as a baseline?
    Did we play the same expansion? Once you played 'high' level of raiding you pretty much did not touch the talent tree at all, I remember on my MM hunter I had the same talent build for months

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    Did we play the same expansion? Once you played 'high' level of raiding you pretty much did not touch the talent tree at all, I remember on my MM hunter I had the same talent build for months
    huh? yeah,in wrath you pretty much always used the same talents,maybe another version for pvp for the same spec

    also,current tree has like 10 abilities,wrath had like 3

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