Remix and Classic and Retail; should they be combined; should they be the same realm

[epigramx]

Because Classic WoW plays on a completely different set of rules than Remix and retail: different class design, different talents, different racials, different UI, different game mechanics, different balancing, etc.

Sure, but I already covered a better design. Remix can be expanded to have ALSO an alternative version that is more Classic-like; the game engine is almost the same nowadays anyway; it's not like they really use the old game engines so it's really not "truly classic" technologically (so it's mainly a matter of gameplay choice when they design).

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I mostly don't understand what your stated value prop is. The remix is basically the live client with certain restrictions and gear that makes everything all wacky.
It sounds like you're suggesting a "live client" with a TON more modifications to turn classes, talents, abilities, mobs, zones, rulesets etc. into the classic (all xpac versions), sod, hc versions of it depending on the kind of character you log in to.
I can't begin to wrap my head around how that would work as opposed to simply having a separate client for all that which just so happens to already exist.

No reason to overcomplicate it. Remix can just be expanded to have an alternative version (in addition to current Remix) that is more "Classic like". It's not that different technologically under the hood; the game engine of current Classic is not the original client anymore anyway; for the most part it's a gameplay choice at design and not a requirement.

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remix is furthest from classic experience

Yeah but that's a another topic (so it's effectively a strawman). I do not suggest to only have 1 Remix; I said to have 2 Remixes; 1 of them would be more "Classic like". I didn't even change a stance on later replies (which would be still legitimate (people are allowed to change opinion)) because on the original post I said "Remixes"(plural) and not Remix (but sure I expanded on that more clearly on the later replies in the topic (on having additional alternative Remixes)).

edit: PS I added a clarification on the original post, that covers that very clearly, because it's not your responsibility I wasn't clearer on it.

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Remix works on retail realms because its a limited event and characters will become normal retail characters afterwards. The characters are just retail characters with borrowed power, they use all the same current tuning and abilities of retail.

How in your imagination you think this could work with permanent classic characters is beyond me.

Easy to have a 2nd Remix that does that. "This Remix-2 character can not enter the future world" the end done. Technologically it's not a huge deal either but gameplay-design-wise it's as easy as that.

[Ereb]

With no word I said anything about Difficulty, if you dont get what I said, sadly, I dont think you get the actual difference between Classic and Remix.

This thread's existence is proof enough OP doesn't understand the actual differences between classic and remix/retail.

[epigramx]

This thread's existence is proof enough OP doesn't understand the actual differences between classic and remix/retail.

Read the additional clarification on the OP text (and on later replies). I accept the responsibility that I should had been more clearer from the start,
Remix can have an ADDITIONAL alternative version; that version would be approximately identical to current Classic; e.g. characters can't go to the future world.

[kranur]

The only thing they should do is consolidate the clients into a single one, at least at the UI level, like after you log in, you choose what version to play/download (so you don't get shoved a 120gb client for classic era).
And maybe since classic is now at a version with account wide achievements/collections, make these get imported to retail too, but not vice versa obviously.
Having a character be playable on all versions will be messy as hell and will likely cause an implosion, maybe even open a small black hole.

[Throwme]

I accept the responsibility that I should had been more clearer from the start

Is this the first time this has happened to one of your threads?

[Geckoo]

The thing is that remix has never been intended to be a semi-original pandaria experience. It has always been just a different way to play retail with pandaria as the background theme. That's why you are playing the same game, with the same classes, talents and even the same UI and graphic options.

But classic, any version of it, it is actually a completely different game, even Cataclysm. The fact that is not a 100% like the original game or that it has been changed over time is not relevant, because it is still very far from retail. This means that a single client would need to have everything from all those versions + retail.

So it's simply more efficient for everyone to have different clients for different games. If you want to play classic you get the classic client, you want to play cata? you get the cata client... etc.

Now, a different thing is wanting a remix version of classic where you simply add the old world data to the retail client and let people level a toon with modern graphics and outdated quest design, but i honestly don't see the point on that.

[Ielenia]

Sure, but I already covered a better design. Remix can be expanded to have ALSO an alternative version that is more Classic-like; the game engine is almost the same nowadays anyway; it's not like they really use the old game engines so it's really not "truly classic" technologically (so it's mainly a matter of gameplay choice when they design).

That's not how it works, though. Just because both operate on the same game engine doesn't mean both are compatible. I'll repeat: Classic WoW operates on a whole different slew of rules that are simply incompatible with retail WoW. This isn't a case of "just make it fit". You really have no idea what you're talking about, here.

[FelPlague]

So you want classic wow Remix?

[epigramx]

Is this the first time this has happened to one of your threads?

No. I have repeatedly improved myself, because I'm not a narcissist with the delusion they are always right.

[Lady Atia]

So you want classic wow Remix?

Tbf I could see them adding remix: vanilla for the anniversery event this year, basically taking season of discovery with modern classes but on the retail client with (new) retail chars and the option to actually collect stuff for your retail collections. If not this time (because of the new expansion release at the same time basically) they still could do it next year when SoD is no longer fresh, I guess.

[ArenaDk]

Who cares? They already destroyed half the prestige anyways, so they should just give us everything (or nothing). I'm actually expecting old gladiator mounts farmable via casual rated pvp within the next 5 years.

Wont happen aslong as Ion is game lead. He likes his prestige so much he gave himself a reworked model of his scarab

but tbh. All old glad mounts should have a recolour version farmable 2 expansions after their release

[Lady Atia]

Wont happen aslong as Ion is game lead. He likes his prestige so much he gave himself a reworked model of his scarab

but tbh. All old glad mounts should have a recolour version farmable 2 expansions after their release

Yeah well I'm defo in the camp that glad mounts *should* be buyable 2 expansions later via a vic saddle (or maybe 3 saddles per gladiator mount in order to make them more rare). Or just give us a seasonal pvp renown with one "old gladiator" token on it's track every season, that would still be 37+ mounts to catch up by now, which is a looong time investment if you make it char specific, and basically "un-catchable" if you limit the track to once per warband (which would be the more modern approach) per season.

Right now we are in this weird in-between phase of them destroying some prestige but not all, while also still not bringing pve rewards on par with pvp fomo (or, which again would be the healthier way, bringing pvp fomo down to the level of pve fomo).

[ArenaDk]

Yeah well I'm defo in the camp that glad mounts *should* be buyable 2 expansions later via a vic saddle (or maybe 3 saddles per gladiator mount in order to make them more rare). Or just give us a seasonal pvp renown with one "old gladiator" token on it's track every season, that would still be 37+ mounts to catch up by now, which is a looong time investment if you make it char specific, and basically "un-catchable" if you limit the track to once per warband (which would be the more modern approach) per season.

Right now we are in this weird in-between phase of them destroying some prestige but not all, while also still not bringing pve rewards on par with pvp fomo (or, which again would be the healthier way, bringing pvp fomo down to the level of pve fomo).

Its a difficult position right now. And i wouldnt call high end rewards fomo, thats kinda stupid. Fomo is something everyone can get but forces people to play to not miss out, like the 500€ ahri skin etc. but not rewards dor 1%

Currently the only locked pvp items are : Elite sets + glad mounts + rank 1 titles

locked pve items : ashbringer , atish and multiple removed mounts like plague proto, zulian tiger etc. and the scarablord + challenge mounts ( pdok) , challengemode items

all pve drop mounts , atish should be brought back there was never skill involved and all the prestige is from playing a few years ago and being lucky.

scarablord not sure how to handle as it wasnt luck but basically being voted by your guild to get it , however thanks to woltk abuse it kinda could come back as people already cheated to get it

now the challengemode , elite , glad mounts , pdok mount etc. were all skill rewards not only playing early and being lucky, so recolours is the only fair way , but not just selling them as they were mile stones rewards.

rank 1 titles + server first titles should never come back in any way or form

[SinR]

I would love to see Classic Era Remix, bringing back the removed content, possibly even the old instance layouts (ST, WC, etc) but that's too much effort for Blizzard.

On Topic: Classic exists as a way to play that content as it was played at the time

[Lady Atia]

I would love to see Classic Era Remix, bringing back the removed content, possibly even the old instance layouts (ST, WC, etc) but that's too much effort for Blizzard.

On Topic: Classic exists as a way to play that content as it was played at the time

Yeah but the thing is, they could easily use SoD as a base for a classic remix, we would have new level up raids that can be made available via lfr and for max level content we have the classic raids on top. With only one difficulty they could easily make it a shorter event compared to MoP rn without any issues aswell. Graphics shouldn't be an issue anymore if they use the 4k HD packs we got with cata aswell (or they even use it as nostalgia bate similiar to diablo's anniversery were you could play d1 inside of d3).

The only problem I see is that it would be too soon after SoD, but same could be said about MoP Remix and MoP classic aswell.

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Its a difficult position right now. And i wouldnt call high end rewards fomo, thats kinda stupid. Fomo is something everyone can get but forces people to play to not miss out, like the 500€ ahri skin etc. but not rewards dor 1%

Currently the only locked pvp items are : Elite sets + glad mounts + rank 1 titles

locked pve items : ashbringer , atish and multiple removed mounts like plague proto, zulian tiger etc. and the scarablord + challenge mounts ( pdok) , challengemode items

all pve drop mounts , atish should be brought back there was never skill involved and all the prestige is from playing a few years ago and being lucky.

scarablord not sure how to handle as it wasnt luck but basically being voted by your guild to get it , however thanks to woltk abuse it kinda could come back as people already cheated to get it

now the challengemode , elite , glad mounts , pdok mount etc. were all skill rewards not only playing early and being lucky, so recolours is the only fair way , but not just selling them as they were mile stones rewards.

rank 1 titles + server first titles should never come back in any way or form

The thing is, FOMO that EVERYONE can get is actually good fomo - fomo that's limited to 1%, especially stuff that's gated behind pvp is bad because that's what creates the "fear of missing out", that you don't know for sure that you can get these rewards even if you would try it, on top of the time-limited aspect, which is just flat out bad.

I for sure would enjoy rated pvp far more if rewards would be moved to a seasonal reward track instead of rating, which is something all other good mmo's these days have done afaik (atleast for SWTOR I know they changed pvp rewards from rating to a reward track).

Imo it's good if a mmo rewards loyal players for playing it every month, that's why the trading post is great. But time-limited skill based fomo isn't healthy at all. And pve doesn't really have that atm, since everyone can easily get KSM and mythic rewards aren't limited to one season only.

[epigramx]

Unless you have indepth Experience in Programming and WoW Sourecode

you dont get what I said

isn't a case of "just make it fit"

different source code

TON more modifications

In all these replies you seem to imply you hold the keys of Programming knowledge on some kind of sacred unobtainable goal.
This is a multibillion multinational gaming corporation; it would be embarrassing if they can't have in the same client the game mechanics of a game of the early 2000s; it should be a project that barely takes 1 or 2 months to complete.

And in case you're directly involved with the game your self: it's not looking favorable for you admitting incapability to do such a task; this is a task that indie companies should struggle with (not Blizzard/Microsoft).

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PS The fact there's no true reproducibility of the original gameplay/experience on current Classic makes the task even easier.
If they already don't care to have 100% of the original gameplay: why should they care of minor glitches/differences?

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And that assuming the process even introduces glitches (they have the resources to avoid them).

[LanToaster]

In all these replies you seem to imply you hold the keys of Programming knowledge on some kind of sacred unobtainable goal.

No, I say and imply that YOU specifically dont have any kind of Programming knowledge. And YOU specifically cannot Judge the Practicality or Feasibility of Merging Classic and Retail into one Client.
And YOU Specifically cannot judge how different or same the Clients are on a Technical Standpoint.

I for one, would not want my Client to have unnecessary Classic Assets, because I dont play Classic.

This is a multibillion multinational gaming corporation

Blizzards Economic Position has absolutely no bearing on what I said. Reread what I said.

it would be embarrassing if they can't have in the same client.

I dont think anyone here doubts the Ability of punching the Clients together, we doubt the practicality.

And in case you're directly involved with the game your self: it's not looking favorable for you admitting incapability to do such a task; this is a task that indie companies should struggle with (not Blizzard/Microsoft).

Yea, just throw Money at the PC, it Fixes all the Problems.

Also, I doubt any Indi Developer would be Stupid enough to put two different Games that are not meant to Interact with each other onto the same Client.

And that assuming the process even introduces glitches (they have the resources to avoid them).

Yea, just throw Money at the PC, and it Fixes all the Problems.

[Ielenia]

In all these replies you seem to imply you hold the keys of Programming knowledge on some kind of sacred unobtainable goal.

The projection here is amazing. You here are saying that what you can can easily be made just because those two games run on the same engine. The fact of the matter is that, yes, we do apparently know more about programming than you seemingly do, considering your insistence here.

This is a multibillion multinational gaming corporation; it would be embarrassing if they can't have in the same client the game mechanics of a game of the early 2000s; it should be a project that barely takes 1 or 2 months to complete.

And here you evidence your lack of programming knowledge even harder. Not to mention having more money does not mean projects are completed faster

And in case you're directly involved with the game your self: it's not looking favorable for you admitting incapability to do such a task;

Which I never said. I'm simply pointing out the fact that this is not a worthwhile endeavor. You simply don't know what it takes to make what you want. Simple as that.

PS The fact there's no true reproducibility of the original gameplay/experience on current Classic makes the task even easier.
If they already don't care to have 100% of the original gameplay: why should they care of minor glitches/differences?

We're not talking about glitches here. And also, while there are minor differences, Classic is still Classic: talent trees, story arcs, class design, class balance, etc.

And that assuming the process even introduces glitches (they have the resources to avoid them).

And now you evidence your lack of programming knowledge even more.

[epigramx]

YOU specifically dont have any kind of Programming knowledge

projection

One of my favorite fallacies found on gaming fora is the "projection projection"; people having no clue who someone else is; they proceed talking as if they have secret cameras in their house; as if they have hacked the government servers; as if they know their age and credentials and occupation.

Dudes you have absolutely no clue who I am; you have no clue what I know about programming; I'm not even going to try to convince you about myself because that's pointless and it falls into the same trap you have fallen.

The point here is that you came to a gaming forum to announce that you hold the keys to Programming Knowledge and that it's impossible to have Vanilla gameplay in the modern client; I repeat: if you were working for Blizzard that would be a VERY embarrassing statement; this is a multinational and multibillion corporation and if they can't achieve that task then they should just quit.

[FelPlague]

This is a multibillion multinational gaming corporation; it would be embarrassing if they can't have in the same client the game mechanics of a game of the early 2000s; it should be a project that barely takes 1 or 2 months to complete.

They can, but why waste time and money to do so?
Like seriously what is the fucking point? Why spend so much time and effort to compile them?
nevermind the fact the classic players would be OUTRAGED that they are forced to download like 200 gigs worth of game when they only wanna play their like 12 gig classic wow.

not everything needs to be compiled, nor is there literally any reason for them to do so.