How many people actually like affixes?

[Thrillhouse918]

I understand that blizzard wants to broaden the meta for keys, but having weeks where certain damage types are increased against certain mobs only pigeon holes classes for those weeks. Fire and Frost? Guess you're brining a mage, destro lock or frost dk. Shadow? Welp, SPriest it is. Bleeds? Hello ferals and rogues.

Blizz needs to rethink affixes. With the seasonal rotation of dungeons we're not locked into 8 dungeons for two years and they need to spice things up. I'd rather see them drop Tyr and Fort and bring in a seasonal affix for each rotation and use that seasonal affix to help guide which dungeons are in each pool.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I think people mistake the point in affixes. They aren't necessarily there to increase the difficulty per se, they mostly exist to add variety so the content is more repeatable.

There are other possible ways to do that. The S2-3-4 SL seasonals would add great variety if we rotated through those each week (as a random example), which is what matters to most players.

Having existing affixes is definitely better than having nothing because each week feels different. I just wish they would invest serious resources into cooking up something truly unique and fresh rather than these weird new ones that seem poorly thought out

[Rageonit]

I understand that blizzard wants to broaden the meta for keys, but having weeks where certain damage types are increased against certain mobs only pigeon holes classes for those weeks. Fire and Frost? Guess you're brining a mage, destro lock or frost dk. Shadow? Welp, SPriest it is. Bleeds? Hello ferals and rogues.

First of all, you're grossly overstimating the impact of this buff. It's 10% to a specific damage type, and only to ~half the mobs in the dungeon. Best case scenario, how much more damage that is? Even if 100% of your damage is the buffed damage type, it's in total less than ~5%? (As it won't affect half of the mobs and the bosses).

Do you think this will be enough to lock any classes to certain weeks? That would imply that the specs are balanced enough for this damage to make noticeable difference. Do you honestly see this happening...?

[Ashana Darkmoon]

This reaction is kinda the point to why these are dumb lol. It's maybe a 3% increase for one person with that damage in a dungeon. That is irrelevant to 99.9% of keys, especially if dungeon tuning is even close to now, where dps doesn't matter. Yet people read that and are already freaking out about it because everyone has been trained to optimize to the point of stupidity.

[Thrillhouse918]

First of all, you're grossly overstimating the impact of this buff. It's 10% to a specific damage type, and only to ~half the mobs in the dungeon. Best case scenario, how much more damage that is? Even if 100% of your damage is the buffed damage type, it's in total less than ~5%? (As it won't affect half of the mobs and the bosses).

Do you think this will be enough to lock any classes to certain weeks? That would imply that the specs are balanced enough for this damage to make noticeable difference. Do you honestly see this happening...?

We already see a locked in meta without a buff to damage against certain mobs. You think this isn't going to affect comps? C'mon bro.

[Rageonit]

We already see a locked in meta without a buff to damage against certain mobs. You think this isn't going to affect comps? C'mon bro.

So what's your argument exactly? That there are people now who blindly follow meta, and in TWW there will also be people who blindly follow meta? What's exactly new?
Focus on the important part: the damage buff is negligible. And fear not, the sky is not falling. You will still be able to run m+.

(Oh, and FYI, the meta won't be decided by this buff.)

[Tziva]

Moved this to the correct forum.

Although there are many individual affixes I don't like/didn't like, I do prefer having affixes. They keep things interesting from week to week and have the potential to add an extra level of challenge each week.

That said:

They need to deal with the issue of affixes that fall almost entirely on particular specs or roles in a team. The most obviously way to address this would be that every affix -- unless it's something super simple -- should have multiple ways to that a group can choose to deal with them. A affix that can be dispelled or healed is still falling almost entirely on the healer, so it should be something like the affix can be dispelled or killed or CCed, etc. While I don't think they should make even affixes that require teams to use a specific utility that not all specs have access to, but if they are going to, then the keymaster needs to allow for players to request an item that offers that utility temporarily for classes that can't already do it. For example, if an affix needs hard CCed, warriors should be able to pick up some kind of sleep wand so the mage in the party isn't stuck doing absolutely everything themselves. Those affixes that end up being primarily one player's responsibility, or that discourage teams from bringing certain classes isn't fun, especially if you're the guy shouldering the burden or sitting the bench. That's been the biggest problem with a lot of recent affixes, and adding more in this vein isn't a good idea.

And lastly, Fort/Tyr really need to go. I get that they are simple, low-effort affixes for Blizzard to add without having to worry about dungeon design, but they just make some dungeons an absolute slog on some weeks. Tyrannical is a special misery where bosses take for fucking ever but not because they have some kind of compelling new mechanic but just because you have to keep doing more of the same through a shitton more health points. Throw both in the bin, and just tune everything slightly harder or make the timer slightly tight in place. They're not fun, not interesting, not a compelling challenge.

[Relapses]

"Remove them" being an option is going to inevitably win any poll like this because people are instinctively going to want less friction in their keys. And while this option will have widespread support, the reality is that an Affix-less M+ will be significantly more boring than what we have now. Players will tap out very early in the season and participation numbers deep into an expansion will be non existent. This is not the way.

That doesn't mean the way they work right now is the way either. I think passive effects which require small amounts of cognizance are generally fine but the stuff which requires you to route entire dungeons differently should be avoided. I'm also fine with kiss/curse as long as the kiss doesn't unfairly favor certain classes (as the current iteration does). Either that or, if they ~need~ to have class specific buffs, make it more clear which classes get buffed instead of vague magic school damage amps.

[Twdft]

Do you think this will be enough to lock any classes to certain weeks? That would imply that the specs are balanced enough for this damage to make noticeable difference. Do you honestly see this happening...?

Sometimes feelings do matter.

Although the vulnerabilities won't make or break 99.9% of keys run community perception still has an influence of group composition in PuGLand. People will wait ten minutes for the "right" class no matter if they could already been halfway through their +8 dungeon by picking anyone qualified. Just as some today won't go without Heroism even though you could pop a 2g drum and time it anyway. This will lead to players playing the "wrong" class take longer to get into groups, or get frustrated when it takes too long. It will happen, it will feel bad, it is unnecessary.

[Rageonit]

Sometimes feelings do matter.

Although the vulnerabilities won't make or break 99.9% of keys run community perception still has an influence of group composition in PuGLand. People will wait ten minutes for the "right" class no matter if they could already been halfway through their +8 dungeon by picking anyone qualified. Just as some today won't go without Heroism even though you could pop a 2g drum and time it anyway. This will lead to players playing the "wrong" class take longer to get into groups, or get frustrated when it takes too long. It will happen, it will feel bad, it is unnecessary.

It's funny, because here's a thread full of people afraid that they won't get invited tu PUGs because of the so called "community" - like you've all forgot that you are the actual community. Maybe it's your mindset that has to change? If you think buffs like this shouldn't dictate who gets an invite, stop fretting about it so much.

Like I've said, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. A bunch of threads crops up each time something like this happens, with people panicking like it's the end of the world (again); other people read a post or two, never reaching page 11, where someone stops to do the actual math, and they all think like it's a big deal. You make it a big deal.

Meanwhile, people who do the actual min-maxing, know damn well that those affixes will hardly dictate anything. There are classes that at the moment do ~30% damage more in m+ (compared to the underdogs), and you choose to fuss about a buff that will amount to what, 3% damage increase? Yeah, dude, this is surely time and effort well spent.

Imagine if you all did the proper thing. Stopped to think for a moment and than comment: "Chill, this is nothing, the buff is not enough to make or brake 99.9% of runs". Maybe than the "idiots" who refuse to invite you would reconsider? But no, the way to go is fret about it like it actually matters, only to reinforce their idea that you should have no place in their groups.

[erifwodahs]

The only people who I have seen advocating for keeping the affixes are the ones who do couple of dungeons a week at best at shit levels, probably don't even know what those affixes do - raging is literally not an affix is your group does 3 interrupts per dungeon anyway, it's a regular day. Same with bolstering or sanguine - doesn't really affect you when your regular pull is 4 mobs. Kinda hard to take them seriously. Only "terrible affixes" for them are afflicted and incorp because 50% haste or dmg is the same in every key level while 2 stacks of bolster on a +10 mob is way different than 2 stacks of bolster on a +16 mob.

That and those obnoxious "lul this is ez just get good" dudes who do medium-high keys but are far far away from actually doing actually hard keys and just like to "flex on noobs" with their 3.2k rating. They are also the same dudes who join a +7 key for aspects and expect to be treated like a god because "I carry you scrubs"

[Baraden]

This reaction is kinda the point to why these are dumb lol. It's maybe a 3% increase for one person with that damage in a dungeon. That is irrelevant to 99.9% of keys, especially if dungeon tuning is even close to now, where dps doesn't matter. Yet people read that and are already freaking out about it because everyone has been trained to optimize to the point of stupidity.

Blizzard knows that classes will be ostrasized on weeks where they don't benefit, they KNOW this and they still add these stupid affixes

[schwank05]

I've said it many times:

Give us more answers, not more questions. We don't need extra problems to solve to make things fun - instead, giving us new ways of solving existing problems is what makes things fun.

That is why Encrypted and Awakened are the all-time overall favorite affixes: they give you new ways of doing things, by offering you options and choices to positively modify your dungeon experience instead of throwing a negative roadblock in your way.

This idea of affixes being a sharp stick that comes out every 20 seconds to poke you in the eye and that somehow constituting a satisfying challenge is absurd, and anti-fun design.

Have positive-only affixes; or no affixes at all. Which is exactly what happens in places like PTR/TR when people get the option of choosing their own affixes - they don't. Because it's more fun that way.

Dungeons are complex enough these days. Every trash pack now has a bunch of abilities that you need to time, position, interrupt, or CC for. That combined with the straight key-level scaling is enough. You want to add more on top of that? Make it bonuses. Not penalties.

I am on board with this I think the did a great job with the Alpha, Beta, Gamma system in WOTLK classic where you had a problem in each dungeon/ zone but they also provided a way to fix said problem baked in with buffs for not ignoring mechanics. Something like this would be great for M+.

[BeerEelemental]

Affixes are good, it keeps the game mode fresh every week instead of doing the same aoe/stun spam without ever thinking at all every key, without affixes it just becomes a clown fiesta where you aoe/stun untill you get to a level where your aoe/stun doesn't do enough anymore and you can't time. The affixes at least require you to do some thinking usually.
I do like the way they are going in TWW though, affixes being rewarding if you do them right instead of punishing if you do them wrong is a good chance imho.

- - - Updated - - -

The only people who I have seen advocating for keeping the affixes are the ones who do couple of dungeons a week at best at shit levels, probably don't even know what those affixes do - raging is literally not an affix is your group does 3 interrupts per dungeon anyway, it's a regular day. Same with bolstering or sanguine - doesn't really affect you when your regular pull is 4 mobs. Kinda hard to take them seriously. Only "terrible affixes" for them are afflicted and incorp because 50% haste or dmg is the same in every key level while 2 stacks of bolster on a +10 mob is way different than 2 stacks of bolster on a +16 mob.

That and those obnoxious "lul this is ez just get good" dudes who do medium-high keys but are far far away from actually doing actually hard keys and just like to "flex on noobs" with their 3.2k rating. They are also the same dudes who join a +7 key for aspects and expect to be treated like a god because "I carry you scrubs"

And then you realize that those people doing keys up to max +10 are 99% of the WoW playerbase, and it's probably way smarter to listen and cater to the 99% of your playerbase instead of the 1% sweaty people who are just chasing an arbitrary number.

[erifwodahs]

And then you realize that those people doing keys up to max +10 are 99% of the WoW playerbase, and it's probably way smarter to listen and cater to the 99% of your playerbase instead of the 1% sweaty people who are just chasing an arbitrary number.

I'm 99% sure you know nothing because you just make numbers up. As it stands to be in top 1% now you need to do 16s-17. Way more people do keys above 9s than you think.

[BeerEelemental]

I'm 99% sure you know nothing because you just make numbers up. As it stands to be in top 1% now you need to do 16s-17. Way more people do keys above 9s than you think.

Top 1% is nowhere near 16-17's normally, it's more like 14-15, it's only this season cause it has like 1 3rd of the players of the other seasons.
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-df-4/eu

Switch between seasons and you see the rating drop for 1%.

90% is 2500 rating which correlates with timed 10s (this is where most people stop). So that's 90% of the characters who do mythic+, which is FAR from the same as all wow players for two reasons: one is that a lot of people don't even play M+ and two is that Rio tracks characters in those graphs, not accounts, so the people who play multiple characters in high rating even skew that data a bit more.

99% of wow playerbase does not do keys above 10 is a pretty good guesstimate based on the data we have, it's going to be maybe 1 or 2% lower, then the point still stands; The overwhelming majority of the playerbase doesn't do that kind of content, so the very little group who does is not worth catering to.

[Hottage]

Affixes are one of the reasons I find Mythic Keystones the most interesting part of PvE.

Are some of them insufferably annoying? Yes.

However the range of combintions helps keep the dungeon grind somewhat fresh over the months long seasons.

With slightly better balance I think it's one of the nicest PvE systems they've added since scaling raid difficulty.

[klaps_05]

I like affixes, but the fact that over 8 years the only thing blizzard has done with them is add a kiss/curse component is criminal.

[Aurrora]

Affixes that are class agnostic are fine, but when you have affixes like Afflicted that many classes can't help with it's a problem, those ones need to go.

[FelPlague]

I love affixes in the sense it adds a twist and new mechanics to dungeons so they arnt just the exact same thing every single week. Stuff like "oh it's fortified this week so we gotta pull slower and avoid the big guys if we can"
But of course the affixes themselves are hit or miss. I really do prefer the kiss/curse ones, which they seem to be focusing on now which is great.