1. #1

    How is everyone feeling on the Hunter Changes?

    Currently I am a lvl 70 Hunter Main with 521 ilvl. Some of the changes I am stoked about, some, not so much.

    I like some of the talent node changes in location, and some of the 2 point talents going to 1 points. Giving us another charge of survival of the fittest isn't bad, but outside of both being on CD and Exhiliteration on CD, Hunters are still somewhat squishy. I like that you can make Intimidate a 3 mob stun and usable without a pet. I like how they are trying to get kill shot going for either single target or multi-target fights by putting the free kill shit node in a more reasonable spot instead of behind several unused nodes in the current tree.

    I am with some of the people on the Hunter WoW forums though, saying that they don't like the "every 5 of a certain attack gain something else" like the Multi-shot and a murder of crows after 5 kill commands for BM, or calling out Hati or Fenrir every 3 casts of Dire Beast.

    My only problem it seems, is I am having some issues on what nodes to drop to get some of the new more readily available nodes that can be benefits like Explosive Shot. Knowing me, I am probably just taking too many nodes that aren't really needed on the tree or are only beneficial for M+ instead of raiding.

  2. #2
    Some of the changes are nice, like the entire right side of SV tree; now if only we could skip Wildfire completely... The BM stuff is interesting as well, though I feel that Basilisk Collar might be too good, meaning that you're forced to focus primarily on keeping 5 DoTs active at all times for a 50% buff. As for MM, I don't really mess with that spec all that much, so I can't say one way or another, but there's part of me that'd like to see Rapid Fire be an either or between machine gun and snipe (never been a huge fan of Rapid Fire /shrug LOL). And the Hero Talents are still boring, but that seems to be the case for about half the classes, so w/e.

    One question I do have, for anyone that's actually in the beta; there is only one Talent in SV that mentions requiring a 2H Weapon: Lunge (at least on wowhead). Is DW back on the table? Normally talents/abilities will state: Req X Weapon type, but I'm not seeing that, just Req. Hunter is all I'm seeing.

  3. #3
    I'm just waiting for a HUGEEEE change in hero talents.

  4. #4
    MM is pretty big damage numbers. I duo'd with a Fury Warrior as a Dark Ranger (Lone Wolf) spec from 70 to 80 in Beta and consistently was 20+% higher in DPS than they were. Haven't tried Surv or BM yet. Also was able to comfortably solo mobs 3-4 levels above me with not much issue as MM. Got stuck in Azj'Kahet on the main campaign that required 78 for me to continue, when I was 75. (I leveled two hunters...one solo and one with another player)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    One question I do have, for anyone that's actually in the beta; there is only one Talent in SV that mentions requiring a 2H Weapon: Lunge (at least on wowhead). Is DW back on the table? Normally talents/abilities will state: Req X Weapon type, but I'm not seeing that, just Req. Hunter is all I'm seeing.
    I just went on the beta to test and just about everything requires a 2h wep equipped. Without a 2hander you cant mongoose bite, explosive shot, flanking, and most other abilities. The only thing you can do is wildfire bomb and kill command.

  6. #6
    Bm feels pretty good.
    Not sure how i feel about pressing kill shot to proc serpent sting though. I think it would make sense for corba shot to do that?
    Basilisk collar is way overtuned right now, but it feels like with a dot spec you have a better distinction between single target and aoe bm. Right now the only difference is pressing multi shot every few seconds.
    Speaking of multishot. Its just annoying to use. Does absolutely no damage and you have to press it all the time in aoe. Either buff its damage or buff kill cleave duration a bit.

    Sv looks also promising but maybe a bit too simple now that you only have one bomb. Also the left side of the tree has like ten wildfire bomb talents that all do almost nothing by themself.
    The new mastery looks like its very strong. Maybe too strong when paired with vers. Not sure how they stack yet, but with the general survivability buffs to hunter it looks like survival really will survive everything.

    General things that still need to be changed (imo) for every hunter: Make bloodlust a hunter ability. They keep bringing up that MM runs into problems especially in group content, but bm and sv also use only 1/3 of available pets. Removing bloodlust from pets would not only solve the mm problems, but also open up the pet specs to pick a pet they want to.
    Roar of sacrifice should be buffed to at least 20%. Maybe 30% if they also increase the cooldown. Hunter already lack utility, so i don't think an external def cd would hurt them.
    And changes to the hero trees. They are all really bad.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that barbed shot should scale with haste. They want to improve secondary stat scaling, but barbed shot is fixed at two seconds still.
    Last edited by Foolicious; 2024-06-16 at 04:50 PM.

  7. #7
    SV is still unintuitive as fuck. You have ToS / KC / MgB gameplay competing with Bombs / Explosive shot resets on top of all the other shit like cooldowns, kill command, etc.

  8. #8
    - I don't love that every spec is essentially forced to take Explosive Shot.
    - We're also forced to take a PvP talent (tar trap) to get the interrupt.
    - Why is Scare Beast still a talent? Do their metrics actually show this as a popular use of a precious talent point? This needs to go away, make it baseline.
    - I don't feel affection towards all the "every 5 casts you apply some DoT" talents either, particularly the one that procs a DoT on kill shot, which I guess is additional DPS on bosses in execute phase but is otherwise largely useless except when you're allowed to kill shot outside of execute phase, which I believe only Dark Ranger offers. Wish they were a DD and percentage proc chance to be more consistent and useful on trash and in solo play.
    - Other than these things, generally an improvement.

    Hero talents
    - Dark Ranger thematically fits marks, Pack Leader fits BM. Problem is they can be used by other specs too!
    - Pack Leader is really passive and boring. I don't hate it, but it feels like all those Legion artifact talents that just passively procced damage and you look through your damage meter going "what the heck is that from again?" If there's no gameplay to engage with, why not make them +% increases to existing abilities? And yeah that's even more boring. Active is better than passive.
    - Plus there's a "choice" node that offers +25% multi-shot damage, which is absolutely useless for BM. So 100% of BM hunters will pick the other one because it actually does something.
    - Dark Ranger, one main benefit procs a charge of Barbed Shot, which is something BM does not particularly need.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2024-06-18 at 12:43 AM.

  9. #9
    For BM, it feels like the tree will work a lot better on low/moderate AoE scenarios, which is great. It felt really bad to be forced to choose into full AoE or full ST. I'd still like a bit more pruning of the talent tree - like Multi-Shot and Beast Cleave should be a single 1 point talent, especially because Multi-Shot isn't even functional without Beast Cleave, and vice-versa, both talents do not really exist alone, so there's no point in having them as separate talents. But the new tree is tons better than the current tree, current tree is a disgrace.

    I don't particularly care about the Hero Talents, in a way them being boring is actually a pro, since them being boring means you can just pick whichever is stronger. Covenants were awful in that some of them were really fun to use, but they didn't perform, so some specs were forced into clunky or uncomfortable covenants.

    An accurate feeling will only appear after number checking, but I liked the overall direction enough that I came back after six months of leaving the game, so "feels good, man".

  10. #10
    hero talents still boring. trick shots still sucks. SV slightly more fun thanks to explosive shot.

  11. #11
    I am still sad about BM. I wish it would become more complex. I guess it will always be the "easy" spec to get into as a new player.

  12. #12
    Banned Cynical Asshole's Avatar
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    Nah, I'm not feeling it.

    Not only hunters still can't kite shit other than ww monks and demon hunters, but now the meta build has more buttons than they had before, cause now all hunter specs take both explosive shot and death chakram, and BM also takes Dire Beast (which wasn't in the previous meta built), and of course if you want to play Dark Ranger you also take Black Arrow. And when it comes to utility, that's one more button there too because Scatter Shot is no longer a choice node with Bursting Shot. Nah, that's too much button bloat for my blood.

    Only thing that improved slightly is the defenses.

    Nah, I'm out. Gonna focus on my ret paladin, it's easy and fun to play, tops dps in M+ and it's pretty much cheat mode in solo casual PVP. Don't have to play piano on a MM hunter for lower rewards as well.
    Last edited by Cynical Asshole; 2024-06-18 at 04:23 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by gushDH View Post
    I am still sad about BM. I wish it would become more complex. I guess it will always be the "easy" spec to get into as a new player.
    BM should get the option for additional complexity through talents and hero talents for players that enjoy it. It really doesn't; dark ranger just adds one button really and pack leader is passive.

    Agree about multi shot+beast cleave in that BM simply cannot AE without both talents, so they really should be combined. Also as someone who recently leveled a BM hunter for the bronze, I've got to say that the spec is absolutely unplayable until you get the +100% resource generation talent, and you can't get that first so the initial levels suck pretty badly.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    One question I do have, for anyone that's actually in the beta; there is only one Talent in SV that mentions requiring a 2H Weapon: Lunge (at least on wowhead). Is DW back on the table? Normally talents/abilities will state: Req X Weapon type, but I'm not seeing that, just Req. Hunter is all I'm seeing.
    Late answer, but the two-handed specification was added shortly after 10.1 released, the talent originally reduced the cooldown with every auto-attack you made, so some people were grabbing two daggers to make it so they could just hammer WFB near-endlessly.

    It's just there to keep people from being cheeky.
    confirmed by my uncle nitnendo and masahiro samurai

  15. #15
    Can only speak for MM:

    Lone Wolf change is bad. Mm is the spec that evolves being a ranger/marksman(doh) and very little dependant on pets, so nerfing the CORE talent is a bad way to get to the goal of having a better choice when it comes to BL. Make BL baseline already. Having it being dependant on pets is old school wow tendency. Buff LW back to 10%, or ay least 8% and make it either give BL as well or make BL baseline.

    Death Chakram removed is kinda shitty for MM. Its not like MM had so many buttons in the first place, and it was nice to have a mini cd between Trueshot. Could have sent it over to the MM tree.

    The rest of the changes are fine, though it doesnt change much. Its better for sure, the talent tree is more refined, easier to define ST and AoE/Cleave specs going down the tree, so new MM Hunters should have an easier time navigating through the tree.

    For Hero talents, I really enjoy Sentinel for MM. Its nerfed now, a much needed one, but for me its more important how it feels as a MM Hunter and the synergy is one of the best of all the hero talents Ive tried, 10 classes so far. It feels so natural. Theme is also nice, I dont like pets for MM, but an owl who pops up doing some damage then leaves again, now thats my idea of MM companion. But I really really want that AoE ring to follow a target. Too many times during WoW when tank moves mobs out of my damage circles.

    Dark Ranger is disappointing.

  16. #16
    Immortal SL1200's Avatar
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    Going to take this oppurtunity to say I hate the lone wolf talent. It was bad enough to lose the ranged survival spec. Then they took pets away from marksman. The only choice now is beastmaster if you want the pet, but beastmaster sucks because you use so many pets. I just wanted to play the way I always did. Me and my pet with my bow. That was the fantasy I signed up for and it's not even in the game anymore.

  17. #17
    Agree, Marks should have the *option* to play without a pet, depending on the player's preference. The performance disparity should be small enough to ignore outside of the real hardcore, meaning <5% or so.

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