Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
LastLast
  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    No, i want players that were used to play heroic dungeons with questing gear to still have that progression path in TWW.



    Yeah, it is higher than questing gear, but not higher compared to the dragonflight progression in normal dungeons. And that was my point. Not that gear does not scale in dungeons. Sorry, if you got that impression.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No, the rewards will not change within the initial season in TWW compared to the initial season of dragonflight, if you have proofs for that claim, please link them. The official postings from blizzard talked about changes in heroic dungeons, m0 and mythic+. There were no changes mentioned for normal dungeons. The items you linked were from catchup phases from the seasonal gear curve which does simply not exist within the first season. It is nothing new that gear gets better as later you are in an expac. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the problem i talk about. The problem is that players which were used to play heroic dungeons with greens at endgame level will simply not be able to do that in TWW anymore. And no, "seasonal gearing curves" will not help when we are in the first season, where there is no better loot compared to the first season of former expacs.
    ?????????????????????????????????

    lmfao these posters on here are absolute morons, I can't take it

    your path of queue scumming heroics and getting carried is dead yes, that's a good thing.



    "I can't go into a heroic dungeon with vestiges of last expansion's gear and misc greens, tww is bad"

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    No, i want players that were used to play heroic dungeons with questing gear to still have that progression path in TWW.



    Yeah, it is higher than questing gear, but not higher compared to the dragonflight progression in normal dungeons. And that was my point. Not that gear does not scale in dungeons. Sorry, if you got that impression.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No, the rewards will not change within the initial season in TWW compared to the initial season of dragonflight, if you have proofs for that claim, please link them. The official postings from blizzard talked about changes in heroic dungeons, m0 and mythic+. There were no changes mentioned for normal dungeons. The items you linked were from catchup phases from the seasonal gear curve which does simply not exist within the first season. It is nothing new that gear gets better as later you are in an expac. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the problem i talk about. The problem is that players which were used to play heroic dungeons with greens at endgame level will simply not be able to do that in TWW anymore. And no, "seasonal gearing curves" will not help when we are in the first season, where there is no better loot compared to the first season of former expacs.
    You completely lack the capability to understand how gearing works now or in TWW.

    Normal dungeons WILL ALWAYS BE DOABLE with lvl 79 questing greens. They WILL ALWAYS drop gear from tier 2 of seasonal gear track. Heroic dungeons will require ilvl attainable from normal dungeons, and drop gear from higher tier than normal dungeons.

    So the progression will be as follows:

    1: Level up to 80 either via questing or with normal dungeons that scale rewards between lvls 70 and 79.

    2: At lvl 80, you can queue into Normal lvl 80 dungeons in questing greens. The dungeons have difficulty comparable to HC dungeons from DF S3 or before.

    3: After getting some gear from normal dungeons, you can queue into HC dungeons, which will drop gear one tier above normal dungeons.

    This will apply REGARDLESS OF which season or expansion we are running.

    It is the exact gameplay loop you are asking for, only with one tier higher reward cap than previously. Yet for some bizarre reason you seem to lack the ability or will to comprehend this. Are you too hung up with the words "Normal" and "Heroic"? Should I try to explain this with 9retty pictures instead?
    Last edited by Lahis; 2024-07-10 at 07:43 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    They provided a proper gearing path before, and they were and still are part of the leveling gameplay. Also the fact you could run a heroic dungeon to gear up simply after reaching endgame level. Now those players which got used to that will very likely wonder why heroic dungeons difficulty got much higher, and probably quit as their used to be endgame at endgame level short after leveling simply is gone. This is nothing the devs would ever think about, as they are blinded by bias.

    I mean.. their solution to get more players for gameplay is .. to make it more challenging? Who switched the lights off in the developers brain department when they thought "Oh, yes, sure, lets just make casual gameplay way more demanding to .. get more casual players!"? Shouldn't LFR have shown them where the masses go? And that it surely is not very useful to make gameplay which the masses are used to less interesting to them?

    Who makes those decisions? Was it just another one of those great ideas by a completely casual-gamer-blind game director who loves mythic raids?

    Just a well-meant tip to Ion: Keep your hands out of gameplay whose audience you neither understand nor ever will grasp what they like.
    Heroic dungeons were trivially beaten in early DF with quest gear by everyone I personally know. Most of my raid team at the time (AOTC was a tough clear for this team) didn't even bother with an M0 world tour because those were also trivial.

    Now, I know my experience isn't yours and I don't know how much we can generalize, but we were able to skip normal, skip heroic, skip 0s, and jump straight into keys after hitting end game. That seems like a system where some difficulty increases are appropriate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    I think the best solution to solve that problem is to let heroic dungeons on the leveling gear difficulty on expac launch, and to gradually make them more challenging, as older the expac gets, and as easier people are able to catchup. Means: You still will be able to run heroic dungeons with questing gear, as long there are no catchup mechanisms, but once there are catchup mechanisms, heroic dungeons would adapt.

    Same should happen to mythic+ in general. Initial Mythic+ up to 10 would be less difficult at launch, and more difficult with catchup mechanisms in place.

    I always thought it is completely stupid to change mythic+ difficulty based on experiences of the last seasons of an expac. But probably the devs just use that as a scapegoat to live their bias.
    This is literally the status quo

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    I think the solution to cater to average player difficulty and to tear down organisation as a prerequisite to play the game at anything above LFR would help to make raiding content more useful to many. There should be more gameplay as like 1-5 player raid content and LFR. There should be progression.

    Delves would be a great idea if progress would not stop at heroic gear level. The devs simply should stop trying to lure players into raiding guilds. It never worked and never will work to adress any notable number of players with that.
    Ok, so. THink of it like this. Blizzard is an artist. Artists get to create what they want. We are consumers, we get to buy the art we like. We DON'T normally get to say "Change this about the art you created" Sometimes we can commission pieces, which...if you want to commission a full MMO made to your specs, feel free to do so...but that's not the norm with art meant to be consumed by a large population. We get to decide whether or not to consume.

    Blizzard obviously wants to be known for group content, therefore...

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    You completely lack the capability to understand how gearing works now or in TWW.

    Normal dungeons WILL ALWAYS BE DOABLE with lvl 79 questing greens. They WILL ALWAYS drop gear from tier 2 of seasonal gear track. Heroic dungeons will require ilvl attainable from normal dungeons, and drop gear from higher tier than normal dungeons.

    So the progression will be as follows:

    1: Level up to 80 either via questing or with normal dungeons that scale rewards between lvls 70 and 79.

    2: At lvl 80, you can queue into Normal lvl 80 dungeons in questing greens. The dungeons have difficulty comparable to HC dungeons from DF S3 or before.

    3: After getting some gear from normal dungeons, you can queue into HC dungeons, which will drop gear one tier above normal dungeons.

    This will apply REGARDLESS OF which season or expansion we are running.

    It is the exact gameplay loop you are asking for, only with one tier higher reward cap than previously. Yet for some bizarre reason you seem to lack the ability or will to comprehend this. Are you too hung up with the words "Normal" and "Heroic"? Should I try to explain this with 9retty pictures instead?
    Ok, lets just take a while and think about the question what "casual gaming" is about. You know, casual gamers have that attribute they play rarely, means, not that often compared to other players. So now lets think about this change time and effort wise.

    And now read this:

    In TWW, casual gamers would have to put way more time effort into normal dungeons than in Dragonflight.

    I mean.. do you actually agree to that statement?

    Also and especially about this point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    2: At lvl 80, you can queue into Normal lvl 80 dungeons in questing greens. The dungeons have difficulty comparable to HC dungeons from DF S3 or before.
    I hope they do not have a that high difficulty as a heroic dungeon scaling to S3 like geared characters would mean the end of normal dungeons as we know them to players which got nothing but S1 greens from questing.

    Beside that fun anecdote, lets talk about TIME EFFORT, something that might not be your problem, but it is a problem of people that play once per week or one evening per two weeks. Now imagine, you would have to invest ten times as much the effort in running normal dungeons as before as a casual gamer.

    Now lets talk about what my problem with this change was:

    Casual gamers are not able to play heroic dungeons with quest greens anymore once they reach endgame level. The time investment they have to do is way way WAY bigger than before, especially if we talk about the time scale of a player that plays OCCASSIONALLY.

    Now think about the question if you would continue to play if you would have to play normal dungeons for the next ten weeks while you could simply complete heroic dungeon gameplay way earlier in earlier expacs.

    Now after you did that, reevaluate the change. And please come to a conclusion.
    Last edited by schmonz; 2024-07-10 at 08:05 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    Well, i disagree. And i argumented why. My guess is that many players simply will quit before they have to collect gear to play heroic dungeons.

    That is an old wisdom the devs do not want to learn, obviously. People rarely grow to a higher challenge in a computer game. They rather quit.

    And now they quit earlier when heroic dungeons are behind a gear brickwall.

    Yeah, you also do not need to play the game at all. Which probably some will do once they discover they cannot play heroic dungeons anymore once they reached endgame level.

    AFAIK normal dungeons are not changed, neither in gear drop quality nor in difficulty, which means, they will drop the same gear as before. Also, people could play heroic dungeons simply with questing gear after they were done leveling. That is what they are used to. Lets see how much their retention will drop with that change. And if it will be 60% quitting after one month instead of 40%.

    They could have done that without taking away gameplay from those that were used to play heroic dungeons being a fresh endgame char. I already brought a solution in my last post.
    I guess we'll see. They did something similar in Cataclysm, and then backed it down, but the game and the game's community has come a long way.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    if you want to commission a full MMO made to your specs, feel free to do so...but that's not the norm with art meant to be consumed by a large population. We get to decide whether or not to consume.
    So you say giving feedback and ideas for considerations is a bad thing? Especially for something as consumer and community driven like a MMORPG?

    But no, i would not commission a full MMO. Seems, there are some mythic raiders who do that with WoW already. And one of them is the game director.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    But that was not my point. My point was that people cannot run heroic dungeons anymore with questing leveling gear. Do you move the goalpost?

    I am well aware that rewards scale in level. Yet, the rewards in TWW will not be better than in normal dungeons before.
    Yes, that's the intended design. It's a feature, not a bug. There are 4 leveling dungeons and 4 max level NORMAL dungeons to progress through. Right now, people are often skipping those 4 max level dungeons and going straight to keys, especially before the changes they made to Key levels.

    Go look for the long post Blizz made some time back about dungeon design and a lot of your critiques will disappear. You're misremembering/misinterpreting the changes.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    Ok, lets just take a while and think about the question what "casual gaming" is about. You know, casual gamers have that attribute they play rarely, means, not that often compared to other players. So now lets think about this change time and effort wise.

    And now read this:

    In TWW, casual gamers would have to put way more time effort into normal dungeons than in Dragonflight.

    I mean.. do you actually agree to that statement?

    Also and especially about this point:



    I hope they do not have a that high difficulty as a heroic dungeon scaling to S3 like geared characters would mean the end of normal dungeons as we know then to players which got nothing but S1 greens from questing.

    Beside that fun anecdote, lets talk about TIME EFFORT, something that might not be your problem, but it is a problem of people that play once per week or one evening per two weeks. Now imagine, you would have to invest ten times as much the effort in running normal dungeons as before as a casual gamer.

    Now lets talk about what my problem with this change was:

    Casual gamers are not able to play heroic dungeons with quest greens anymore once they reach endgame level. The time investment they have to do is way way WAY bigger than before, especially if we talk about the time scale of a player that plays OCCASSIONALLY.

    Now think about the question if you would continue to play if you would have to play normal dungeons for the next ten weeks while you could simply complete heroic dungeon gameplay way earlier in earlier expacs.

    Now after you did that, reevaluate the change. And please come to a conclusion.
    I completely fail to see any issue here. Matchmade dungeon gameplay will be just as available to any player in TWW as it is now. It only has longer tail than it does now. If you don't feel like maxing out your gear from Heroic tier, then don't. It won't change anything compared to the Pre DF Season 4 gameplay loop.

    Again, the word "Heroic" means fucking nothing. It changes nothing for your gameplay loop if the dungeon says "Normal" or Heroic" in the queue.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    Yeah, but that seasonal gear curve does not exist at expac start. They rebalanced difficulty on late expacs seasons for the start of the next expac. They should add the fact that this kind of welfare epics does simply not exist at the start of an expac to their considerations. Which would be solved by the solution i brought a few posts ago, by leaving initial difficulty of heroic dungeons based on questing gear level, and to up the difficulty based on available catchup gearing.

    The developers used a fallacy as an argument to make their game more challenging. They "forgot" that seasoanble curves do not exist since start. Well, or it was their intent.
    What the hell are you talking about...It's the start of a new season, you hit max level and the season starts (well time gated, of course). So the seasonal gear curve starts...they reset it, more or less, at each season. That's part of why they increased the difficulty of normal & heroic dungeons, so that some players could start there at the beginning of each season before moving straight into keys...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    No, i want players that were used to play heroic dungeons with questing gear to still have that progression path in TWW.
    Too bad

    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    No, the rewards will not change within the initial season in TWW compared to the initial season of dragonflight, if you have proofs for that claim, please link them. The official postings from blizzard talked about changes in heroic dungeons, m0 and mythic+. There were no changes mentioned for normal dungeons. The items you linked were from catchup phases from the seasonal gear curve which does simply not exist within the first season. It is nothing new that gear gets better as later you are in an expac. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the problem i talk about. The problem is that players which were used to play heroic dungeons with greens at endgame level will simply not be able to do that in TWW anymore. And no, "seasonal gearing curves" will not help when we are in the first season, where there is no better loot compared to the first season of former expacs.
    Do your own research, there's a huge post about this they made prior to S3 or 4, whenever they changed the key levels. It exists, go look for it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    So you say giving feedback and ideas for considerations is a bad thing? Especially for something as consumer and community driven like a MMORPG?

    But no, i would not commission a full MMO. Seems, there are some mythic raiders who do that with WoW already. And one of them is the game director.
    No, I'm not saying giving feedback is a bad thing. There's a world of difference between saying "I wish they would" and "This is terrible design and everyone will hate it"

    You're on one side of the pendulum and it's the wrong one.

    When I didn't like the game design, from WoD through SL, I left reviews/notes every time I cancelled a subscription. Who do you think they payed more attention to? You, who either doesn't play or decides to continue playing, but either way puts your feedback on a 3rd party forum. Or me, who stopped paying and gave specific reasons each time?
    I have a hunch.

    Edit: In retrospect, I wish I had been more polite in my responses. I apologize for my rudeness.

    But the points still stand. I get that you're concerned that players will leave as a result of these changes, and that's a real possibility. BUT

    Your arguments are based on flawed understandings of the new dungeon difficulty/reward system.
    Your arguments assume that the players you're talking about will be completely unaware of the changes (some of them will, to be sure) and won't be able to figure out what changed. Your arguments assume that what is best for the players you have in mind is what is best for the game as a whole.
    Your argument assumes that the current player base does not want more content with higher difficulties.
    Your arguments assume that more players equals a better game.

    Those assumptions are just that, assumptions. You might be right, but you need to recognize that YOU are the one with the burden of proof when YOU are the one arguing against the game design.
    Last edited by Thirtyrock; 2024-07-10 at 08:13 PM.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Do your own research, there's a huge post about this they made prior to S3 or 4, whenever they changed the key levels. It exists, go look for it.
    I remember the huge post, and they did not talk about changes to normal dungeons. They talked about heroic dungeons, m0 und mythic+ and tried to hide the fact they cemented a raise in difficulty up by 10 levels in mythic+ and m0, and erecting a gear prerequisite for heroic dungeons behind removing timers temporily.

    I remember their post because they fooled me with "removing timers" initially. Yep. Here i stand. Fool me once, Blizzard. Or, well, a lot more times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    I completely fail to see any issue here. Matchmade dungeon gameplay will be just as available to any player in TWW as it is now. It only has longer tail than it does now. If you don't feel like maxing out your gear from Heroic tier, then don't. It won't change anything compared to the Pre DF Season 4 gameplay loop.
    Sure, it is nothing if a casual gamer has to take 10 times more time to gear up for his casual raiding guild now. I mean.. that is literally nothing. Or?

    Why can't the devs limit more time effort changes to mythic raiders? Why does it have to hit those hard that have a very narrow time frame?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    No, I'm not saying giving feedback is a bad thing. There's a world of difference between saying "I wish they would" and "This is terrible design and everyone will hate it"
    Well, but it is terrible design. Because it hits those with more time effort which only have limited time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    You're on one side of the pendulum and it's the wrong one.
    Well. Thanks for your feedback, i assume?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thirtyrock View Post
    Who do you think they payed more attention to? You, who either doesn't play or decides to continue playing, but either way puts your feedback on a 3rd party forum. Or me, who stopped paying and gave specific reasons each time?
    I sometimes think they listen to noone else than themself. Considering all the stupid ideas they had in the past, they are captured deep down in their own echo chamber and know nothing about which consequences their changes have.
    Last edited by schmonz; 2024-07-10 at 08:25 PM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    I remember the huge post, and they did not talk about changes to normal dungeons. They talked about heroic dungeons, m0 und mythic+ and tried to hide the fact they cemented a raise in difficulty up by 10 levels in mythic+ and m0, and erecting a gear prerequisite for heroic dungeons behind removing timers temporily.

    I remember their post because they fooled me with "removing timers" initially. Yep. Here i stand. Fool me once, Blizzard. Or, well, a lot more times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sure, it is nothing if a casual gamer has to take 10 times more time to gear up for his casual raiding guild now. I mean.. that is literally nothing. Or?

    Why can't the devs limit more time effort changes to mythic raiders? Why does it have to hit those hard that have a very narrow time frame?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well, but it is terrible design. Because it hits those with more time effort which only have limited time.

    Well. Thanks for your feedback, i assume?

    I sometimes think they listen to noone else than themself. Considering all the stupid ideas they had in the past, they are captured deep down in their own echo chamber and know nothing about which consequences their changes have.
    First you're correct, they're not changing the difficulties of Normal, my mistake on that one. It doesn't change any of arguments.

    I think the design is great and it will make the game more enjoyable for me. so....who's right and who's wrong? How in the world can you say it's terrible design? Blizzard wants players to spend more time in Heroic and M0 difficulties, that was their expressed goal, what they literally stated. Will this change accomplish its intended goal? I think so. If it does, then it's GOOD design because it does what it was intended to do. If it doesn't, then it was a bad design FOR THAT GOAL.

    It's like saying a knife is a terrible utensil because you can't drink through it like a straw. It wasn't designed for that. You don't like their GOALS, so you argue with their methods. You don't get to decide their goals. If their goals are for players to spend more time in heroic and M0 and the changes make the game unpleasant for you, you get to NOT spend more time in Heroic and M0. If enough players do that, then Blizzard will know their changes didn't do what they wanted them to do and will either roll them back or try something else.

    In looking at the changes and the intended outcome, I believe they have a good chance of accomplishing what they set out to accomplish.

    I'd add that, whether they explicitely stated it or not, this change should also cause people to spend more time in max-level normal dungeons, which is a good thing. Most players shouldn't be able to completely skip multiple tiers of difficulties, from my personal design philosophy. Gearing should be in such a place that the majority of players need to play through each difficulty to reach the next difficulty - this last piece is very much just my opinion based on what I enjoy. I do skip content, but I wish each level of content was a significant enough jump in difficulty that I needed to complete the prior difficulty.

    As far as this change hitting people with more/less time, that's silly. I play less than 6-8 hours per week, most weeks, and am able to clear roughly 1/2 through Mythic and get 2500+ each season. Time isn't the issue and casual does not equal low skill. I have a casual schedule, 1 4 hour raid and then a couple of hours here and there to do keys or whatever through the week.
    The changes you are referencing affect low skill players. That's sad for those players, if they don't enjoy it, but that's the direction blizzard is taking the game.

    If M+ was removed...I think you'd be left with an empty game where a bunch of people just go around and quest. I don't think raiding would survive the removal of M+, either. I think we'd lose almost all group content, at least any group content with enough difficulty to be satisfying for the majority of players.

    But I could be wrong
    Last edited by Thirtyrock; 2024-07-10 at 08:43 PM.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by schmonz View Post
    Sure, it is nothing if a casual gamer has to take 10 times more time to gear up for his casual raiding guild now. I mean.. that is literally nothing. Or?

    Why can't the devs limit more time effort changes to mythic raiders? Why does it have to hit those hard that have a very narrow time frame?
    For raiding nothing has changed. Ever since M0 has been a thing, you do those dungeons for pre-raid gear and supplement with HC dungeons if you are still missing something.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    For raiding nothing has changed. Ever since M0 has been a thing, you do those dungeons for pre-raid gear and supplement with HC dungeons if you are still missing something.
    Yup. And the assumption that you have to have tons of time to be a mythic raider is just wrong. You have to be relatively good at the game, but there are teams who clear CE on 1 day/week raid schedules.

  14. #214
    This argument is insane. After leveling you easily end up in high 550's. Quest gear/rares/chests etc while in the last 79-80 part of level drop 571 gear as do world quests once you finish leveling. Mind you all this gear can be upgraded with valor(flight)stones to 580 with no crests and 593 with crests. Heroics can be queued for at 571 and drop gear starting at 580 with M0 dropping 1 tier higher at 593.

    Weekly quest rewards give 580 gear(same upgrade path as M0 rewards) and when paired with the quest items/rares/WQ's you can EASILY bypass normal dungeons and head straight into heroic 5mans. So no you cant ding 80 hit 'i' and queue for a random heroic but thats pretty much always been the case. Even in dragonflight I had to walk in with my guildies for the first few heroics.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Elbob View Post
    This argument is insane. After leveling you easily end up in high 550's. Quest gear/rares/chests etc while in the last 79-80 part of level drop 571 gear as do world quests once you finish leveling. Mind you all this gear can be upgraded with valor(flight)stones to 580 with no crests and 593 with crests. Heroics can be queued for at 571 and drop gear starting at 580 with M0 dropping 1 tier higher at 593.

    Weekly quest rewards give 580 gear(same upgrade path as M0 rewards) and when paired with the quest items/rares/WQ's you can EASILY bypass normal dungeons and head straight into heroic 5mans. So no you cant ding 80 hit 'i' and queue for a random heroic but thats pretty much always been the case. Even in dragonflight I had to walk in with my guildies for the first few heroics.
    Had suspicion that this change is only really effective for DF S4. New expansion is always a reset to status quo.

    Well maybe S2 onwards the Level 80 -> Normal -> Heroic curve will work after the dungeon ilvls get the bump.

  16. #216
    Scarab Lord
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    One path
    Posts
    4,912
    It only goes away if you replace it with something better, what would you have it evolve into to suit you?
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  17. #217
    Am I crazy or something? I see a lot of people complain about the timer, M+ was implemented so people challenge themselves, if you don't like the timer, if you don't like X or Y why in the god's name do you want to challenge the level of keys where the timer is important, I'm honestly trying to understand the logic of some people here and the only thing that came to my mind is they want gear/prestige without actually putting the effort it requires, for god sake, you have normal/heroic/M0 if the timer is a problem or worst case scenario, make a group where you told everyone the point of the group is to finish the dungeon regards the timer, you will find a lot of people for that, what do I miss here lads? what is the argument?

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    Am I crazy or something? I see a lot of people complain about the timer, M+ was implemented so people challenge themselves, if you don't like the timer, if you don't like X or Y why in the god's name do you want to challenge the level of keys where the timer is important, I'm honestly trying to understand the logic of some people here and the only thing that came to my mind is they want gear/prestige without actually putting the effort it requires, for god sake, you have normal/heroic/M0 if the timer is a problem or worst case scenario, make a group where you told everyone the point of the group is to finish the dungeon regards the timer, you will find a lot of people for that, what do I miss here lads? what is the argument?
    There is no argument.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    Am I crazy or something? I see a lot of people complain about the timer,
    It's really just a handful of complainers. If it were a widespread complaint you'd see it reflected in the dungeon tool in the manner of how people look to fill their groups.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    It's really just a handful of complainers. If it were a widespread complaint you'd see it reflected in the dungeon tool in the manner of how people look to fill their groups.
    This. MMO-C has a few loud posters who have proven time and time again, and in this very thread even, that they are in fact mad cuz bad.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •