Shadow Hunter Class Concept 2024

[username993720]

Because they're lore accurate to Tolkein?

Perhaps.
And maybe because they were trying to appeal to someone.

Dark Skin options were added in Cataclysm. They did not exist in Vanilla. They added tattoo options around the same time, to coincide with Wildhammer and Dark Irons being present in Ironforge.

What?
What tattoo options? We didn't get that until Shadowlands.

https://blizzardwatch.com/2023/11/29...son-discovery/

But the blackrock’s tech isn’t on the level of the Goblin’s, which is the original point. We have Goblins driving around on highways on convertible cars, and watching robot-based sporting events. No orcs are doing that.

Orcs had Grimrail Depot and one of them used a robot suit in hellfire citadel.

That’s called an evil group from WC1 and WC2 being turned into good guys in WC3 and WoW.

"Good guys"
Morally grey. Don't forget the Wrathgate, Garrosh and the War of Thorns.

They’re literally just there for flavor. Which leaves plenty of room for Blizzard to create a playable sand troll race.

Why would we have beige colored jungle trolls and a sand troll race? It's kinda unnecessary.

But Warrior is still not a RDPS class. A Shadow Hunter would be.

Well, not fully. It could throw back in the day.
Yours is not pure RDPS either.

That would be the auto-attacks.

Mages, Warlocks, Priests, and Evokers also have melee auto attacks. They’re still considered ranged classes.

Fair.
But i still think two representations of Berserkers are redundant.

I have no problem with Dark Trolls being a potential playable Troll race.

Then, switch them with the Amani.

The other one is Blood trolls given the brief alliance between the Alliance and the Blood Trolls in the Nazmir unlock for Alliance side, though that's gonna need a "Hey uh we're not old god cultists any more" and also that alliance didn't last more than like, 3 quests

I've thought about them too, but they are way too primitive and dark for the Alliance.
Safe bet is Dark Trolls. Or Harronir.

Not to mention that troll fans want the Amani to be playable.

On the Horde. Not on the Alliance.
Zul'jin is not unique either. There are axethrowers in other tribes.

Amani on Alliance are the perfect foil for Blood Elves in northern EK, who they would never ally themselves with. Soon, we will all be trapped in that little place called Quel'thalas together. Are we to share that city or something? Impossible.

It was the High elves, which are on the Alliance, and the Humans who attacked them during the second war.

[Teriz]

l
Already playable with the troll skin. If Eredar can't get an allied race slot despite their history in the franchise, sand trolls got no chance given you can already be basically identical to them

Incorrect. According to the game, the Farakki are independent of the Horde. The playable troll races are Darkspear and Zalandari. The Darkspear of the echo isles are not the same as the Farakki in Tanaris.

[Mecheon]

Incorrect. According to the game, the Farakki are independent of the Horde. The playable troll races are Darkspear and Zalandari. The Darkspear of the echo isles are not the same as the Farakki in Tanaris.

Trolls have an appearance that, for all intents and purposes, is identical to the farakki though

So, yeah, they're not part of the Horde, but given you can already look identical to them? They're pretty much one we can wipe off ever being an allied race, along with Wildhammer dwarves

[Teriz]

Orcs had Grimrail Depot and one of them used a robot suit in hellfire citadel.

With extensive help from the Goblin Blackfuse Company.

"Good guys"
Morally grey. Don't forget the Wrathgate, Garrosh and the War of Thorns.

You seriously think Thrall isn’t considered a good guy in Warcraft? Thrall is the face of the Horde throughout the history of WoW, regardless who the Warchief was at the time.

Why would we have beige colored jungle trolls and a sand troll race? It's kinda unnecessary.

Because according to lore, Farakki have unique features and is culturally distinct from the Darkspear. Blizzard coukd create an interesting and distinct looking troll race.

Well, not fully. It could throw back in the day.
Yours is not pure RDPS either.

Uh yes it is. The spec is meant to fight completely at range. Warriors are not.

Fair.
But i still think two representations of Berserkers are redundant.

You’re welcome to that opinion.

Then, switch them with the Amani.

No.

- - - Updated - - -

Trolls have an appearance that, for all intents and purposes, is identical to the farakki though

Uh, nope;

The relentless desert sun of Tanaris beat down on the trolls, who gradually adapted to their harsh new environment, becoming sand trolls, now known as the Sandfury tribe. Today they bear only a rough resemblance to the jungle trolls from whom they are descended.[11]

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Far...e-SandTroll-11

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tro...um/Sand_Trolls

So, yeah, they're not part of the Horde, but given you can already look identical to them? They're pretty much one we can wipe off ever being an allied race, along with Wildhammer dwarves

Except based on the canon, you can’t. Wildhammer are part of the alliance and look like dwarves. Farakki Trolls aren’t part of the horde, and they barely resemble jungle trolls.

[Mecheon]

Uh, nope;

If you're telling me this skin option on the left doesn't look like a sand troll then I got questions.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Far...e-SandTroll-11

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tro...um/Sand_Trolls

I would not trust a Fandom wiki on anything. Regardless, ever since launch they've been the jungle troll model with a tan skin. You can say "Only a bare resemblance" all you like, but when the in-game examples are, y'know, this? I think I'm gonna trust the in-game presentation. Then we can add Hearthstone to it which look closer to the player skin than the NPC one.

If you present it in game as a tan jungle troll and present it in artwork as a tan jungle troll, I think I'm gonna trust the game and the artwork on this one over an unsourced quote from a Fandom wiki that, as far as I can tell, came from the Troll Chronicle page on the website that was made unofficial in 2016.

Except based on the canon, you can’t. Wildhammer are part of the alliance and look like dwarves. Farakki Trolls aren’t part of the horde, and they barely resemble jungle trolls.

Canon doesn't matter here. What matters is there already is a tan skin troll option that looks basically identical to the sand trolls. In-game ever since Vanilla they've just been the jungle troll model with a tan skin, to say nothing of Hearthstone. They pretty much said there's a bunch of non-canon skin options you can muck around with, buuut those being non-canon skin options kinda precludes the ones they're based on being seperate Allied Races, logically folllowing.

The option is there amd you can do 90% of what you would do as a hypothetical sand troll allied race right now. Much like we don't have seperate Darkfallen as an option and just a skin for BElves/VElves/NElves, we're not getting sand trolls playable.

We're not getting Eredar, we're not getting Darkfallen, we're not getting High Elves, we're not getting Wildhammer and we're not getting Sand Trolls

[Teriz]

If you're telling me this skin option on the left doesn't look like a sand troll then I got questions.

Again, the lore describes the sand trolls as looking very different than their jungle troll cousins.

I would not trust a Fandom wiki on anything. Regardless, ever since launch they've been the jungle troll model with a tan skin. You can say "Only a bare resemblance" all you like,

I didn’t say that, Blizzard did.

but when the in-game examples are, y'know, this? I think I'm gonna trust the in-game presentation. Then we can add Hearthstone to it which look closer to the player skin than the NPC one.

If you present it in game as a tan jungle troll and present it in artwork as a tan jungle troll, I think I'm gonna trust the game and the artwork on this one over an unsourced quote from a Fandom wiki that, as far as I can tell, came from the Troll Chronicle page on the website that was made unofficial in 2016.

So you’re saying that Blizzard has never updated a race’s appearance when they made them playable? Ztrolls being a prime example.

Canon doesn't matter here.

It most certainly does. Since Blizzard has carved out a large distinction between sandfury and Darkspear trolls, then it’s perfectly justifiable to create a playable Sandfury troll race. They look different, they have a different culture, and they’re not part of the horde. That’s more difference than Kul’Tirans had than regular humans, and they got their own race.

[Mecheon]

Again, the lore describes the sand trolls as looking very different than their jungle troll cousins.

And yet. Every single time we've seen them in-game and in Hearthstone? They're jungle trolls with tan skin. They're even descended from a Jungle Troll tribe to explain why they look like them and not the bulkier trolls.

There is no source foor that "Very different" quote. Orcs look "very different" from trolls for crying out loud. Go bust open Chronicle or Exploring Kalimdor and find me a source for it, or I'll just assume its normal Fandom garbage. That website's worth about as much as toilet paper

I didn’t say that, Blizzard did.

Where did they say it? Because, well, as mentioned, I tried to find the source on that and the best I got was a webpage deleted around a decade ago that was made for the Cata troll invasion thing, so still had oldschool Zandys.

So you’re saying that Blizzard has never updated a race’s appearance when they made them playable? Ztrolls being a prime example.

Zandys didn't get updated when they became playable. First they got updated in Cata to use the forest troll model, then they got updated in MoP in patch 5.1 when they became relevant again. We just had Remix showing us them being relevant, even. Their BfA appearance is just extrapolated from their MoP one

It most certainly does. Since Blizzard has carved out a large distinction between sandfury and Darkspear trolls, then it’s perfectly justifiable to create a playable Sandfury troll race. They look different, they have a different culture, and they’re not part of the horde. That’s more difference than Kul’Tirans had than regular humans, and they got their own race.

Do I gotta go and dig up the quote where Blizzard talked about the sandfury skin and mentioned it was non-canon but if you wanted to muck around with it, go nuts?

They don't look vastly different. We've seen Sandfury trolls for over 20 years in this game and every single time they've shown up they're just tan jungle trolls. They don't even use the bulkier models. The big fancy boss one of them in Throne of Thunder, when they updated other trolls to be fancy, is just a redo of the male troll model. Their Hearthstone appearances are clearly inspired by these. If Sandfury trolls were supposed to look so, so very different, then why has every single artwork and portrayal of them for the past 20 years just matched what they look like ingame, which is to say: Tan jungle trolls?

If Eredar, one of the most lore-heavy races in Warcraft's history, one of two races people would have accepted as another "Yeah that's the same model but with new customisation as an allied race", if Eredar cannot be an Allied Race? Sandfury will not be an Allied Race. I am fine definitively saying this. You can basically play as one with everything but a city and supporting lore at the moment, there is no drive for them to be playable and nor is there any reason given we already have jungle trolls, who are just a skin texture change away from them.

If you think people are annoyed with Earthen? They'd be LIVID with Sandfury because, once again, we already have everything new they'd offer. Same reason we don't need a seperate Blackrock or Laughing Skull option for Mag'har

[Triceron]

And yet. Every single time we've seen them in-game and in Hearthstone? They're jungle trolls with tan skin. They're even descended from a Jungle Troll tribe to explain why they look like them and not the bulkier trolls.

To be fair, if Blizzard wanted Sand Trolls to be playable (big IF) then they could always give them new visual differences, just like they did for Amani in TBC, then Zandalari in MoP and BFA.

And NPCs can be represented with whatever they have at hand, much like Dark Irons didn't actually have flaming beard options until BFA; all the NPCs were just Dark Skin Dwarves with regular hair and beards. If made into a player race, Blizzard would very likely add more flavour to their looks.

[Mecheon]

To be fair, if Blizzard wanted Sand Trolls to be playable (big IF) then they could always give them new visual differences, just like they did for Amani in TBC, then Zandalari in MoP and BFA.

And NPCs can be represented with whatever they have at hand, much like Dark Irons didn't actually have flaming beard options until BFA; all the NPCs were just Dark Skin Dwarves with regular hair and beards. If made into a player race, Blizzard would very likely add more flavour to their looks.

Oh yeah, completely could. It'd be messy given all the artwork, but they could give 'em, I dunno. Beards? (beards for trolls, thanks blizzard)

But, given the reception of the BfA allied races, I get the feeling Blizzard wasn't happy with how they were all received in terms of effort put in and player reception, hence why Eredar and Darkfallen ended up as skin choices, and Earthen have a ton of customisation, unlike Mag'har or original Lightforged

[Teriz]

And yet. Every single time we've seen them in-game and in Hearthstone? They're jungle trolls with tan skin. They're even descended from a Jungle Troll tribe to explain why they look like them and not the bulkier trolls.

Yeah, no different than when Zaladari Trolls first appeared and were also just color-swapped darkspear trolls, or Kul'tirans originally using the exact same model as humans before they were made their own race. Blizzard isn't going to give them their own models until they decide to make them playable.

There is no source foor that "Very different" quote. Orcs look "very different" from trolls for crying out loud. Go bust open Chronicle or Exploring Kalimdor and find me a source for it, or I'll just assume it's normal Fandom garbage. That website's worth about as much as toilet paper

I linked you to the source. It was from The Troll Compendium which was an official article from Blizzard.

Where did they say it? Because, well, as mentioned, I tried to find the source on that and the best I got was a webpage deleted around a decade ago that was made for the Cata troll invasion thing, so still had oldschool Zandys.

Again, they said it in that online article whose content is still preserved on that Wowpedia site. What? You believe since it didn't survive the overhaul on Blizzard's page that it never existed?

Zandys didn't get updated when they became playable. First they got updated in Cata to use the forest troll model, then they got updated in MoP in patch 5.1 when they became relevant again. We just had Remix showing us them being relevant, even. Their BfA appearance is just extrapolated from their MoP one

And nothing stops Blizzard from doing the exact same thing to Sand trolls over time if they decide to make them playable. The point is that just because Blizzard is sharing models with different groups of trolls doesn't mean that those groups aren't distinct in canon and Blizzard can exploit that lore any time they want.

Do I gotta go and dig up the quote where Blizzard talked about the sandfury skin and mentioned it was non-canon but if you wanted to muck around with it, go nuts?

They don't look vastly different. We've seen Sandfury trolls for over 20 years in this game and every single time they've shown up they're just tan jungle trolls. They don't even use the bulkier models. The big fancy boss one of them in Throne of Thunder, when they updated other trolls to be fancy, is just a redo of the male troll model. Their Hearthstone appearances are clearly inspired by these. If Sandfury trolls were supposed to look so, so very different, then why has every single artwork and portrayal of them for the past 20 years just matched what they look like ingame, which is to say: Tan jungle trolls?

Again, the lore states plainly that they look different. The lore also states that the Sandfury aren't part of the Horde, but are an independent tribe, so they're technically not playable, and certainly wouldn't be a skin swap of Darkspear trolls.

You're free to ignore those facts if you wish.

If Eredar, one of the most lore-heavy races in Warcraft's history, one of two races people would have accepted as another "Yeah that's the same model but with new customisation as an allied race", if Eredar cannot be an Allied Race? Sandfury will not be an Allied Race. I am fine definitively saying this. You can basically play as one with everything but a city and supporting lore at the moment, there is no drive for them to be playable and nor is there any reason given we already have jungle trolls, who are just a skin texture change away from them.

Well thank you for your input. However, this class write-up is based on the possibility that they could be a playable race, and would not only make. Shadow Hunter class more interesting, but would be an interesting addition to the lineup of playable races.

[Triceron]

Oh yeah, completely could. It'd be messy given all the artwork, but they could give 'em, I dunno. Beards? (beards for trolls, thanks blizzard)

I'd give them a makeover and push a new angle for em.

Personal preference? Gerudo from Legend of Zelda come to mind. Sharper features, thinner, more angular noses, pronounced cheek ones, more squinty look, thinner hair styles (less wild compared to Jungle Trolls).

The Sandfury Troll boss from BFA is a pretty good basis, just push the features a bit more.

[username993720]

With extensive help from the Goblin Blackfuse Company.

Yes. The tech is goblin in origin. They adopted it for themselves. That's why the Iron Horde is associated with the Mag'har, not the Goblins.

You seriously think Thrall isn’t considered a good guy in Warcraft? Thrall is the face of the Horde throughout the history of WoW, regardless who the Warchief was at the time.

I didn't mention Thrall. And he's not the only one in the Horde.

Because according to lore, Farakki have unique features and is culturally distinct from the Darkspear. Blizzard coukd create an interesting and distinct looking troll race.

Press X for doubt.
They've pretty much gave us all the leany options, with Jungle, Sand and Dark Trolls. Then, we have Zandalari Trolls, which are the upright option. We're only missing the burly options of Forest and Frost Trolls (which, i suspect will become playable in the form of Forest Trolls on the Horde, with an option for a Frost Troll skin, since Forest Trolls are such an iconic Horde race. Almost as much as Ogres. I'd kill for a Blood Troll allied race, though. They are cool as fuck.

Uh yes it is. The spec is meant to fight completely at range. Warriors are not.

It plays like old hunter. Changing between melee and range depending on distance from the target.

No.

Why not?
What's wrong with Dark Trolls?

we're not getting High Elves

To be honest, with Midnight revamping Quel'thalas and the popularity of the High elves thread, i have a suspicion we'll see something.

[Teriz]

Yes. The tech is goblin in origin. They adopted it for themselves. That's why the Iron Horde is associated with the Mag'har, not the Goblins.

No they didn't. The Goblins literally built it for them. There was some orcish modifications in some things, but for the most part, Grimrail and the mechs were entirely Goblin creations.

I didn't mention Thrall. And he's not the only one in the Horde.

He leads and/or represents the Horde. He has throughout the entirety of WoW.

Press X for doubt.

Uh, the lore LITERALLY says that.

It plays like old hunter. Changing between melee and range depending on distance from the target.

Old Hunter was still RDPS.

[username993720]

No they didn't. The Goblins literally built it for them. There was some orcish modifications in some things, but for the most part, Grimrail and the mechs were entirely Goblin creations.

For the Mag'har to use, which they incorporated into their culture. It is the Iron Horde, not the Iron Bilgewater.

He leads and/or represents the Horde. He has throughout the entirety of WoW.

No, he doesn't. He retired back in Cataclysm. He's now a fragile damsel.

Uh, the lore LITERALLY says that.

Why would we need 2 different playable versions of them?

Old Hunter was still RDPS.

Mixed with melee.
Anyway, you want a thrower playstyle class. I argue it should be part of the Hunter (Headhunter) and Warrior (Berserker).

[Teriz]

For the Mag'har to use, which they incorporated into their culture. It is the Iron Horde, not the Iron Bilgewater.

Except they didn't. The Orc clans who formed the Iron Horde utilized Goblin technology, and in some cases they repurposed the Iron Star to make their own contraptions, but in no way are the Mag'har a technological race. They're a more primitive and back to basics Orc race.

No, he doesn't. He retired back in Cataclysm. He's now a fragile damsel.

And the entire time Garrosh was in charge people were comparing him to Thrall, and Thrall became a dragon aspect. Thrall came back literally in the next expansion to depose Garrosh. It happened again when it came time to depose Sylvanas. Thrall is the center concept of the faction. Anytime it veers away from that center, Thrall is brought back into the narrative to drag the Horde back to him.

Why would we need 2 different playable versions of them?

We don't have two different versions of them. One is a color swap for Darkspear, the other is the actual Farakki tribe. The actual Farakki tribe is independent of the Horde and look very different from Jungle Trolls.

Mixed with melee.

Uh no. The Hunter class prior to Legion was entirely RDPS. That was their role.

Also pretty much every ranged class has melee auto-attacks and a melee ranged knockback.

[Nightshade711]

Except they didn't. The Orc clans who formed the Iron Horde utilized Goblin technology, and in some cases they repurposed the Iron Star to make their own contraptions, but in no way are the Mag'har a technological race. They're a more primitive and back to basics Orc race.

You’re contradicting yourself here.

How are they “more primitive and back to basics” when they’re capable of inventing a wide variety of machines based off of a single Iron Star.

[Teriz]

You’re contradicting yourself here.

How are they “more primitive and back to basics” when they’re capable of inventing a wide variety of machines based off of a single Iron Star.

They were doing all of that on Draenor when they were with the Iron Horde and working with the Blackfuse company and under the influence of Garrosh to create an industrialized military force to conquer Azeroth. On Azeroth they've reverted back to basics since they're no longer part of a massive industrial war machine like they were in WoD.

[Nightshade711]

They were doing all of that on Draenor when they were with the Iron Horde and working with the Blackfuse company and under the influence of Garrosh to create an industrialized military force to conquer Azeroth. On Azeroth they've reverted back to basics since they're no longer part of a massive industrial war machine like they were in WoD.

Almost because in WoD they were massive group of most the Orcish clans at their peak and now they’re very few (in comparison) refugees. But even then we’ve seen them build and use their own war machines in BfA, so their technology isn’t lost in the slightest.

[Teriz]

Almost because in WoD they were massive group of most the Orcish clans at their peak and now they’re very few (in comparison) refugees.

Yes, pushed by Garrosh and the Blackfuse company to build war machines. The Iron Horde replaced demonic magic for technology (from Goblins on Azeroth)

But even then we’ve seen them build and use their own war machines in BfA, so their technology isn’t lost in the slightest.

We've seen Mag'har Orcs build mechs and railroads on Azeroth? Where?

[Ielenia]

Uh no. The Hunter class prior to Legion was entirely RDPS. That was their role.

Those marked with a circle are melee abilities.

Then, for non-talent abilities, the survival hunter had: Wing Clip, Mongoose Bite and Raptor Strike,