Shadow Hunter Class Concept 2024

[Triceron]

They were doing all of that on Draenor when they were with the Iron Horde and working with the Blackfuse company and under the influence of Garrosh to create an industrialized military force to conquer Azeroth. On Azeroth they've reverted back to basics since they're no longer part of a massive industrial war machine like they were in WoD.

So would you say Japan is still a backwater nation because their technology was all based on Western inventions? That all their progress would be no where without western industry, so we can dismiss them being technologically advanced at all?

You already acknowledge that Iron Horde industrialized their military. Industrialization defines their state of technology. It doesn't matter where that technology derived from, since their technological prowess is defined by what they are capable of achieving and producing, not by what they invented. Just like how every nation that possessed nuclear power is defined by having access to that tech, regardless of whether they personally invented it or not.

Just like Goblins adapting Titan tech for themselves will inevitable shape that level of ingenuity to be a trait of their culture; we would understand them being advanced enough to reverse engineering Titan Tech. Here, you're not even giving the Iron Horde the credit of reverse engineering the Goblin tech for Iron Stars to create the full breadth of war machines that they have today. All of that based on blueprints for the Iron Star.

[Teriz]

So would you say Japan is still a backwater nation because their technology was all based on Western inventions? That all their progress would be no where without western industry, so we can dismiss them being technologically advanced at all?

You already acknowledge that Iron Horde industrialized their military. Industrialization defines their state of technology. It doesn't matter where that technology derived from, since their technological prowess is defined by what they are capable of achieving and producing, not by what they invented. Just like how every nation that possessed nuclear power is defined by having access to that tech, regardless of whether they personally invented it or not.

Just like Goblins adapting Titan tech for themselves will inevitable shape that level of ingenuity to be a trait of their culture; we would understand them being advanced enough to reverse engineering Titan Tech. Here, you're not even giving the Iron Horde the credit of reverse engineering the Goblin tech for Iron Stars to create the full breadth of war machines that they have today. All of that based on blueprints for the Iron Star.

This really isn't a topic worth delving into since it's grossly off-topic. The point is that the Mag'har and other orcs aren't living in industrial cities or driving cars on highways like the Goblins did/are. Yet Goblins are on the Horde, a faction largely defined by primitive and tribal elements. We could spread this further and include the Blood Elves and the Nightborne also not really fitting the Horde aesthetic. Thus, there shouldn't be an issue with Forest trolls being on the Alliance.

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Those marked with a circle are melee abilities.

And yet all three Hunter specs were RDPS until Survival went melee in Legion.

[Ielenia]

And yet all three Hunter specs were RDPS until Survival went melee in Legion.

Actually, like the other poster said, Survival Hunter was quite the mix of melee and ranged abilities. As a fact, It was most definitely not, like you said:

prior to Legion was entirely RDPS.

[Triceron]

This really isn't a topic worth delving into since it's grossly off-topic. The point is that the Mag'har and other orcs aren't living in industrial cities or driving cars on highways like the Goblins did/are. Yet Goblins are on the Horde, a faction largely defined by primitive and tribal elements. We could spread this further and include the Blood Elves and the Nightborne also not really fitting the Horde aesthetic. Thus, there shouldn't be an issue with Forest trolls being on the Alliance.

They are still using War Machines as shown in BFA, which they created and brought over from Draenor.

So they may not be in industrialized cities or have highways, but they still have their 'cars' and have been showed using them in the Battle for Azeroth.

And it's never mattered if the Horde is defined by tribal elements, because they have also been defined by having access to technology. Blood Elves, Forsaken and Nightborne tech all defines the Horde too, and you can't separate them from the faction any more than you can separate the ingredients out of a cake. They're all baked into the faction identity.

Effectively, you confused 'Horde aesthetic' with 'Orc aesthetic', and Orc building designs are not a reflection of their full faction identity. The primitive look you are referring to is literally just an aesthetic. Much like a person choosing to wear clothing made of leather or cloth does not make a statement that they are not suited for Plate Armor. You are merely talking aesthetics of buildings in a specific region.


You can say they are tribalistic and primitive, but I think you also fail to realize there are more Mages and Priests accessible in the Horde now than Shamans. Times have changed, and your perspective hasnt kept up with the times.

There is no true Horde aesthetic. The aesthetics are specific to the racial cultures. Orgrimmar is predominantly Orcish, just as Silvermoon is predominantly Elven. The Horde Garrison favors Orcish aesthetics, and that is how it is regarded. We dont call it Horde aesthetics any more than that term would apply to Silvermoon as a Horde city.

[Teriz]

Actually, like the other poster said, Survival Hunter was quite the mix of melee and ranged abilities. As a fact, It was most definitely not, like you said:

Semantics. The point is that Survival was an RDPS spec, and Hunter players were quite upset when it became MDPS.

[username993720]

Except they didn't. The Orc clans who formed the Iron Horde utilized Goblin technology, and in some cases they repurposed the Iron Star to make their own contraptions, but in no way are the Mag'har a technological race. They're a more primitive and back to basics Orc race.

"The foundation of all Iron Horde technology is the iron star: a primitive, coal-fired centrifugal engine which can be used to turn wheels, belts, and chains, allowing for the construction of crude vehicles and siege weapons including tanks, cannons, and chariots. It was initially used as a massive rolling bomb designed to wipe out whole legions with its explosive power, and was unleashed against the Dwarven invaders under Moira by Siegecrafter Blackfuse, and later against the adventurers during their fight with Garrosh. It's this weapon that Garrosh smuggled to the alternate Draenor, and that was redesigned as an engine. However, it is still frequently used as a weapon as well. Many Iron Horde soldiers, mostly from the Blackrock clan, were also trained how to use firearms and explosives.

Solog Roark was responsible for the construction of the Iron Fleet and Iron Docks.

They frequently made use of iron capsules; armored spherical cages that could be occupied by several orcs at once, even dire orcs, to deliver soldiers swiftly to the front lines."

And the entire time Garrosh was in charge people were comparing him to Thrall, and Thrall became a dragon aspect. Thrall came back literally in the next expansion to depose Garrosh. It happened again when it came time to depose Sylvanas. Thrall is the center concept of the faction. Anytime it veers away from that center, Thrall is brought back into the narrative to drag the Horde back to him.

The guy is barely a shadow of his former self, when he was Warchief.

We don't have two different versions of them. One is a color swap for Darkspear, the other is the actual Farakki tribe. The actual Farakki tribe is independent of the Horde and look very different from Jungle Trolls.

Jungle Trolls don't have sandy colors in lore.

Uh no. The Hunter class prior to Legion was entirely RDPS. That was their role.

Also pretty much every ranged class has melee auto-attacks and a melee ranged knockback.

Minimum range was dropped in Mists.

[Teriz]

Effectively, you confused 'Horde aesthetic' with 'Orc aesthetic', and Orc building designs are not a reflection of their full faction identity. The primitive look you are referring to is literally just an aesthetic. Much like a person choosing to wear clothing made of leather or cloth does not make a statement that they are not suited for Plate Armor. You are merely talking aesthetics of buildings in a specific region.

Which was never my argument. My argument was that while the Horde in general is based on primitive and tribal aesthetics, it also has non primitive and tribal races like Blood Elves, Nightborne, and Goblins. Thus, the Alliance which is generally based on standard Medieval European aesthetics can house a primitive tribal race like the Amani, since they also have races that buck that trend like Draenei, Worgen, and Gnomes.

[Ielenia]

Semantics.

Don't try to shift blame away from your failure to communicate. It's not "semantics".

[Teriz]

The guy is barely a shadow of his former self, when he was Warchief.

That literally has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Jungle Trolls don't have sandy colors in lore.

And Jungle Trolls aren't Sand trolls in lore. In canon, those troll groups were divided since the Sundering.

Minimum range was dropped in Mists.

Again, nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Prior to Mist, Hunters were still RDPS despite being able to auto attack in melee. And once again, all ranged classes (Except Hunters now) have melee auto-attacks.

[Triceron]

Which was never my argument. My argument was that while the Horde in general is based on primitive and tribal aesthetics, it also has non primitive and tribal races like Blood Elves, Nightborne, and Goblins. Thus, the Alliance which is generally based on standard Medieval European aesthetics can house a primitive tribal race like the Amani, since they also have races that buck that trend like Draenei, Worgen, and Gnomes.

Maghar are also considered non primitive considering they actively make use of technology. Even if they prefer to commune with nature, that does not make their culture primitive. They embrace both tradition and industry.

I have no conflict with the rest of your messaging, it's the specific outlook on 'Horde aesthetics' which I think you're confusing specific racial cultures with. The 'Horde' identity grows with each race added to them, and that includes all the misfits including neutrals like Pandaren, Dracthyr, Death Knights, Demon Hunters and Earthen. There is no singular 'Horde aesthetic', the closest you can point to is the predominant Orcish aesthetics which is often used to represent the Horde. Similar to how Human aesthetics are predominantly used to represent the Alliance, but is otherwise not really considered the 'Alliance aesthetic' outside of a very loose application of the term.

[Ielenia]

Also pretty much every ranged class has melee auto-attacks and a melee ranged knockback.

Having a melee auto-attack does not mean the class is "mixed with melee". Also:
• Mages do not have a melee knockback.
• Warlocks do not have a melee knockback.
• Priests do not have a melee knockback.
• Shamans do not have a melee knockback.

[Teriz]

Maghar are also considered non primitive considering they actively make use of technology. Even if they prefer to commune with nature, that does not make their culture primitive. They embrace both tradition and industry.

I have no conflict with the rest of your messaging, it's the specific outlook on 'Horde aesthetics' which I think you're confusing specific racial cultures with. The 'Horde' identity grows with each race added to them, and that includes all the misfits including neutrals like Pandaren, Dracthyr, Death Knights, Demon Hunters and Earthen. There is no singular 'Horde aesthetic', the closest you can point to is the predominant Orcish aesthetics which is often used to represent the Horde. Similar to how Human aesthetics are predominantly used to represent the Alliance, but is otherwise not really considered the 'Alliance aesthetic' outside of a very loose application of the term.

I'm talking more along the original core races of the WC3/WoW Horde that was mainly made up of Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren. That generally formed the more tribal/savage aesthetic of the faction. Meanwhile, the Alliance in WC3/WoW consisted mainly of Humans, Dwarves, and (High) Elves. That formed the more medieval aesthetic of the faction.

Clearly over time as more races are added, those aesthetics have begun to fade, and pretty much any race can be either faction at this point, which strengthens the possibility for something like a Shadow Hunter to occur. We have Elves on the Horde, there should be no issue having Trolls on the Alliance.

[shade3891]

I like it!!