[Concept] World of Warcraft: Path of Honor

[username993720]

Crimson Ring being an -illegal- group definitely means slavery isn't legal.

"The practice of slavery has historically existed in orc society, and while in modern times it seems to occur less, the practice still continues among some orcs, though it is unclear how widespread it is. Despite Thrall's work to ensure that no orc would be cast into slavery ever again, a small number of orcs have been found enslaved by other orcs in the Horde, for example Bloodeye Redfist. It appears that some orcs are also willing to enslave members of other races, both Horde and Alliance. Many of these slaves were however once criminals who were brought to justice. It is unclear why the orcs still allow slavery, and to what extent, or why they choose to ignore it.

"Okrilla at Dreadmaul Hold in the Blasted Lands, enslaved some of the ogres of the Dreadmaul tribe after recapturing the old orc city."

"Goblin Trade Princes have enslaved trolls for mining, although they seek to keep this low key."

"The blood elf tailors of Silvermoon use slave leper gnomes for work."

"The Forsaken captured the villagers of Emberstone and used them as slaves."

"Gerard Abernathy made Theresa his mindslave by lobotomizing her brain."

"During the war on the alternate Draenor, the orcs of the Iron Horde and their ogre allies of the Gorian Empire enslaved draenei and arakkoa."

"During the Alliance-Horde war, the Boulderslide kobolds of Stonetalon Mountains were subjugated by Horde forces to counter the Alliance-Grimtotem tribe partnership in the area."

"Before becoming Thrall's adviser, Rehgar was a successful gladiator slave master who "owned" Varian Wrynn while he was suffering from amnesia."

"Ettin -The Forsaken have managed to subjugate and utilize some of ettins to haul their wagons through Silverpine Forest."

"Black dragons - The Dragonmaw have enslaved members of the Black Dragonflight to serve them as mounts."

"Magnataur - Garrosh domesticated many by holding their young hostage."

"Kraken - Garrosh used eight kraken to defend Bladefist Bay from an Alliance naval assault."

[Skytotem]

"The practice of slavery has historically existed in orc society, and while in modern times it seems to occur less, the practice still continues among some orcs, though it is unclear how widespread it is. Despite Thrall's work to ensure that no orc would be cast into slavery ever again, a small number of orcs have been found enslaved by other orcs in the Horde, for example Bloodeye Redfist. It appears that some orcs are also willing to enslave members of other races, both Horde and Alliance. Many of these slaves were however once criminals who were brought to justice. It is unclear why the orcs still allow slavery, and to what extent, or why they choose to ignore it.

"Okrilla at Dreadmaul Hold in the Blasted Lands, enslaved some of the ogres of the Dreadmaul tribe after recapturing the old orc city."

"Goblin Trade Princes have enslaved trolls for mining, although they seek to keep this low key."

"The blood elf tailors of Silvermoon use slave leper gnomes for work."

"The Forsaken captured the villagers of Emberstone and used them as slaves."

"Gerard Abernathy made Theresa his mindslave by lobotomizing her brain."

"During the war on the alternate Draenor, the orcs of the Iron Horde and their ogre allies of the Gorian Empire enslaved draenei and arakkoa."

"During the Alliance-Horde war, the Boulderslide kobolds of Stonetalon Mountains were subjugated by Horde forces to counter the Alliance-Grimtotem tribe partnership in the area."

"Before becoming Thrall's adviser, Rehgar was a successful gladiator slave master who "owned" Varian Wrynn while he was suffering from amnesia."

"Ettin -The Forsaken have managed to subjugate and utilize some of ettins to haul their wagons through Silverpine Forest."

"Black dragons - The Dragonmaw have enslaved members of the Black Dragonflight to serve them as mounts."

"Magnataur - Garrosh domesticated many by holding their young hostage."

"Kraken - Garrosh used eight kraken to defend Bladefist Bay from an Alliance naval assault."

Which is all abominable and shouldn't have been possible after Thrall, former slave, was warchief. It's a glaring plothole.

[Clone]

Something being illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[The-Shan]

Who said it'd equate them as the same? They'd just share the same landmass. You're clearly ignoring all the Japanese themes being used in Chinese MoP. What, was that not offensive?

Listen, Pandaria is meant to represent asia. Yes, mainly china. But, other cultures as well. It has japanese, mongolian, cambodian, tibetan and other influences. What, would you say Blizzard confused them with the chinese? Pandaria was never meant to be just chinese. Since japan drew a lot of inspiration from the chinese, it makes for a perfect setting to a japanese expansion.

Its just weird because its lumping them where they weren't before, when I think Japanese culture is big enough and interesting enough to fill its own landmass. I'm the first person who would say "do more with the existing continents!" but not in this case. Japanese themes weren't there then, having them just spring up now would feel forced, like all asian themes HAVE to be confined to pandaria and can't spring up elsewhere. I just think an island chain near pandaria would be far more interesting in this case.

[username993720]

Which is all abominable and shouldn't have been possible after Thrall, former slave, was warchief. It's a glaring plothole.

This is a video game, not real life.
Even the Iron Horde which declared "we will never be slaves", used slaves.

Its just weird because its lumping them where they weren't before, when I think Japanese culture is big enough and interesting enough to fill its own landmass. I'm the first person who would say "do more with the existing continents!" but not in this case. Japanese themes weren't there then, having them just spring up now would feel forced, like all asian themes HAVE to be confined to pandaria and can't spring up elsewhere. I just think an island chain near pandaria would be far more interesting in this case.

Weren't there?

"The various peoples of Pandaria and their history are a composite, re-interpretation, and parody of mostly Chinese history and mythology, Japanese history and mythology, and some themes common East Asian mythology generally, with some other sporadic sources like other fictional universes."

"The Golden Lotus may be a combination of the Japanese Tokugawa shogunate symbol, in combination with the White Lotus movement"

"The Shado-Pan's history against the Mogu, Sha, and Mantid, suspicion of outsiders, being founded by Emperor Shaohao style of combat, tactics, and clothes resemble depictions of Japanese ninja (and their depiction in manga/anime like Naruto) in combination with visual motifs from the Red Turban Rebellion that led to the defeat of the last Mongol dynasty of China, parallel to the Pandaren revolution against the Mogu."

"Mogu are inspired by Chinese, Japanese, and Mongolian cultural elements."

"The inspiration behind Mogu are likely a combination of Chinese Mogwai/Mogui and Japanese Oni."

"The August Celestials are based upon the Four Symbols of Chinese mythology. The Four Symbols are also common to Japan, and other nearby cultures."

"Culturally, the jinyu share many elements with Japanese cultural themes, such as Satay Byu's being a "Jinja" (ninja) and various samurai motifs."

"The isolation of Pandaria is likely based on the isolationist policies of Ming dynasty China or perhaps the Sakoku isolationist policy of the Japanese Tokugawa shongunate."

[Skytotem]

This is a video game, not real life.

What are you trying to say there? What does that have to do with the believability of the narrative and the flavor of the Horde as 'scrappy underdogs' not 'evil tyrants'?

[username993720]

What are you trying to say there? What does that have to do with the believability of the narrative and the flavor of the Horde as 'scrappy underdogs' not 'evil tyrants'?

That's not what you're trying to convey.
You're clearly upset about slavery being depicted.

[Skytotem]

That's not what you're trying to convey.
You're clearly upset about slavery being depicted.

It's exactly what I'm trying to convey, you don't know what's in my head any better than I do pal.

You're just one of the folks that want the horde to be edgy and stupid evil even if it makes no goddamned sense, and actively makes the horde look like idiots.

[The-Shan]

This is a video game, not real life.
Even the Iron Horde which declared "we will never be slaves", used slaves.



Weren't there?

"The various peoples of Pandaria and their history are a composite, re-interpretation, and parody of mostly Chinese history and mythology, Japanese history and mythology, and some themes common East Asian mythology generally, with some other sporadic sources like other fictional universes."

"The Golden Lotus may be a combination of the Japanese Tokugawa shogunate symbol, in combination with the White Lotus movement"

"The Shado-Pan's history against the Mogu, Sha, and Mantid, suspicion of outsiders, being founded by Emperor Shaohao style of combat, tactics, and clothes resemble depictions of Japanese ninja (and their depiction in manga/anime like Naruto) in combination with visual motifs from the Red Turban Rebellion that led to the defeat of the last Mongol dynasty of China, parallel to the Pandaren revolution against the Mogu."

"Mogu are inspired by Chinese, Japanese, and Mongolian cultural elements."

"The inspiration behind Mogu are likely a combination of Chinese Mogwai/Mogui and Japanese Oni."

"The August Celestials are based upon the Four Symbols of Chinese mythology. The Four Symbols are also common to Japan, and other nearby cultures."

"Culturally, the jinyu share many elements with Japanese cultural themes, such as Satay Byu's being a "Jinja" (ninja) and various samurai motifs."

"The isolation of Pandaria is likely based on the isolationist policies of Ming dynasty China or perhaps the Sakoku isolationist policy of the Japanese Tokugawa shongunate."

Chinese and Japanese culture having some crossovers is different than them being one and the same. MoP is 70% chinese, 15% other asian influences, 15% alliance/horde warcraft stuff. I think they can better service the desire for Japanese content with new lands, rather than trying to reinvent Pandaria. If Pandaria is revisited, I want it to be revisited for what made it great in the first place, not for it to be reinvented, just like I'd be annoyed if they did Quel'thalas/Midnight but decided to fundamentally reinvent what Quel'thalas is, instead of enriching what is already there, deepening it.

[Eldryth]

Jinyu's counterpart is the Hozen.



How come?




And, it's not about the Pandaren, it's about the Mogu.
It just uses Pandaria as the setting.

It could be cool, but it's so drastically different from the Pandaria we already got that it would effectively be rewriting the whole setting. Let Pandaria be Pandaria, it's better to just expand the world than replacing an existing region.

Yes, alongside Cambodian (Khmer).
That's why i chose them to teach the other races the way of the Blademaster.

And this I definitely disagree with. Blademasters already have a really cool origin that hasn't been represented well in any game yet- they're fundamentally tied to Burning Blade Orcs striving for redemption. Separating them from that, and the Orcish culture it comes from, really cheapens the concept. By all means, let all races learn to be one (much like Monks), but it really should come from the Burning Blade. I'd say Samuro should just rebuild the Burning Blade with whatever heroes, of any race, want to join and become Blademasters. And maybe have a conflict with Lantresor, the presumed chieftain who wants to just let the clan die out.

[Kathranis]

There's a reason most of the Japanese influence was pulled out of the pandaren: because it was done largely by Samwise Didier, an ignorant American who didn't make distinctions between East Asian cultures. That's why they scrapped the original samurai-themed armor concept for the pandaren brewmaster, which for some reason you keep neglecting to mention despite reposting it multiple times.



Japan and China have a history of enmity resulting from numerous invasions and war crimes going back hundreds of years, hostility that persists because the Japanese government still largely denies the role it played in atrocities committed in the Sino-Japanese wars. Japanese and Chinese people also generally do not appreciate it when Westerners create inauthentic settings that ape generic "Asian" themes or jumble together aesthetics and tropes in fiction.

Pandas are native to China, and are a cultural symbol of China. China also accounts for one of the largest segments of WoW's audience.

This idea is a no go. Plain and simple.


If you wanted to do a Japanese setting you'd absolutely be better off doing it as a new landmass near Avaloren. Dialogue in Hallowfall indicates that the Arathi Empire is massive and colonial, having conquered an entire continent and expanded into other territories where military might is used to suppress dissent. There's no reason that you have to restrict the hemisphere to just being one continent dominated by one monoculture.

There are other tribes descended from the jinyu, including the ankoan who have actual Japanese theming and already have Blademasters. The Arathi in Hallowfall are beset by the kobyss that live in the Undersea, and those are an ankoan offshoot that used to war with the naga, so it would be easy to expand on that narrative thread.

You could do a Japanese-themed area with new races that are actually inspired by Japanese ecology and culture, instead of piggybacking on Chinese tropes established in Pandaria. Japan has its own native species and legendary creatures, a history of nature worship, and a deep well of mythology including a pantheon centered around solar and lunar deities and popular folklore concerning celestial beings that dwell on the moon. All things that would lend themselves well to the Warcraft setting.


You could go a step further than even that and have various new continents and islands of which Avaloren is simply the largest, with the Arathi Empire being bent on conquest and expansion in the name of the Light. You could incorporate other elements of European history like the Age of Discovery, the Spanish Inquisition, War of the Roses, the British Empire, etc. and the way that influenced other parts of the world.

You could do India, and the massive amount of mythology and cosmology wrapped up in Hinduism and Buddhism, plus their own history under colonial rule. Maybe that's where you tie in the naga, which are derived from Hindu mythology. Maybe they were able to expand beyond the Storming Sea by traversing the deep ocean currents.


There's just so much more you could do there rather than trying to rework Pandaria into something that it isn't and frankly shouldn't be.

[username993720]

It's exactly what I'm trying to convey, you don't know what's in my head any better than I do pal.

You're just one of the folks that want the horde to be edgy and stupid evil even if it makes no goddamned sense, and actively makes the horde look like idiots.

I want a Horde, not a mirrored Alliance. I want meat, not soy beans.

Chinese and Japanese culture having some crossovers is different than them being one and the same. MoP is 70% chinese, 15% other asian influences, 15% alliance/horde warcraft stuff. I think they can better service the desire for Japanese content with new lands, rather than trying to reinvent Pandaria. If Pandaria is revisited, I want it to be revisited for what made it great in the first place, not for it to be reinvented, just like I'd be annoyed if they did Quel'thalas/Midnight but decided to fundamentally reinvent what Quel'thalas is, instead of enriching what is already there, deepening it.

Never claimed they are one of the same.
I don't want them to reinvent a plethora of new places when we've got established ones already. You do realize i use almost 70% of Pandaria for the concept? What, you want them to copy paste Pandaria into a different continent and market it as new?
What do you think they're gonna do with Northrend? Keep it the same scandinavian land or, now that it is focused on the Titans, make it perhaps more greek?

It could be cool, but it's so drastically different from the Pandaria we already got that it would effectively be rewriting the whole setting. Let Pandaria be Pandaria, it's better to just expand the world than replacing an existing region.

How is it massively different? It uses the same places and the same inhabitants only with some tweaks and changes. That's what a revamp is.

And this I definitely disagree with. Blademasters already have a really cool origin that hasn't been represented well in any game yet- they're fundamentally tied to Burning Blade Orcs striving for redemption. Separating them from that, and the Orcish culture it comes from, really cheapens the concept. By all means, let all races learn to be one (much like Monks), but it really should come from the Burning Blade. I'd say Samuro should just rebuild the Burning Blade with whatever heroes, of any race, want to join and become Blademasters. And maybe have a conflict with Lantresor, the presumed chieftain who wants to just let the clan die out.

That's why i didn't leave them out.
We can't have an orcish expansion again, based on Draenor or something, to introduce the Blademaster. Even though the concept is, originally, orcish, they are barely japanese and Draenor is barely asiatic.

There's a reason most of the Japanese influence was pulled out of the pandaren: because it was done largely by Samwise Didier, an ignorant American who didn't make distinctions between East Asian cultures. That's why they scrapped the original samurai-themed armor concept for the pandaren brewmaster, which for some reason you keep neglecting to mention despite reposting it multiple times.

Japan and China have a history of enmity resulting from numerous invasions and war crimes going back hundreds of years, hostility that persists because the Japanese government still largely denies the role it played in atrocities committed in the Sino-Japanese wars. Japanese and Chinese people also generally do not appreciate it when Westerners create inauthentic settings that ape generic "Asian" themes or jumble together aesthetics and tropes in fiction.

Pandas are native to China, and are a cultural symbol of China. China also accounts for one of the largest segments of WoW's audience.

This idea is a no go. Plain and simple.

I know all that.
And yet, japan was heavily influenced by chinese buddhism, which in turn is borrowed from india.

If you wanted to do a Japanese setting you'd absolutely be better off doing it as a new landmass near Avaloren. Dialogue in Hallowfall indicates that the Arathi Empire is massive and colonial, having conquered an entire continent and expanded into other territories where military might is used to suppress dissent. There's no reason that you have to restrict the hemisphere to just being one continent dominated by one monoculture.

What does Avaloren have to do with japan?

There are other tribes descended from the jinyu, including the ankoan who have actual Japanese theming and already have Blademasters. The Arathi in Hallowfall are beset by the kobyss that live in the Undersea, and those are an ankoan offshoot that used to war with the naga, so it would be easy to expand on that narrative thread.

I didn't want an underwater expansion.

You could do a Japanese-themed area with new races that are actually inspired by Japanese ecology and culture, instead of piggybacking on Chinese tropes established in Pandaria. Japan has its own native species and legendary creatures, a history of nature worship, and a deep well of mythology including a pantheon centered around solar and lunar deities and popular folklore concerning celestial beings that dwell on the moon. All things that would lend themselves well to the Warcraft setting.

That's what i did.
The fact the the chinese and japanese share many cultural influences makes pandaria a perfect setting. How do you think i managed to reuse so many pandaria themes in my concept?

You could go a step further than even that and have various new continents and islands of which Avaloren is simply the largest, with the Arathi Empire being bent on conquest and expansion in the name of the Light. You could incorporate other elements of European history like the Age of Discovery, the Spanish Inquisition, War of the Roses, the British Empire, etc. and the way that influenced other parts of the world.

Why the hell would i want that? It's a japanese expansion, not a western one.

You could do India, and the massive amount of mythology and cosmology wrapped up in Hinduism and Buddhism, plus their own history under colonial rule. Maybe that's where you tie in the naga, which are derived from Hindu mythology. Maybe they were able to expand beyond the Storming Sea by traversing the deep ocean currents.

That's for another expansion entirely. It has nothing to do with the Blademaster.

There's just so much more you could do there rather than trying to rework Pandaria into something that it isn't and frankly shouldn't be.

The closest thing is using Kaldorei lands, as the Night elves are mostly japanese. But, i can't see how a Kalimdor expansion would feature the Blademaster, or even encompass half of the things on my concept.

[Eldryth]

I want a Horde, not a mirrored Alliance. I want meat, not soy beans.

The Horde should be very different from the Alliance, but it should also follow the ideals that the New Horde supposedly embodies. They're supposed to value honor and freedom above all else- values that are completely incompatible with slavery.

Of course, losing those values is nothing new- they've completely abandoned them several times throughout WoW to create villains for faction war expansions. The Alliance and Horde are supposed to be different kinds of heroes, with their own flaws- it shouldn't be a matter of simple good vs. evil, but that is very much what it has become at this point. But the writers should fix those mistakes, not embrace them.

And that's one more reason I think that Blademasters should focus on the Burning Blade, not just give them a token presence- their existing story makes them the champions of the ideals that the Horde lost throughout WoW. They should be the embodiment of Orcish honor and freedom, restoring those lost values to the Horde. And of course, other races should get access to them, but it should absolutely use Orcish themes (just as Druids, Monks, and Paladins use Night Elven, Pandaren, and Alliance themes respectively despite being available to many races). If they don't, then they'd lose a big part of what makes Blademasters interesting.

How is it massively different? It uses the same places and the same inhabitants only with some tweaks and changes. That's what a revamp is.

That's what i did.
The fact the the chinese and japanese share many cultural influences makes pandaria a perfect setting. How do you think i managed to reuse so many pandaria themes in my concept?

The main issue here is that you didn't, and completely replacing the culture of a region (you're drastically overestimating how much Japanese culture would fit with the established Pandaria- it's not that similar to the existing Chinese-inspired setting) will always go beyond "some tweaks and changes". Most of your suggestions just reuse a zone's name and completely rewrites what that zone actually is and replaces its inhabitants with completely new races. Only your Townlong actually resembles the existing Pandaria.

[username993720]

The Horde should be very different from the Alliance, but it should also follow the ideals that the New Horde supposedly embodies. They're supposed to value honor and freedom above all else- values that are completely incompatible with slavery.

That honorable Horde is bullshit. We've seen so multiple times as you've mentioned below. It's an excuse.

Of course, losing those values is nothing new- they've completely abandoned them several times throughout WoW to create villains for faction war expansions. The Alliance and Horde are supposed to be different kinds of heroes, with their own flaws- it shouldn't be a matter of simple good vs. evil, but that is very much what it has become at this point. But the writers should fix those mistakes, not embrace them.

Why automatically brand them as evil? What if they don't view this as evilness, but a way of life?

And that's one more reason I think that Blademasters should focus on the Burning Blade, not just give them a token presence- their existing story makes them the champions of the ideals that the Horde lost throughout WoW. They should be the embodiment of Orcish honor and freedom, restoring those lost values to the Horde. And of course, other races should get access to them, but it should absolutely use Orcish themes (just as Druids, Monks, and Paladins use Night Elven, Pandaren, and Alliance themes respectively despite being available to many races). If they don't, then they'd lose a big part of what makes Blademasters interesting.

Did you miss the part where i listed Orcish Blademaster abilities like Mirror Image, Bladestorm, Wind Walk and Blazegreaze?

Anyway, the Orcish Blademasters are furthest from being honorable. They used to consume demonic blood. Even in real life, Samurais were not really honorable. The honor talked about, either in real-life or in-game, is more like respect among gang members. The more you kill, the more respect you get. If someone tarnished your reputation, you'd have to deal with them. It's not about being merciful or fair.

The main issue here is that you didn't, and completely replacing the culture of a region (you're drastically overestimating how much Japanese culture would fit with the established Pandaria- it's not that similar to the existing Chinese-inspired setting) will always go beyond "some tweaks and changes". Most of your suggestions just reuse a zone's name and completely rewrites what that zone actually is and replaces its inhabitants with completely new races. Only your Townlong actually resembles the existing Pandaria.

What's the point of making it completely the same?
Would you consider it a sucessful revamp if you just experienced Pandaria again as it was in MoP?

[Skytotem]

I want a Horde, not a mirrored Alliance. I want meat, not soy beans.

If the only thing separating the Horde from the Alliance is that the Horde must employ gleefully evil slavery, then that says a lot more about you than anything else in the game's flavor.

[username993720]

If the only thing separating the Horde from the Alliance is that the Horde must employ gleefully evil slavery, then that says a lot more about you than anything else in the game's flavor.

The Horde shouldn't adhere to political correctness.

[Triceron]

"The various peoples of Pandaria and their history are a composite, re-interpretation, and parody of mostly Chinese history and mythology, Japanese history and mythology, and some themes common East Asian mythology generally, with some other sporadic sources like other fictional universes."

---

The Pandaren Brewmaster was originally japanese:

The problem here is that Pandaria itself, and the Pandaren culture, are heavily centered around Chinese culture. Japanese culture appears, but is not anywhere equivalent or even swappable in terms of culture. All we can really say is that there is some overlap in influences.

It doesn't mean we can suddenly start throwing Japanese culture into Pandaria directly by incorporating Samurai and Ninjas and Godzilla just because there happens to be some Japanese influence in that setting. The cultures are still too divergent to be considered the same, especially in sharing the same landmass to perpetuate an entire expansion for an entirely new culture. We've explored Pandaria, we know what already exists there. There's little room to suddenly give rise to a host of new Japanese-inspired races that aren't already native to Pandaria. Same way that Zandalar's particular races like Sethekk and Vulpera exist on the unexplored Zandalar continent, rather than be races that are seeded into existing Troll-dominant continent like Stranglethorn, which they are not native to.


I would suggest changing the setting to a Pandaria inspired setting in a completely new location, much like how the Wandering Isles exist. Because that runs an actual parallel to Japan being a separate nation from China as well. Historically, Japanese people were very likely to be Chinese (or influenced by Chinese) settlers who emigrated to the islands, bringing aspects of their culture with them. And while China went in one direction through an evolution of culture, Japan extrapolated the culture of the settlers, creating something entirely different.

I would probably suggest having a completely new setting that is merely inspired by Pandaria, not be Pandaria itself. Places that were influenced by Pandarens, but not inhabited by them. Like a new island or continent that has Bamboo forests seeded by Pandaren explorers who briefly settled there, or maybe even another Wandering Isle-like place that exists on the back of a different turtle or creature. A new setting can make use of the same biomes and architecture we've seen from Pandaria, while exploring all new races like the Itachi, Tengu, Tanuki or other Japanese inspired races like Kitsune (multi-tailed offshoot of Vulpera).

I would also suggest making Mogu into offshoot subrace, into actual Oni or Yokai that split off culturally from the Mogu. That would probably fit the setting and style better than just adapting Mogu straight up. The Mogu may be visually based on Oni, but the race itself is completely rooted in Mongolian culture. Having a subrace with a different culture and name would be better suited, the way the Drust are not the same as the Vrykul, they are a vrykul subrace with very specific name and culture. It gives a lot more room to explore a different culture without muddling it with a pre-existing one.



Here's one example of a story hook:
- Pandaren Explorers set off on the Wandering Isle
- The explorers carry their cultural teachings and spread them to other races they encounter
- The Wandering Isle briefly makes a stop on a new continent/island, briefly settling for a few months
- The Pandaren find a fledgling race under threat of extinction. The Pandaren save them, and teach them to defend themselves. The new race is awe-inspired by their saviours, and take up their teachings.
- The new race adapts the teachings to their own, evolving into a Japanese inspired culture
- The new race develops a Samurai-like culture, with a strong warrior code and a focus on zen
- Due to the Wandering Isle being on the move, the new race is unable to keep in contact with Pandarens
- At one point in time, the new race (magically) travels to Draenor, and they encounter the Burning Blade clan.
- The Burning Blade clan learns their fighting and weapon-smithing techniques from the new race

And we can say we just never knew of this origin because the race lived in seclusion, and are a mere 'blip' in Warcraft's vast history.

[username993720]

The problem here is that Pandaria itself, and the Pandaren culture, are heavily centered around Chinese culture. Japanese culture appears, but is not anywhere equivalent or even swappable in terms of culture. All we can really say is that there is some overlap in influences.

I was waiting for your comment

It doesn't mean we can suddenly start throwing Japanese culture into Pandaria directly by incorporating Samurai and Ninjas and Godzilla just because there happens to be some Japanese influence in that expansion. The cultures are still too divergent to be considered the same, and especially in sharing the same landmass to perpetuate an entire expansion.

You mean like this?

If anything, I would say change the setting to a Pandaria inspired setting in a completely new location, much like how the Wandering Isles exist. Because that runs an actual parallel to Japan being a separate nation from China as well. Historically, Japanese people were very likely to be Chinese (or influenced by Chinese) settlers who emigrated to the islands, bringing aspects of their culture with them. And while China went in one direction through an evolution of culture, Japan extrapolated the culture of the settlers, creating something entirely different. It's similar how American culture evolved and was born out of the original British colonies, to the point where they're similar but clearly not the same.


I would probably suggest having a completely new setting that is merely inspired by Pandaria, not be Pandaria itself. Places that were influenced by Pandarens. Like a new island or continent that has Bamboo forests seeded by Pandaren explorers who briefly settled there, or maybe even another Wandering Isle-like place that exists on the back of a different turtle or creature.

How do you explain the other Pandaria inhabitants featuring there, then?

Here's an example of a story hook:
- Pandaren Explorers set off on the Wandering Isle
- The explorers carry their cultural teachings and spread them to other races they encounter
- The Wandering Isle briefly makes a stop on a new continent/island, briefly settling for a few months
- The Pandaren find a fledgling race under threat of extinction. The Pandaren save them, and teach them to defend themselves. The new race is awe-inspired by their saviours, and take up their teachings.
- The new race adapts the teachings to their own, evolving into a Japanese inspired culture
- The new race develops a Samurai-like culture, with a strong warrior code and a focus on zen
- Due to the Wandering Isle being on the move, the new race is unable to keep in contact with Pandarens
- At one point in time, the new race (magically) travels to Draenor, and they encounter the Burning Blade clan.
- The Burning Blade clan learns their fighting and weapon-smithing techniques from the new race

And we can say we just never knew of this origin because the race lived in seclusion, and are a mere 'blip' in Warcraft's vast history.

What?
You lost me at "they magically appear in Draenor".

[Triceron]

How do you explain the other Pandaria inhabitants featuring there, then?

My point is Pandaria is already explored. Having new races suddenly pop up when we've already explored the continent doesn't make much sense. Most of the time we explore new continents, we encounter new races or offshoots of existing ones. Rarely do we re-explore an existing location with vastly new races suddenly introduced. The exception for exploring existing locations would be if there was a massive timeskip (AU Draenor) or some sort of event that changes the entire biome (Cataclysm shenanigans or BFA spilling Botani into Barrens).

It's similar to my example of adding Vulpera and Sethekk to Stranglethorn as if they've always been there. It wouldn't make as much sense as say coming across them as new races in a new environment, like Zandalar.


Is there any reason why it couldn't be a new continent that is merely inspired by Pandaren cultural roots?

You mean like this?

Regardless of his design, Taran Zhu's character is clearly rooted in Chinese culture.

And even then, I would say Taran Zhu's design isn't specific to any culture. The plate armor and scarf aren't specifically asian inspired, neither is the decoration of the spirit beads or the emblem on the straw hat. Those are all products of an artist taking creative liberties and just making stuff up.

He's as much of a mish-mash as the Three Storms are in Big Trouble in Little China. The designs are all loosely Asian inspired, with no specific culture in mind. Also similarly, I'd compare it to Raiden from Mortal Kombat, who is supposed to be inspired by (or actually be) the Japanese Thunder God, Raijin, but looks nothing like Raijin's traditional depiction. Instead, Raiden's design is based on, you guessed it, Big Trouble in Little China.

[Clone]

The Mogu may be visually based on Oni, but the race itself is completely rooted in Mongolian culture.

I'd say they are more based on the stone lion statues.