In your opinion, why is PvP decreasing in popularity

[Flaks]

PvP in an RPG where gear is a big factor isn't very appealing to new comers...

Having some DPS with 6+m HP attacking a person with 3-4m hp sure is fun!

Gear discrepancy/gearing issues are almost as non existent as they were when ilvl was normalized in legion.

I can literally be ilvl 632-634 before stepping into ANY instanced pvp not just rated because of how bloody tokens work now. The ilvl discrepancy between a full conquest player and a fresh level 80 who know they can gear through bloody tokens is literally 5-7 ilvl now.

[BlackRedGreenofc]

Easiest question ever.

This game isn't accessible to new players, there is too much to learn. Too much addons, too much mechanics. Too much time to invest in leveling.

That alone is enough to create such big barrier of entry. But also subscription fees, most competitive game that are successful are free. A lot of bad decisions over the years didn't help at all as well.

People play wow for PVE and raid, and nobody cares about it's Esport scene.

[Zalatoby]

The original fanbase are getting older, and Blizz is not really pulling in newer players to fill the ranks, and the old players are getting into a WAY more casual playset, not really doing much. Especially PvP.

I think...

[quaizar]

I've been a pvp main since mop. I venture into pve from time to time but for the most part I pvp. I've never been glad and my peak rating is 2395 so take that however you'd like.
Personally, I think they've done a decent job this expansion with balancing and making changes much more often than in past expansions. I think the gearing process, while at first could be confusing is fairly quick for alts which is great.
I've been fortunate to have a buddy to play with for several expansions on and off so at minimum we could do twos together. He recently has been taking a break so I've been on my own for most of this xpac.
The number one reason in my opinion that competitive pvp is decreasing in popularity is time. If i login and want to play arena I have two options. Sit in LFG or sit in SS/Blitz queue. My queue times currently on my main at 2100 is between 20-30 mins. I have two alts I'm playing and the queue time for them at around 1600-1900 mmr is around 15-20 mins. I've had many games especially at lower mmr that people leave after one or two rounds for whatever reason then I'm back in queue. So just not being able to actually play is my number one reason for considering leaving the game.
The number two reason that I think popularity is decreasing is rewards. Right now multi rank one players are still around 2400-2600 mmr meaning glad players are facing some of the best players in the world so climbing is very difficult. For my mmr its also very stagnant. Even SS is way behind blitz mmr currently (500+mmr difference for the very top players).

[Grinning Serpent]

Gear discrepancy/gearing issues are almost as non existent as they were when ilvl was normalized in legion.

I can literally be ilvl 632-634 before stepping into ANY instanced pvp not just rated because of how bloody tokens work now. The ilvl discrepancy between a full conquest player and a fresh level 80 who know they can gear through bloody tokens is literally 5-7 ilvl now.

Which means removing it would similarly make no real impact.

So that's what they should do.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

A big part of my serious pvp aversion is Addons. Unpopular opinion, but most of them have no place in PVP, especially rated. Addons that tell you when to interrupt, the enemies cooldowns and class spells, etc. It feels gross to use them but you're at a serious disadvantage if you don't. I do use some addons in general, information for collections, UI stuff etc. Addons like weakauras, DBM, Gladius, Omnibar etc all play the game for you essentially, taking much of the skill out of the game. There used to be an addon that would just say INTERRUPT NOW! and highlight your int when the enemy was casting like a strong offensive spell, a big heal, etc. Just gross.

Probably an unpopular opinion.

[ro9ue]

It's just way too complicated, and the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

[Flaks]

Which means removing it would similarly make no real impact.

So that's what they should do.

Completely disagree.

They did that with Legion and it was super annoying. Despite everything I'm still playing an RPG and being able to progress my character feels great. And no, just being able to progress my gear for pve while being able to obtain that gear from pvp is not enough.

The current system is a perfect compromise and I would not change a thing except allowing conquest boxes to be able to be bought a little earlier in the season.

[Grinning Serpent]

Completely disagree.

They did that with Legion and it was super annoying. Despite everything I'm still playing an RPG and being able to progress my character feels great. And no, just being able to progress my gear for pve while being able to obtain that gear from pvp is not enough.

The current system is a perfect compromise and I would not change a thing except allowing conquest boxes to be able to be bought a little earlier in the season.

You aren't progressing your character, though. By your own words, the stat difference in ilvl is inconsequential. It's the *illusion* of progress.

So just rip the bandaid off. Stop pretending, and stop letting lies get in the way of intelligent, rational design. Progress in PvP is your own development of skill and capability and your ladder progress.

[deenman]

2 things come to mind for me,the removal of resilience/pvp power,wile yes it may seem like it makes entry in to pvp easier,i think it may actualy be turning some people off by removing the more unique aspect of pvp and making pvp to bursty even with the insane health increases in TWW

and second the complexity of specs today,i played some arms warrior in wrath,you needed a bunch of macros to even be viable and yet it still felt easier than ret does these days(the easiest spec atm)

its kinda the same reason there are so few tanks these days specialy in m+,to much individual responsability,in pve specialy low level m+ and normal/hc raids you can get away with not interupting,not doing optimal dps,even messing up mecanics...but in pvp even at the bottom ratings,if you arent playing optimaly the climb i asume feels like hell,and the rewards dont seem worth it to me,all you are doing is going after a cosmetic elite set relisticaly for most people

[Syegfryed]

Balance is completely ass, some specs are just bad designed and awful to play, they take too long to fix things like huge gaps between specs and bugs properly

[mbit2]

The original fanbase are getting older, and Blizz is not really pulling in newer players to fill the ranks, and the old players are getting into a WAY more casual playset, not really doing much. Especially PvP.

I think...

pve aka m+/raids have higher hurdles than solo shuffle or 2v2 with a friend.
Quitting pvp you wont go into pve, you quit the game entirely.

For old tryhards now dads the meta is you play 1-2 weeks, get your elite set and leave because you cant afford the minimum time required to play well beyond a few weeks where you make an exception. Once you scale down to weekend warrior your bound to skip a weekend and over a 2 week break you back to beginner skill. Going on a loss streak because you don't remember how to play aint fun and you dont even really care anymore since you barely play so you quit entirely.

[Lochton]

Lack of flavour for it, in my opinion.

In ranked, the attitude of players - I don't care if I lose or win, I just can't be bothered listening to some raging person.

[Zalatoby]

pve aka m+/raids have higher hurdles than solo shuffle or 2v2 with a friend.
Quitting pvp you wont go into pve, you quit the game entirely.

For old tryhards now dads the meta is you play 1-2 weeks, get your elite set and leave because you cant afford the minimum time required to play well beyond a few weeks where you make an exception. Once you scale down to weekend warrior your bound to skip a weekend and over a 2 week break you back to beginner skill. Going on a loss streak because you don't remember how to play aint fun and you dont even really care anymore since you barely play so you quit entirely.

I said casual playset.

M+ and raids are not casual in my mind.

[Kralljin]

First there's the natural learning curve that any not extremely simplistic PvP game has.
Then there's the whole bunch of extremely unintuitive stuff (macros, focus, etc..), imagine telling a new player that it's advantageous to create an interrupt macro 3x times just for every Arena frame.
Furthermore, PvP does equate to PvP, random bg's are objective based, Arena is just killing the opponent, similar at a surface level but still very different and certain aspects don't translate 1:1.
Also, there's gearing.

Meanwhile, you log into any moba, hit the queue button and start playing.
If you want to play a PvP game, there are simply better alternatives out there.

[mbit2]

I said casual playset.

M+ and raids are not casual in my mind.

So what do you expect them to play?
If you enjoy pvp you in the i want challenge department and there is no other option to get challenge in pve.

[Raidoser]

I took advantage of the brawl event to farm some marks to unlock some old sets, since I don't really enjoy pvp.

I started thinking about how PvP is becoming more and more niche as time goes on. IMHO it's not really a problem with WoW, because I see the same even in other mmos, and I think the main reasons are ouside the game.

People migrated to MOBA first and then Hero shooters for PvP.

People not enjoying tab targeting interactions as before (see point 1)

PvP in MMO not as spectacular/sellable as other genres prevents them from gaining momentum.

Barrier to entry (both skill and gear) is an obstacle for getting new players.

Cost is also a significant barrier when people can consider f2p pvp games.

PvP in MMO is often condidered as a secondary priority compared to PvE, and is not balanced around it.

Huge lulls of content since there are no game modes, new classes, characters etc. to create hype. Seasons/patches can also be a downside if you liked the old tier set bonus more than the new tier set bonus.

Concerning point 7, rerolling it's much harder when you don't enjoy your class anymore.

Off the top of my head those are the main reasons, but I'm interested in reading other takes

You are out of touch if you didn't list "toxic community prone to abuse/harass and no self reflection".

Another thing is also most MMO tend to have a hard time getting new players (often because of the toxic reputations certains MMO have) so the departing players aren't getting replaced, in the two months since i've resubscribed i've yet to see anothers players in any zone except orgrimmar/Stormwind and khaz algar (and 90% of my time in wow is roaming the open world).

Today it's also common knowledge that MMO are the worst game (wow being the worst of the bunch) if you want to do serious pvp meaning serious players have migrated to others game type (MOBA are one example like you pointed out).

Addon aren't required to pvp correctly (except at gladiator rating) the only people using that argument are the same lowskill people who think addon are mandatory in M+, whatever allow these people to protect their ego and sleep at night i guess.

[Jinnobi]

PvP is decreasing AT THE MOMENT. I ask this respectfully and as maturely as I can: please do not try to make it seem like PvP is "dead" or "dying." It's on a temporarily decline -- a decline that can easily be reversed.

As for why? I think it's simple: no matter the format (1v1, 2v2, 3v3, mass 4v4) the same 2-3 classes are dominating. The worst offenders are Druids (Feral) and Hunters (Marksmen). Compare them to, say, popular damage classes like Ret Paladins -- a class which is routinely spanked and sent to the corner by both Feral Druids and MM Hunters. Or Arcane Mages, which absolutely destroy Ret Paladins, Arms and Fury Warriors, Death Knights, Shaman, etc.

I think the answer isn't a slew of nerfs; I think the answer lies in PvP talents specifically designed to give Rets, Arms, DKs, Enh Shaman, etc a fighting chance against their "counters" (e.g. Feral Druids, MM/BM Hunters, Mages, etc).

PvP talents open the door to PvP balance WITHOUT stepping on the toes of PvE balance. This is critical to the health of the game.
Hell, if necessary allow more than 3 PvP talents. Give each class 4 or even 5. That way, you can customize your character for PvP and not have to worry about throwing off PvE balance.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

That imbalance has been true every patch from the start of the game with a rotating cast of characters, it isn't new.

Blitz seems to have reinvigorated things a fair amount, but ultimately there just aren't that many people who play this game for pvp progression.

[heheszek]

I was about to write an huge text block about why its bad but

to sum up
they kinda fixed gearing and borrowing power systems problems we had for like several expansions

but

pvp gameplay pace/gcd impact, and damage dealers to Healers and Tanks power are just horrible, if there were no dampening in 2s matches would just never end.. even with huge skill gap...it tells a lot about the game
IN WHAT GAME high rated player just cant kill a guy who has like 0 clue how to play a game bust randomly press healing spells and survive its like huge question mark

I would love to see gameplay like TBC but with some tweaks and classes balance changes. Every gcd more meaningfull, every movement more meaningfull, tbh i like rng in tbc-but need some tweaks too

with sub model, game wont grow anyway

they made wow a game for:
1) collectors - the amount of stuff u can collect is just absurd(i think its started in legion or sth)
2) hardcore pve players - i dont pve but it seems like raids and m+ were always in a good spot??
3) casuals who can try a lot of game mods to have some non competitive fun
4) pvpers... and pvp just is bad kinda digestible kinda not