Isn't Classic era dead? If you are referring to Cata, anybody who liked Classic and TBC for the 222 rotations will hate Cata. Cata Hunters and all casters have the same rotational complexity and pace as anythig in retail. Melees don't have their GCD and spell CDs scaling with Haste until MoP, so those feel slightly slower paced, but the rotational complexity is still just the same as in retail.
This "issue" only gets worse if Classic goes to MoP, since the vast majority of MoP specs are objectively more complex than retail classes.
They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
Holyfury armory
I'd argue the dumb fucks are the ones complaining that the easiest healing spec to play is too convoluted. When its really not. you pointed out that you 'have to keep renew on the target for 10% extra healing' (its actually 6%) when you don't have to do that at all, having 6% extra healing on someone isn't going to be the difference between them surviving and dying. seeing as priests aren't a HoT healing class like druids, and the last time you could keep people alive with purely renew was classic (and even then i'd argue you couldn't). we come full circle. our only HoT that does a lot of healing is our mastery which is passive.
'it was great when you could use renew and that would be enough by itself' when was this? classic. what was classic like, spamming largely one button. you dug this hole yourself. the ability has scaled so it is as good as it always was the amount of HP people have is proportional to the amount that it heals, 'BY ITSELF', now its even better because it increases the healing someone takes by... 6% does this not forfil the requirements of being good by itself?
if renew was all you needed to cast today to keep the tank alive, i'm not sure what sort of game play you're envisioning. where would the other abilities fit in if all you needed to do was cast renew and go afk.
i'm looking at my build and trying to see where all this confusion is founded but i'm just not seeing it. you have a few options but thats what they are, options. if you want to throw a renew on the tank for some upcoming spike damage you can do that, or you can not use that GCD. its an option, its not a mandatory part of the rotation.
looking at our other talents, most of it is just passive stuff that happens while you are doing what you do normally. i'm running the lightwell build
https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classe...lds-pve-healer << here, top build
we have divine image, procs from holy words, you're casting holy words and bringing them off cooldown with your spammable heals. flash heal, heal, Poh and Coh (if talented)
Pom can be talented to leave renews on people, so you don't need to manually cast renew unless you can waste a GCD setting up for incoming damage on that person, probably the tank.
we have a couple life savers, guardian spirit & power word: life
shadow fiend can be talented to heal people from the damage it deals, turning it into another mini heal cd.
you proc apothesis from Pom bouncing 50 times. make a weak aura, keep Pom on CD.
i'm really not seeing that many bullshit procs that make the spec impossible to understand, we have surge of light so free instant cast flash heals, thats not complicated to understand. i'm not seeing how the way that it currently is, is somehow that much different to the way it has been for the last several expansions. albeit we have the hero talents, as archon it primarily makes halo OP and heal for an insane amount.
infact the only consistent bullshit little proc that we do get all the time is surge of light. it procs off halo several times. looking at the build you could drop cosmic ripple for revitalizing prayers and then PoH has a 25% chance to leave a 6 second renew on people. assuming the goal is to simply get more (potential) renews spread around. lightwell puts renew on people it heals as well, so the ability is largely applied passively to people it matters. the ones who are either under 50% hp or who just got hit while they had PoM on them. you just don't need to manually waste the GCD applying it. I have it key bound and I do apply it occasionally, but only pre-emptively. if the damage is so low that I can start layering renews on the raid I'd rather do damage to the boss.
but again the entire original post was aimed at soley renew, renew used to be this amazing spell that could keep whole raids alive purely by itself, but it was never like that. so who is a dumb fuck again?
you're ok with the game having complexity and variety, but you also want it to be simplistic enough that a simple hot is powerful enough by itself to matter. this is the very defintion of having your cake and eating it too. you want to go back to a time where the encounters were tame enough that renew was good enough by itself to keep people alive and yet you don't want to go back to a time where we mainly mashed one button. I'm really struggling to see wtf you mean. it can't be both ways, you can't have increasingly difficult boss fights and have it so your slowest, weakest heal remains relevant, by itself. either the fights are slow, easy to understand, with little out going damage that is healable by a single HoT, or you have increasingly difficult boss fights were that HoT becomes less and less relevant as it is unable to keep people alive, by itself.
the only way I can see renew being useful by itself is either pre-casting it on the tank before they take a big hit, or putting it on yourself and increasing the healing you deal to yourself during big aoe damage. for the most part PoM can be talented to leave renews on people, PoH can be talented to leave renews on people, lightwell leaves a renew on people that drop below 50%, renew by itself is just not good enough when not used in conjunction with the rest of your tool kit. it wasn't good enough in classic either. maybe it was better when you were running 5 mans in t3? so when you out geared the content by 3 tiers.
rotations started in TBC, that was when you started having talents that caused some sort of proc that forced you to press buttons in a specific rotation. but BC for us priests was a flash heal spamming expansion where you'd be mashing flash heal 90% of the time. I don't really remember renew being amazing even then. it certainly wasn't enough to keep the tank alive in heroics let alone by t6. even today we end up spot healing damage that isn't raid wide aoe damage with flash heal, it is our go-to heal to top singluar people off. and its our primary heal for bringing serenity off cd, our main instant cast life saver and tank topper. the only real synergy renew has is with our mastery echo of light so they end up being a double HoT, except we didn't get mastery until Cata. so before then it was just a single hot which would only really synergize with other priests using it or druids and their HoTs, culminating in enough combined tick strength to keep that person alive. today the basic gist of it is that renew, by itself, is probably not worth the GCD to cast it manually so you're better off casting other heals and letting it proc from PoM,PoH or Lightwell. if you want to waste a GCD by throwing renew on the tank, or on yourself, that is entirely upto you, its just likely not going to be the defining factor as to whether you (or the tank) survive the next boss ability. it might help but help is about as good as it gets.
for disc it can be used as an instant to apply atonement while Power word: shield is on CD, its still lacking compared to just using say rapture and removing the cd on shield. it probably has more versatility as disc as a way to apply atonement.
Last edited by Heathy; 2024-10-05 at 03:04 PM.
They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
Holyfury armory
What a productive post. It's "you don't understand", "you bad english", "you no play game". Much wow.
I guess you never raided because you very much plan ahead in all fights. Raid wide healer CDs, personals, positioning is all planned and then learned. One doesn't prohibt the other.
[Being pedantic about the words strategy and tactic when you well know what I mean is just being a bitch. Especially because I didn't use the word "strategy" again, but you keep harping on about it.You plan stuff ahead of time, that's about it. If you don't do this you're playing at a very low level and we are talking about very different games. I don't plan ahead in open world content or delves, sure.]
Edit: I forgot that the starting point of a part of this discussion was specifically "no strategy". That's my bad. Looking up definitions of the word "strategy" and how it differs from the word "tactic" I don't really see why modern gameplay would have any impact on strategy at all. But please tell me why WoW used to be more strategic. I can't think of a single thing. Also people in the usually call things like "the portal strat", which would be a tactic if I'm not mistaken. So it's widely used interchangeably and we did talk about tactics (like the route in M+) already. So again getting really pedantic about it while still being vague with actual examples feels like a cop out because you feel like your other points don't really make sense.
And you thinking that players don't do mechanics on purpose instead of it being a skill issue is just insane to me. But that says more about you than anything else. Also it's amazing that you just lack any level of reading comprehension (not really surprising though, people tend to critize others for exactly what they lack). I never said or even implied that I haven't seen bad players/players not doing mechanics; I've never heard the explanation you provided. Two very different things.
And again reading comprehension. Not agreeing with my point is fine, but not actually getting it is just sad. I spell it out for you. If decision making (like using CDs intelligently, as you said) is getting hard because your rotation is hard to deal with, planning ahead makes it easier. If you have enough time/mental bandwidth to deal with moment to moment decisions, planning ahead loses some of it's value.
Last edited by Archy; 2024-10-06 at 06:19 PM.
I'm confused. You say MOP specs are more complex than retail, and also specs are easier to play than retail? I don't see how that makes sense.Same gameplay pace as today, more rotational buttons, more defensives, more Dps CDs, but no, the specs were totally easier to play than what we have today.
Agreed. It says I've played the game and talked to players, whereas you clearly haven't for a long time and don't.
I notice you don't refute any of my allegations re: not playing and English not being your first language (the latter is fine, not a criticism, but explanatory as to your insistence of the meaning of certain words). Presumably both are true and you accept this?
Might want to think on that angle of attack a bit harder lol.
"A youtuber said so."
"... some wow experts being interviewed..."
"According to researchers from Wowhead..."
Since you only care about making "allegations" (as you put it) and not actually discussing anything, I'm done here.
Also because you like to be pedantic, an allegation implies someone doing something wrong (feel free to look it up in the dictionary, also the word has obviously negative connotations), so if it's not a criticsm, "allegation" is the wrong word to use.
Last edited by Archy; 2024-10-07 at 04:53 PM.
also i don't play priest on high skill, if u what u say is true, then this REALLY sucks
making renew strong won't turn priest to a druid, druid have lot of hots and weakest of them (used to be) as strong as renew (except lifebloom, but it compensate with high burst at end)
if renew now doesn't do anything, and exist just to proc other spells, this is a horrible design in itself, the design that turn a core ability that was good since classic (i still remember using renew while lvling because it was most mana efficient healing) to something to proc other spells
heck i'm old to still feel PoM a 'new' spell, since i changed main in cata so for me priest as hardcore raider stopped in wrath (and i was really hardcore that exp, multiple server firsts)
tldr: agree with u, hope someone who can actually do something read ur post
- - - Updated - - -
probably they had more impact?
i don't remember time that i use renew to 'proc' another spell, renew on itself alone was a good solid hot
maybe in MoP it had the same deal? i remember MoP as time where every class had ability to do something, everyone can dot, but warlock affliction is best, u can refresh ur dot while running (for pvp) with a crap instant cast that sucks for pve, but if u must move, u use it, instead of choose between die or fuck ur dps because for ur bad luck boss decided to use an AOE at ur place when ur dots are ending
The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
Thrall
http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power
I do think that damage/healing profiles have become extremely bloated, but I do not think that the classes and gameplay is bloated. A vast majority of specs have a core gameplay built around 5-6 abilities. Those abilities have very clear cut roles in the kit on paper, and they sound meaningful, and even feel good to press. But then you look at a damage meter and instead of 6 sources of damage you have 30, because there's so many layers of procs and passives going on with those core abilities plus enchants, trinkets, special procs etc..., and those 25 sources of additional damage dilute the core abilities, which makes them feel way less impactful. Like wow, this core ability that has been the most iconic element of the spec since vanilla only does 5-10% of my overall damage? That's... cool, I guess.
They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
Holyfury armory
don't play stupid, I never said renew alone was able to keep any tank alive or anything or such sort. I play cata classic and while the amount of abilities used I have on both priests versions is more or less simmilar I feel like retail version is way too much CD oriented and that abilities just don't really feel all that powerful or impactful but rather you are just supposed to "spin all the plates" just for the sake of it rather than intuitive "right tool for the job" older game versions had.
You might not agree nor I expect that of you, but such is my own opinion.
Also I am pretty sure 99% of my time in fights back then wasn't moving out of some stupid swirlie under me.
I've been engaging in a healthy(?) dosage of TWW (Heroic/Mythic raiding, Solo Shuffle, and M+) and Season of Discovery in the last 2 months.
In the beginning I had to get used to the difference in combat pacing, actions per minute, and everything in regards to game play between both games.
Personally, I can say I prefer retail WoW gameplay, or "modern" gameplay, over classic iterations of WoW.
I quite like the modern class gameplay.
In some cases they could reduce button bloat and streamline things (like give all healers equally functional kits), but on the whole I think the class design at the moment is the best it has ever been.
But it doesn't exist in vacuum, encounter design is a big part of how classes "feel".
For example M+ encounter design is what makes things feel "busy and hectic" - I think they could perhaps reduce the amount of kicks and stops needed just a smigde and maybe also work on reducing the cognitive overload through better audio/visual telegraphing (I hear new swirly graphic is incoming, great news).
I could never go back to "old" pre-MoP classes. I think Legion is my limit.
Not saying this started during BFA, but it was during the Visions of N'Zoth patch that I heard this complaint really coming to the fore front. Random procs being the primary source of damage.
But yeah, I completely agree. In modern WoW, I'll use my strikes and barely see the mob's health bar move, then while doing nothing the health bar will get chunked. Doesn't feel good. Vanilla has a kinda opposite, but similar problem where the majority of your damage is white damage, or some specs of Rogues through TBC and Wrath (maybe) where 80-90% of your damage is auto-attack, with the accompanied poisons.
It feels good when your button presses feel meaningful. I know what's happening, and it's under my control, and doesn't feel random. Autos and procs are great damage fillers, but neither should be the cause for the majority of my damage.
"Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
~ Daryl Davis
I feel the same. Wolk to me was the pinnacle for rotations and abilities. Maybe it was because I mainer feral which was considered the most complicated spec at the time, but I found it a great balance between skill and still being able to actually pay attention to your surroundings.
I distinctly remember cata was where I started to hate the way they did rotations. Way too complicated. Also I don't really play a mmo for speed rotations. I would play dance dance revolution if I wanted that. I prefer mmos where you have to think at least for a second or two before using an ability.