M 2 - 6 feels like Bronze in league

[Fitsu]

I feel like I'm in ELO Hell. I have to get my key to a 7, but anything below a 7 doesn't reward anything so the only people who sign up to anything below a 7 have no hands.

What this means is I'm just stuck. I can't progress my key but I haven't got the score to join other peoples keys.

A situation like this shouldn't exist, they either need to create incentive to do 2 - 6 or they need to give a way of skipping to 7s.

Right now, a 5 is harder than a 9 to pug.

[Zardas]

And just like in League, the solution is to play with friends.

[Tech614]

If you are constantly failing to push your own low keys, the common factor in all those groups is you... just saying.

And it is absolutely NOT easier to pug a 5 than a 9 right now. If you can't get into 9s why are you talking about stuff you have no clue about? 9 pugs are an absolute shit show right now most players get their gilded cap and just run 7s for hero path after. 9 tyranical bosses are literally eating motherfuckers for lunch, even people with 2500 rating this week lol.

[Lolites]

but anything below a 7 doesn't reward anything

...what? sure it does, wtf are you on...

Right now, a 5 is harder than a 9 to pug.

then pug 9s? what is stopping you if its easier?
i mean you claim you dont have score for it, but surely you ran some if you know its easier, otherwise you would be full of shit...

[Cynical Asshole]

You can do 7s?!

I don't even get people to join 5s, and when they do join, despite having score and gear, the key is still bricked.

The vast majority of people right now are shit geared mega casuals. 610 item level is on the high end of gear.

[Fitsu]

If you are constantly failing to push your own low keys, the common factor in all those groups is you... just saying.

And it is absolutely NOT easier to pug a 5 than a 9 right now. If you can't get into 9s why are you talking about stuff you have no clue about? 9 pugs are an absolute shit show right now most players get their gilded cap and just run 7s for hero path after. 9 tyranical bosses are literally eating motherfuckers for lunch, even people with 2500 rating this week lol.

I got stuck at 10s with my Blood DK and just didn't like the spec that much, so I made an alt warrior as prot just seems more fun. It was far easier to time 9s on my Blood DK that it has been to time 5s on this prot warrior.

correlation is not causation, there was a tournament-level LoL player that got stuck in Bronze because there performance was irrelevant, all that mattered was which team got the player with no hands.

I've had an Arcane mage who does 80k dps, a Frost DK whos highest damage ability was auto-attack, a boomkin that pulled the entire room every time.

The common-factor here is that the key is below a 7 so nobody who has an IQ above 12 has any reason to sign for it and having an entire difficulty section be required yet redundant is pointless.

[kamuimac]

If you are constantly failing to push your own low keys, the common factor in all those groups is you... just saying.

And it is absolutely NOT easier to pug a 5 than a 9 right now. If you can't get into 9s why are you talking about stuff you have no clue about? 9 pugs are an absolute shit show right now most players get their gilded cap and just run 7s for hero path after. 9 tyranical bosses are literally eating motherfuckers for lunch, even people with 2500 rating this week lol.

nah . the 2-8 bracket is like a toxic puddle atm because good players have 0 reason to play it.

and people do do play it - well - have no chance to push without full 619 gear from dvelves.

so its catch 22 for them .

its ultra frustrating

its virtualy impossible to push in 2-8 bracket if you dont have guild to do them with .

[Tech614]

nah . the 2-8 bracket is like a toxic puddle atm because good players have 0 reason to play it.

and people do do play it - well - have no chance to push without full 619 gear from dvelves.

so its catch 22 for them .

its ultra frustrating

its virtualy impossible to push in 2-8 bracket if you dont have guild to do them with .

I am pugging keys are virtually all levels 2-10 across alts.

And no, 9s are not easier to pug than 5s. Stop replying if you have no clue what you're talking about. What you have here is bad players, holding back their own groups being the common factor in all those groups and wanting to blame others- which yep is exactly like bad bronze players in league.

It was far easier to time 9s on my Blood DK that it has been to time 5s on this prot warrior.

lol, sure my dude. I have not even had a key under a 7 deplete since week 1 in a pug. Your statement is also ironically hilarious because prot war is laughably easy to carry low M+ groups in compared to a BDK. Prot War doesn't even really start taking damage until 12s. Now that you're saying you're a tank I think the issue is clear with the groups, a solid tank can carry low keys regardless. Ironically its not until the 7 threshold you complained about where tanks really can't just carry any group because of the 15s death penalty.

[anon5123]

It's been like this for a long time. The last time I played was early Shadowlands and it was the same shit. The low level M+ were full of shitters who barely knew how to play, but once I got above 6 or 7, the quality of groups improved drastically and the runs were so much smoother and easier.

It was unironically harder to heal a M+3 than it was to heal an M+8.

[Relapses]

It's been like this for a long time. The last time I played was early Shadowlands and it was the same shit. The low level M+ were full of shitters who barely knew how to play, but once I got above 6 or 7, the quality of groups improved drastically and the runs were so much smoother and easier.

It was unironically harder to heal a M+3 than it was to heal an M+8.

That's on you for thinking healers are people.

But yeah, that's kinda always been true for healing. Blizzard has been incredibly inconsistent the last few expansions and they keep saying they want to reduce burst then introduce mechanics that reduce HP bars from 100 to 10% in a global. M+ balance is ass right now but I have a feeling it'll improve once people start getting a bit more geared.

[Biomega]

That's on you for thinking healers are people.

But yeah, that's kinda always been true for healing. Blizzard has been incredibly inconsistent the last few expansions and they keep saying they want to reduce burst then introduce mechanics that reduce HP bars from 100 to 10% in a global. M+ balance is ass right now but I have a feeling it'll improve once people start getting a bit more geared.

It's a structural problem having to do with scaling and variables across the skill curve.

At the high end, healers know how to be super efficient and dps/tanks know how to minimize their damage and/or heal/protect themselves.

At the low end, healers are inefficient, but also dps/tanks are worse so they take more damage and and heal/protect themselves less.

The result is a mismatch in scaling where if you balance around the high end, healers at the low end start being unable to cope and the extra damage their party is taking because of lower skill makes them want to never play a healer again because it all feels so out of control.

But if you balance around the low end, healers at the high end get turned into DPS players who have to heal here and there, which is often boring and unfulfilling and leads to things like tanks sustaining themselves or even groups running 4 DPS, and so on.

Because the way damage/healing scales doesn't quite match the way skill scales, you constantly get caught in the "holes" where the two curves diverge - and healing is either super difficult or superfluous to a good chunk of the player base. There's no easy solution to this, unfortunately.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I feel like I'm in ELO Hell. I have to get my key to a 7, but anything below a 7 doesn't reward anything so the only people who sign up to anything below a 7 have no hands.

What this means is I'm just stuck. I can't progress my key but I haven't got the score to join other peoples keys.

A situation like this shouldn't exist, they either need to create incentive to do 2 - 6 or they need to give a way of skipping to 7s.

Right now, a 5 is harder than a 9 to pug.

Keys that reward loot below delves (7 and lower) need to be nerfed a lot, they serve no purpose right now other than heroic crests

[Fitsu]

Your statement is also ironically hilarious because prot war is laughably easy to carry low M+ groups in compared to a BDK. Prot War doesn't even really start taking damage until 12s. Now that you're saying you're a tank I think the issue is clear with the groups, a solid tank can carry low keys regardless. Ironically its not until the 7 threshold you complained about where tanks really can't just carry any group because of the 15s death penalty.

You strategically removed the part of my quote where I mention why the keys failed, and then chose to try to twist it into being my fault.

But, you clearly know something I don't so I look forward to your explaination as to how a prot warrior carrys DPS who do 80k dps, pull 4-5 additional packs and die on every boss fight.

I have not for a moment said tanking a 5 is harder than tanking a 9, I said timing a 5 is harder than timing a 9.

[doodle90]

Keys that reward loot below delves (7 and lower) need to be nerfed a lot, they serve no purpose right now other than heroic crests

Their purpose is for people to gear who do not like delves but like m+, they also give crests way faster than delves.

Delves @2 crests per run with an average of 15mins = 4 pieced of gear upgrades in 7hours 30mins.
Slowest m+ is 38 mins timed. = 4 pieces of upgrade in tm3hours 10min

[LordVargK]

Getting "I belong in Challenger, but my team holds me back!" vibes here.
You're not stuck, you're the same as everyone else in your skill bracket.
Get some friends, find a guild, join a community.
Also you describing fellow players as "having no hands" sets the tone here: You are most likely unpleasant to play with. And one toxic player in the group (you) ruins a run, except when everyone is toxic. Now, that's assuming a lot and I know I judge you without knowing you. But purely from the style of your complaint, I think you are more of a problem than your fellow players.

But maybe this is an NA problem, every random group I joined was pretty pleasant.

there was a tournament-level LoL player that got stuck in Bronze because there performance was irrelevant

Bronze tournaments perhaps. Really: Especially in Bronze individual performance matters. The higher you get, the more teamplay matters since it's the more deciding factor when the individual skill of all players increases. So I call BS on this.

[Tech614]

I said timing a 5 is harder than timing a 9.

And I'm not sure what part you don't understand about the fact it is not.

You are playing the single most important role in the group that can absolutely carry bad players through low keys if you know what you're doing. Any tank saying they aren't timing low keys and blaming others is a giant, jupiter sized red flag that they are in fact the person holding those groups back. DPS doesn't really matter at those key levels and the HPS required will be minimal if you aren't pulling more than you should be.

I would wager you are just doing pulls the groups can't handle and blaming others when you could just W through the key and +2 it pulling single packs at a time.

[Fitsu]

And I'm not sure what part you don't understand about the fact it is not.

You are playing the single most important role in the group that can absolutely carry bad players through low keys if you know what you're doing. Any tank saying they aren't timing low keys and blaming others is a giant, jupiter sized red flag that they are in fact the person holding those groups back. DPS doesn't really matter at those key levels and the HPS required will be minimal if you aren't pulling more than you should be.

I would wager you are just doing pulls the groups can't handle and blaming others when you could just W through the key and +2 it pulling single packs at a time.

You continue to attack my experience as if I’m lying. If it’s my fault answer the question you keep avoiding -

How do you carrys DPS who do 80k dps, pull 4-5 additional packs and die on every boss fight.

Too be clear as well I’m pulling max 2 packs at a time, I’m going slower than I would in a 9.

[SinR]

And just like in DOTA/LoL, "I'm stuck in Bronze because my teammates are bad"

[korijenkins]

And just like in League, the solution is to play with friends.

As I understand it, League actually kinda screws you if you play with a duo.

Tends to match you up against tougher opponents.

[Ereb]

its virtualy impossible to push in 2-8 bracket if you dont have guild to do them with .

Thats crazy I been pugging those keys a lot and the pugging experience is the same as it always is. Some good some bad. Make your own keys and pay attention to who you actually invite maybe.