The War Within is already one of WoW's better expansions

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

This expansion has taken a lot of lessons learned from previous failures and successes to form this expansion. It is the most casual friendly expansion we've ever had, even more than Dragonflight. I wasn't 100% behind Delves at first -- not as solo content, but once I started doing them in groups AND on alts? I realize they were at most the most unique thing about this expansion as gameplay goes. Let's also not ignore how better the gearing and progression system is? While the story isn't anything to brag about, there's also not much to criticize on. It definitely has improved with Metzen's return and Danuser's departure. While I do not believe this expansion will dethrone Legion as the best expansion, at least for me, this expansion can definitely become a top 3 contender if they continue on this path and continue to listen to feedback.

Personally? For the story I want some slight adult themes to return: Language, more blood and gore, and morally questionable quests.

[CasualFilth]

Too early to tell for me. Need another patch.

I wasn't really taken with the initial story, I found Xal kinda Jailer 2.0 lite (kinda feels they REALLY don't know what this character is and where to take her - tbh I find the cosmology stuff in WoW limit the kind of stories they can tell. I'm hopeful after the WS Saga is finished we shelf them and reconsider their approach).

I love Delves for the reasons you've stated, so fun to do them on alts but once you outgear them then there's no point to them. Honestly, once your Delver's Journey is over you should earn the 'S1 Mastery' FoS and a Curio with - yeah, I've just upset some people with that sentence, but I want Delves to be a REAL pillar to WoW gameplay. Some Hero Talents are win/loss/underwhelming but that's been discussed to death.

I slightly agree with you on the themes, but not on the adult side; WoW is NOT Game of Thrones, however it did lose its grimdark/dark fantasy identity long ago.

[Vladar]

Typical modern WOW expansion. Doesnt come close to classic expansions.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Already rated it a couple weeks ago, but I rate it as one of the worst expansions. The look of the three underground zones alone are not enough to make up for the abysmal story or lack of longevity.

The War Within

Positives +

• + A return to the visually imaginative high fantasy environments of WoD and Shadowlands.
  + The story gameplay (not the writing, which continues to be abysmal) is overall more engaging on a moment to moment basis than Dragonflight's, which was an overall snore outside of a few moments like the Raszageth cutscene fight at the end of the Azure Span. I particularly liked the flying quests.
• + Sidequests are overall more engaging than usual. Some of them tied into the plot/characters of the main story, or are done with characters you already like. Most of the sidequests in the Ringing Deeps were forgettable, though. Half of the sidequests on the Isle of Dorn were decent. Most sidequests in Hallowfall were worth doing, even if they weren't super memorable.
• + Delves are a nice detour like scenarios/island expeditions/Torghast.
• + The first raid, the Nerubar Palace, looks nice and has some neat boss fights.

Mixed +/-

• +/- Flying mounts did not get summon animations like with the dragonriding species. When you're doing the Dawnbreaker dungeon and you have to summon your flying mount to escape the airship, it just poofs into thin air. It doesn't feel like it was coming to rescue you like with the dragonflight species during the Tindral fight.
• +/- Several of the biomes were squandered. The red dwarven factory area of the Ringing Deeps could have been its own zone, separate from the green natural cavern area. The reddish organic black blood areas of Azj-Kahet could have been its own zone, separate from the blue Nerubian cavern and architecture. The City of Threads is said to actually be the latest city built over several layers of older ruins, but you can't fly down through those stratums. There is so much material here but it gets shoved into just three zones when we could have easily had 6 or 8.
• +/- The music is overall better than Dragonflight's OST at launch, but the hit rate continues to remain poor compared to MoP/WoD era. Jake Lefkowitz for the third expansion in a row does most of the memorable tracks.
• +/- Delves were advertised as being about exploration, so I thought it was going to be more adventure/puzzle gameplay like the Zskera Vaults and Niffen Seeking. But it turned out to be more combat like scenarios/island expedtions/torghast.
• +/- Hero Talents were advertised as the key feature of the expansion, but really you're just getting one talent (that may or may not even have a visual, let alone look cool), and it might actually just be a passive. They are not like Elite Specializations from GW2 which gave you lots of new stuff like several new flashy abilities and a new weapon. I abandoned my paladin main because none of the hero talents looked cool (Lightsmith sounded cool on paper, but when I looked up Youtube footage of it, it just made another player glow yellow for three seconds. Nothing cool like in GW2 where you can conjure an elemental weapon that another player can pick up and change their abilities). I wound up going with Deathbringer on Death Knight for the cool-ish double scythe animation (though not as cool as Reaper's animations in FF14). I often can't even identify what hero talents other players are using. What does Shado-Pan do? Etc. The feature is overall underwhelming.
• +/- Solo queue 8vs8 RBGs: being able to queue for ranked PvP without being in a full premade has been long overdue, though the system is not as robust as GW2's where you can queue with a scaling size of friends and get pitted against appropriately sized groups (ie, a 4 man party against another 4 man party, solo players against other solo queuers, etc).
• +/- Dornogal is an "okay" city. Very blocky and grey, wide open streets with little detailing in the floor. It is underwhelming compared to the embellished decorative stonework and colors of Oribos, or the detailed cobblestone paths of Valdrakken. Still overall nice-ish.

Negatives -

• - The levelling questline and the normal mode dungeons were braindead easy. Mobs never proved a threat. I only ever died once, when I did the sidequest with Faerin where you go to the area with lots of Nerubian elites and I mass pulled. This is the 10th expansion of a 20 year old game. Any player this deep into the game is not a noob anymore. They know how to play. Meanwhile, FF14 is 10 years old and has begun ramping up the difficulty of its story dungeons in its 5th expansion, which was a pleasant surprise (shame that overworld mobs are still piss easy, though).
• - The writing continues to be abysmal. There are so many problems with them that a comprehensive breakdown would be another post in of itself. It's like a Hollywood movie: so much money is being thrown around, and yet they don't bother to hire an actually good writer (and/or give him the leeway to do his stuff and make a good story).
• - The cutscene dialogue (also the bad Hollywood movie music that goes with it) is truly awful and cringeworthy. There are so many cutscenes this time that the quality cannot be overlooked. WoD had lots of prerendered cutscenes but the dialogue and scripting wasn't anywhere near as bad.
• - There is a large number of extremely unlikeable characters you are forced to put up with, either during the story or when doing world quest chores. Adelgonn. Brinthe. Moira. Orweneya. And so on.
• - TWW is an Alliance story. It makes zero sense for Magni, Jaina, Anduin, Turalyon, Alleria, or even Khadgar to be trusting the Horde player character who has betrayed them multiple time and massacred their people for the past 20 years. The story is all about Alliance peoples (dwarves, humans) and lore (the Titans, the Light). A Horde player character feels conspicuously out of place in this narrative. This is the second WoW expansion in a row that makes no attempt to deliever upon the unique selling point of the Warcraft franchise, which is the different faction perspectives and campaigns. It is becoming yet another high fantasy game where all of the players are a do-gooder when there are other games like GW2 or FF14 that better execute that than WoW ever will.
• - Several of the sidequests felt like they should have been a part of the story (Anduin and Faerin playing chess in Mereldar) and do not make sense to do after progressing the plot (Anduin getting captured by the Nerubians and taken down to Azj-Kahet). It becomes confusing whether or not I need to stop and do all of the sidequests available just in case there is one that ties into the main plot and should be done before advancing the story.
• - The war mode supply drop plane flies through mountains in Hallowfall, or even the cavern walls in the Ringing Deeps and in Azj-Kahet. Either it should have been pathed to fly through these underground zones without clipping into the geometry, OR if the devs were too lazy to do that, then make a new model that makes sense to be clipping through walls, like some ethereal or netherwing dragon that can phase through reality or something.

[McNeil]

Nah. This expansion has been playing it way too safe for me to enjoy. It isn't a bad expansion per se, but it hasn't done anything to really impress me. It has the same standard new 4 zones, 8 dungeons and a raid. Its new features is yet another playable dwarf race, delves that are really just another Torghast (but are popular due to giving out good loot), the hero talents are mostly just passives that doesn't enhance your gameplay that much from what I've seen, the warband is just a nice QoL addition for alts.

Basically it just feels like I'm playing Dragonflight 2.0 and I was getting quite bored with that expansion aswell which I played the least. DF is also not a bad expansion, but it shares the same problem of not doing anything that gets me to play. And in case you would ask me ''what would excite you then?'', I'd have to talk to you about a few certain private servers which isn't allowed for me to discuss on this board. But I can say that some of them, despite being done by a small team, impresses me way more than what a huge studio as Blizzard has been doing these past years.

[Khaza-R]

Its a good expansion. DF did a good job setting up the basics. But the story and theme sucked. TWW is a huge improvement in both regards. So long as there aren't any fumbles this should go down as one of the better expansions.

Already rated it a couple weeks ago, but I rate it as one of the worst expansions. The look of the three underground zones alone are not enough to make up for the abysmal story or lack of longevity.

Why do you even still play this game. You've been nothing but negative for years bro. Time to move on

[baskev]

This expansion has taken a lot of lessons learned from previous failures and successes to form this expansion. It is the most casual friendly expansion we've ever had, even more than Dragonflight. I wasn't 100% behind Delves at first -- not as solo content, but once I started doing them in groups AND on alts? I realize they were at most the most unique thing about this expansion as gameplay goes. Let's also not ignore how better the gearing and progression system is? While the story isn't anything to brag about, there's also not much to criticize on. It definitely has improved with Metzen's return and Danuser's departure. While I do not believe this expansion will dethrone Legion as the best expansion, at least for me, this expansion can definitely become a top 3 contender if they continue on this path and continue to listen to feedback.

Personally? For the story I want some slight adult themes to return: Language, more blood and gore, and morally questionable quests.

I like it so far. For you personally. while language i do not care about. More blood and gore etc....maybe in a future expansion. Right now it does not feel right. Maybe in the next expansion. And for me it does not have to be full dark. Warcraft could be more "foul, dark" etc. But it was never warhammer. So i do not get why people personally want it to be like that.
But, its your opinion.

I like all the stuff in the game so far. I do question what happend to some of /part of the other previous expansions. ( bobby did, if we believe all those recent blizzard videos by belluar etc). But it seems the dev hav a clue again.


For me personally things i would like to see improved:
- gore. while i think i do not want it on your level of darkness. i do find it to light these days. There are dark moments ( like all those dead dragons etc) but the overal story is a bit light.
- all your hero's on 1 tab is annoying. like i want a way to filter by class or level etc.
- Find the dwarven lore a bit flat. like their voices :P. kobolt lore is more infront.
- arathi is fun, but it feels like we only did the first town of quests. Very little lore. they are there for many years. But it feels like they are only a week there.
- spiders, queen was good, daughter turned on her felt....like we have seen this before.
- system wise. I think all the systems are good to get gear. But i think they need a bit more balance in it.
- delves are fun. but also not. they are in a weird place.
- to much to do in the world. I like to run as addonless as possible. the things i need are in WoW for the most part these days. ( still run the standard bigwiggs etc). But between treasure's, rare's, delves, dungeons, towns, WQ, flight quests etc etc. the map is filled with icons. that sometimes overlap too.

[Eapoe]

Still too early for me. Feels rushed. Has some nice things, but also has some bad things.
The zones are nice.
The story is decent.
The raid has been fun.
Dungeons are okay.
Hero talents were a nice thought.

On the flip side:
The zones are overall pretty small, mainly due to dragon riding and how fast you can move around.
Story doesn’t really stand out.
Dungeons feel more designed to be m+ compatible rather than a contained stand out story area.
Hero talents don’t seem finished and lack visual flare. Just an example: Pack Leader for BM Hunter has no visual changes, no gameplay changes, and isn’t even noticeable outside of putting points into the nodes.

The biggest issue (personally) with the xpac is all of the bugs and maintenance bogging it down.

It’s been out roughly 6-7 weeks now. It can go either way, but it definitely feels almost like a better EA produce release as it feels unfinished/unpolished.

[Caprias]

Typical modern WOW expansion. Doesnt come close to classic expansions.

How does it play from the retirement home?

[Nzx]

Some of the responses here feel like people don't actually even play the game or have gone into it looking for things they can pick apart. The "dungeons being designed for M+ not for story" for example when Darkflame Cleft exists is hilarious. Almost all of the S1 dungeons have unavoidable backtracking built in. People saying the expansion is bad because it needs "more gore" or isn't "dark enough" which is completely subjective feedback. "It's the same as DF" except for all of these features which I'll list off but say they're "small" or "unimportant" because I don't want to face the reality that a 20 year old game won't always keep all of my attention like something new and shiny will. "WoW isn't GW2 or FF14 but I'm here playing it still because I want to complain about it".

It's like watching someone who's broken up with but isn't over their ex, or is over their partner but hasn't broken up with them. Just petty digs about how they've gained/lost weight or their new partner makes more/less money than you do or stewing about all the things they do that you don't like but staying with them anyway. What I'm saying is fucking quit the game if you don't like it and if you have quit already then stop coming back to a forum about it to tell everyone else about how you don't like it anymore. I feel sorry for you.

[Shadowferal]

How does it play from the retirement home?

And your only comparisons are the low bars from the last decade...

[Beatman]

Lack of rewards in pvp is appalling. Worst gladiator mount in history. MMR fiasco in solo shuffle. RBGs even more dead than in DF (as expected thanks to BG blitz).

Profession system is very good, but the prices have tanked so much that it has become hard to make money.

Narrative is terrible as usual - I stopped caring and expecting anything a long time ago. New zones are pretty good.

I haven't played raid, m+ or delves so can't comment on those.

So far 2.5/5 for me.

[Dracullus]

And your only comparisons are the low bars from the last decade...

Sorry bro, we had Classic and people can challenge bullshit claims how TBC/WoTLK were masterpieces compared to modern expansions.

[MrLachyG]

Nah. This expansion has been playing it way too safe for me to enjoy. It isn't a bad expansion per se, but it hasn't done anything to really impress me. It has the same standard new 4 zones, 8 dungeons and a raid. Its new features is yet another playable dwarf race, delves that are really just another Torghast (but are popular due to giving out good loot), the hero talents are mostly just passives that doesn't enhance your gameplay that much from what I've seen, the warband is just a nice QoL addition for alts.
.

Delves are nothing like Torghast, completely different

[ro9ue]

From my perspective it's a step up from garbage bin expansions of DF and SL. I like it so far.

We can't judge it on its entirety yet, but given most expansions have the majority of their vibe/content front-loaded, I think we can make a rough estimate of at least the range of where it will land on most peoples' lists by the time it's over. For me, it's highly unlikely it will eclipse Legion or Wrath, but I think there's good arguments to be had about where it sits among the mid-tier expansions at the moment. They could hit us with 2 banger patches and it goes to the top (but still below Wrath/Legion), or it could flop and then its at the bottom (but still above SL/DF).

Personally, I have most of my hopes for the Midnight expansion. With a fully Metzen'd out vibe and the gameplay framework established in DF/TWW, the potential is there.

[Nebron]

Some of the responses here feel like people don't actually even play the game or have gone into it looking for things they can pick apart. The "dungeons being designed for M+ not for story" for example when Darkflame Cleft exists is hilarious. Almost all of the S1 dungeons have unavoidable backtracking built in. People saying the expansion is bad because it needs "more gore" or isn't "dark enough" which is completely subjective feedback. "It's the same as DF" except for all of these features which I'll list off but say they're "small" or "unimportant" because I don't want to face the reality that a 20 year old game won't always keep all of my attention like something new and shiny will. "WoW isn't GW2 or FF14 but I'm here playing it still because I want to complain about it".

It's like watching someone who's broken up with but isn't over their ex, or is over their partner but hasn't broken up with them. Just petty digs about how they've gained/lost weight or their new partner makes more/less money than you do or stewing about all the things they do that you don't like but staying with them anyway. What I'm saying is fucking quit the game if you don't like it and if you have quit already then stop coming back to a forum about it to tell everyone else about how you don't like it anymore. I feel sorry for you.

Okay boss - perception of an expansion will almost certainly be subjective, it’s not a rocket science to get it. For you to have a truly objective view, you would need to go to a place where people talk about data - class balance, encounters tuning etc.

It’s also not a singled out opinion, that the plot is lucklaster. I don’t believe people saying it’s mediocre, by default mean it lacks „gore”. Following cliches and tropes that exist in storytelling for decades, or even centuries isn’t the most creative move.

It’s a really tough topic, since it’s always subjective by nature, but it doesn’t take much to develop a certain „standard” or taste for a „good” story after being exosed to one.

It was never a strong feature of WoW, to be fair, but in the last decade it dropped to the level of so-called Hollywood braindead mush. It has it’s moments, but for the story to be memorable, it has to be „bold”, not simply gore. It has to explore ideas that were never considered, not simply creating a cosmology, while leaving no space for nuances or recipient’s imagination.

Personally, I consider TWW to be an improvement over DF, which somewhat laid out a new „baseline” for WoW’s future, but then again, wouldn’t consider it to be a solid one. It’s also worrying that with a new development pipleline the content cadence will eventually become consistent, but at a cost of being a simple formulaic template, copied over and over again to fit the development schedule - and I find it a valid concern.

Maybe it’s just heating up and patches to come will bring the good, time will tell. And since it’s just a prelude for the saga, I wouldn’t be surprised if Midnight will eventually be on par with Legion, which I believe is universally considered to be one of the top expansions, or even surpass it in terms of „coolness”

[Eapoe]

Some of the responses here feel like people don't actually even play the game or have gone into it looking for things they can pick apart. The "dungeons being designed for M+ not for story" for example when Darkflame Cleft exists is hilarious. Almost all of the S1 dungeons have unavoidable backtracking built in. People saying the expansion is bad because it needs "more gore" or isn't "dark enough" which is completely subjective feedback. "It's the same as DF" except for all of these features which I'll list off but say they're "small" or "unimportant" because I don't want to face the reality that a 20 year old game won't always keep all of my attention like something new and shiny will. "WoW isn't GW2 or FF14 but I'm here playing it still because I want to complain about it".

It's like watching someone who's broken up with but isn't over their ex, or is over their partner but hasn't broken up with them. Just petty digs about how they've gained/lost weight or their new partner makes more/less money than you do or stewing about all the things they do that you don't like but staying with them anyway. What I'm saying is fucking quit the game if you don't like it and if you have quit already then stop coming back to a forum about it to tell everyone else about how you don't like it anymore. I feel sorry for you.

What dungeon has unavoidable backtracking? Every dungeon is either linear, or has skips to go back to the previous area, such as the mine cart in SV. The only one that might not be linear is Dawnbreaker, and that’s just a big open area.
Darkflame Cleft is completely linear up until just after the mine cart chase, and then you go about 50 yards back to the entrance. You aren’t going to the 3rd boss and then running all the way back. Darkflame Cleft isn’t even a s1 dungeon, btw.
Just to further the point a little bit, during an interview or blue post (I can’t remember which one because it was so long ago), there was a question brought up about bringing back Vanilla, BC, and Wrath dungeons for m+ rotations since Blizz was doing that with other xpacs. The response is that they aren’t compatible with m+, but I think there was the typical “but we can always see” at the end.
Also, as I pointed out, it’s still too early to tell if this is one of the better expansions. It has its positives as well as its negatives. I’ll play as long as I’m having fun, but that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize it for its shortcomings, whether subjective or objective (such as all the bugs and extended maintenance to fix those, or the visually lacking hero talents).

[Doffen]

A solid 4 for me. Behind Legion and TBC, but ahead of the rest.

Story is a solid step up from boring Dragonflight, gameplay is great, dungeons are fun, delves is nice, transmogs are cool, raid is great, zones are nice.

There are very few negatives for me, if any. Ah yeah one, that the other 4 dungeons in TWW isn't doable even on heroic or mythic0. It is kind of unbelieveable to me, especially when I think they are great, and two of them are my favorites. Sucks major earthen charisma.

[Caprias]

And your only comparisons are the low bars from the last decade...

Do you press 90% or 95% of the time shadowbolt/frostbolt? How much % do I need for peak gameplay?

[CalamityHeart]

I'm probably never going to be the kind of WoW player again that I was back in the MoP/Legion time period, but that version of me would have loved the shit out of this expansion and have devoured it whole, because it truly is the best that WoW has been since Legion, at least to me, and it kinda hurts that I can't really bring myself to dive into it the way I would've happily done when I was still in school. I've moved on, WoW will never grip me again. But damn if this one doesn't try. It's succeeded enough for me to not plan on canceling my sub, but that's about as much as it possibly can.

Story's good, all the dungeons have grown on me, what I've done of the raid has been really fun, Delves could be better but the concept that's there is exactly the sort of shit I like, so I'm hopeful that things can only go up for them, world's beautiful, music's absolutely on point, hero talents are neat, class gameplay is... alright, so far. Mage makes me want to cave my skull in, but the other classes I've leveled and played around with have been a fun experience. It's not a perfect launch patch, but it's definitely done more than enough right to be one of the better ones in recent memory. Very eager to see if they can keep it up and improve further.