Let's Decide what Classic+ is once and for all (Lol no I wont)

[Mysterymask]

So in a bleak hope I decided to make a Poll and some options on what the fuck even is "Classic+" cause no one can agree

First and foremost Classic+ is a fan term no one at Blizzard ever mentioned "Classic+" just in classic internet fashion people took the term and ran with it and no one seems to agree on what it actually means other than "Classic but more"

So I have some options you can vote on once I put the poll on

A: Classic Tier 4 and beyond: Vanilla wow but more raid tiers are added on in a more classic style. They will remain 40 man raids mechanics mostly stay the same but now things like a "Kharazhan Raid" for 40 people appear or make some more encounters adding in multiple new raid tiers within Azeroth

B: New Timeline of expansion but keep "Vanilla Style": Make expansions for classic that doesn't change the forumla too much if at all. Example BC but no Blood Elves/Dranaei, raids are still 40 man and most BC Changes just don't happen or the story is re-written in a different timeline. Either way a sort of "Classic Timeline" of expansion that "wont make the same mistakes retail did"

C: Season of Discovery or what Blizzard is basically doing now: I don't expect this one to be popular in the poll but New classic servers with fun experimental changes to keep the servers fresh and interesting.

D: I just want vanilla with no changes but I can play other classes god damnit: So basically no experimental changes but actually do a balancing run along the classes so that the "Bad classes" are actually viable in classic

E: Acktually!: I'm wrong in my assumptions actually classic plus is Insert longwinded classic plus explanation here

[Big Thanks]

B is classic+

Not necessarily what "everyone wants" but......it is classic+

[NineSpine]

Classic+ is Classic with new content. Your poll is "What kind of Classic+ do you want" and that is a different question.

[RobertMugabe]

Classic+ to me is sort of what SoD is, but with a different focus. So like instead of making the game more about raids and faster levels, the focus should've been more on the world (questing/leveling) and offering more dungeons IMO (ofc they should also add raids, but it shouldn't be the only new thing).

So basically have Classic with class balancing and some QoL changes + new content, but don't make it only about raids. I mean IMO people who love raiding would rather just play Cata or Retail.

[anon5123]

"Classic+" to me has always been:

-Balance classes a little but not too much; just tweaks here and there, not copypasting a bunch of retail abilities and calling it a day. Keep the identity of vanilla's classes, don't just homogenize everything for the sake of """balance""".
-BRAND NEW content, not just recycling existing assets and locations. Expand upon the lore that's already there. Grim Batol, Karazhan, Emerald Dream, Hyjal, etc.
-More group quests, more dungeons, more raids, etc. More group content in general.
-Dual spec. Period.

Those are the major parts, anyway. There's tons of other smaller QoL stuff I'd want like consumes stacking to 20 and a few more flight paths / more graveyards.

[SinR]

SoD.

/10c

[luciano]

So in a bleak hope I decided to make a Poll and some options on what the fuck even is "Classic+" cause no one can agree

First and foremost Classic+ is a fan term no one at Blizzard ever mentioned "Classic+" just in classic internet fashion people took the term and ran with it and no one seems to agree on what it actually means other than "Classic but more"

So I have some options you can vote on once I put the poll on

A: Classic Tier 4 and beyond: Vanilla wow but more raid tiers are added on in a more classic style. They will remain 40 man raids mechanics mostly stay the same but now things like a "Kharazhan Raid" for 40 people appear or make some more encounters adding in multiple new raid tiers within Azeroth

B: New Timeline of expansion but keep "Vanilla Style": Make expansions for classic that doesn't change the forumla too much if at all. Example BC but no Blood Elves/Dranaei, raids are still 40 man and most BC Changes just don't happen or the story is re-written in a different timeline. Either way a sort of "Classic Timeline" of expansion that "wont make the same mistakes retail did"

C: Season of Discovery or what Blizzard is basically doing now: I don't expect this one to be popular in the poll but New classic servers with fun experimental changes to keep the servers fresh and interesting.

D: I just want vanilla with no changes but I can play other classes god damnit: So basically no experimental changes but actually do a balancing run along the classes so that the "Bad classes" are actually viable in classic

E: Acktually!: I'm wrong in my assumptions actually classic plus is Insert longwinded classic plus explanation here

It doesn't have to be any one thing. It could be, and likely will be, some mix of many or all of those things, and more.

For me, personally, I just want to be able to use a LFR and LFD thing for Classic content. I know people don't like it. I understand people have arguments against. I don't care. It's a matter of accessibility. I can't run the raids and the dungeons without the tool. Can't make it work. I've tried every version of Classic and that's where it falls apart.

Will it happen? I'm not holding my breath. But I wish it would. It would be really, really cool to build a character from 1-60 and play Vanilla raids and dungeons at the proper level. They're on version 5 or 6 of new experiences/clean starts for WoW and none of them have been able to give me THAT.

And it's as simple as implementing a tool we already have in-game.

[NineSpine]

It doesn't have to be any one thing. It could be, and likely will be, some mix of many or all of those things, and more.

For me, personally, I just want to be able to use a LFR and LFD thing for Classic content. I know people don't like it. I understand people have arguments against. I don't care. It's a matter of accessibility. I can't run the raids and the dungeons without the tool. Can't make it work. I've tried every version of Classic and that's where it falls apart.

Will it happen? I'm not holding my breath. But I wish it would. It would be really, really cool to build a character from 1-60 and play Vanilla raids and dungeons at the proper level. They're on version 5 or 6 of new experiences/clean starts for WoW and none of them have been able to give me THAT.

And it's as simple as implementing a tool we already have in-game.

You are asking to undermine the core design of Classic, the reason the vast majority of the people are there. It's "accessibility" in the same way that selling level boosts is. We want Classic+. You want Retail-.

[Ermelloth]

A mix of B and D for me. Some changes are needed, "bad" classes to make them viable (aka taunts, Crus. Strike, hit for boomies, hybrid manaregen, res for Druids, etc).

[luciano]

You are asking to undermine the core design of Classic, the reason the vast majority of the people are there. It's "accessibility" in the same way that selling level boosts is. We want Classic+. You want Retail-.

Please stop pretending you speak for more than yourself. Your opinion is no more or less valid than mine.

I just honestly wonder what value you think you brought to the conversation? I mean, other than to show yourself as the kind of narrow-minded fella that I don't need to hear from anymore. Your negative vibe is awful and I have to pass on any further engagement.

[Mysterymask]

See this is why I decided to make a discussion cause no one can really agree on what they want.

Personally I'm on the fence of experimental changes but I kinda like the idea of going further and crazier than what even SoD does. Things like making Vanilla style DKs or making Burning Crusade part of the 1-60 experience and the 25 man raids are 40 man vanilla style raids.

Personally I don't see the whole "balancing classes but keep them vanilla like" something that can be done in a way to keep people happy. Part of the vanilla experience is the fact that Warriors Rogues and Mages are so damned busted and trying to balance DPS would either mean nerfing those to the ground or bringing the other guys up and that I don't see as feasible in any meaningful way. Maybe if there was more tiers of gear they could make gear that would eventually balance/strengthen those classes.

[Relapses]

I don't think you're going to get a very concise answer from people on this forum. This subforum is pretty dead these days and the only people posting regularly on it are ones who are pretty deeply entrenched in their ideas about what is (and isn't) WoW.

FWIW, I voted C because I think this is the most we can reasonably expect from Blizzard in terms of "alternative WoW." It's the only solution that allows Blizzard to retain subscription revenue while simultaneously keeping dev costs low. A truly divergent Classic WoW has the very real possibility of siphoning players away from retail which is a situation that I'm sure Blizzard wants to avoid as well.

[Mysterymask]

I don't think you're going to get a very concise answer from people on this forum. This subforum is pretty dead these days and the only people posting regularly on it are ones who are pretty deeply entrenched in their ideas about what is (and isn't) WoW.

Oh well aware thus the (lol no i wont) in the title

[NineSpine]

Please stop pretending you speak for more than yourself. Your opinion is no more or less valid than mine.

I just honestly wonder what value you think you brought to the conversation? I mean, other than to show yourself as the kind of narrow-minded fella that I don't need to hear from anymore. Your negative vibe is awful and I have to pass on any further engagement.

I would love for retail to abandon its core design principles and make the game more like Classic, but I don't strut around pretending that I represent some silent majority that desperately wants their game gutted to accommodate me. Why? Because that would be passive aggressive and entitled. The people playing Retail very clearly do not want what I want, and who am I to demand that what they love be stomped out for my sake? Retail isn't for me, and that's fine. Classic isn't for you, and that's fine. The only negativity here is your self-righteous response to mild criticism.

[ThatsOurEric]

I always thought Classic+ was basically Retail (current) WoW and all it's trimmings, but set to Classic style.

Almost similarly to ReMix, only without the ReMix specific currency, super leveling speed, and obviously the ability sockets and stat gems.

I mean I'd certainly give that a whirl for sure.

[Rorixis]

I havent tried this at all but I would expect classic+ to basically be "Turtle WoWs New locations & maps". Mostly a bunch of nooks and crannies in already existing zones where there are extra quests that add on top of the existing levelling experience. That way it encourages players to go exploring the world they already know (ala SoD) for new quests and areas instead of just following a quest guide. Then add new class quests here and there that prop up some lackluster specs but without changing the core of the game.

[Vladar]

More raid tiers and zones but stay at level 60 forever.

[Allarielle]

I realise that we're not really supposed to discuss private servers on this forum, but for the sake of argument I do sort of feel like it's inescapable in this topic. Recently I've been playing a bunch on, alternately, both Turtle WoW and Ascension.

Option 1/Turtle WoW has:
* No LFD. It does have an LFG tool you can use to manually create groups, though, as long as you run there yourself.
* Only the original 9 classes with minimal changes, almost all of which are consistent with Vanilla designs.
* Levelling speed is faster than in Vanilla, but only barely as a result of more quests and slightly more powerful talents.
* There are new skills, races, zones, bosses, dungeons, raids, and professions, but they almost all feel perfectly in line with the original Vanilla content.
* The balance is significantly improved compared to Vanilla/SoD, but it still suffers from a dominance of Warriors... I'm assuming this is temporary.
* There are various different challenge modes you can optionally select to make your levelling harder for a reward.

Option 2/Ascension has:
* Full LFD, including a queued solo dungeon experience. I'm not sure, but I'm assuming it also has LFR.
* Heavy modifications to gear, rewards, and the levelling experience in general.
* Various different versions that alternately use either the original 9 classes, an entirely new set of 21 classes, or a pair of (mostly/sortof) classless designs where you can pick your own skills. (Mostly/sortof because in the end you sort of have to pick what's meta anyway, so the implied freedom is mostly fake.)
* There are... some... new areas, but most of the new content is in the form of quests.
* There are various different challenge modes you can optionally select to make your levelling harder for a reward.

Alternately, I suppose that both of them could be called Classic+. One takes the Classic feel, design philosophy, goals and gameplay loop and just adds more content. The other takes the original content and just adds more Quality of Life. I think they're both more or less equally popular in general? But I don't have numbers.

Therefore, I don't think that Blizzard can choose. I think that if they want to capture the full breadth of the Classic+ wanting demographic, they'll need to appeal to both groups, and that means releasing two different versions. If they pick option A, they get half the population. If they pick option B, they get the other half. If they try to combine the two though? I think they'll get no-one at all. That is, unfortunately, the direction SoD seems to be going in, and is the reason SoD couldn't keep me engaged for very long.

Turtle WoW is so much better than SoD, in my opinion, only because the dev team behind it has a clear understanding of the design philosophy and goals behind the project, and aren't trying to appeal to everyone with a half-measures. Personally I sort of despise Ascension, because I actually really dislike the LFD/dual-spec/fast-levelling/rush-to-endgame-and-then-get-bored instant gratification-ification of Retail design... but there's lots of people clamoring for those things. Even among the people who profess to dislike those things, there's still many who say 'oh but lets just have dual spec at least' or 'oh but lets just have LFD at least' or 'oh but levelling is so slow it couldn't hurt to just tune it up a bit, right?', and I think maybe that's where SoD got caught in the weeds?

Basically the TLDR is that I think there's two extremely distinct and diametrically opposed camps when it comes to Classic+ both of which want things that are fundamentally incompatible with what the other wants. If Blizzard wants to make Classic+, they have to pick one and go all in. They can also 'pick one and go all in' on both of them, separately, but they'd need to be two different versions of the game.

[Zodiark]

I chose option B because I have always felt that if they came up with a new timeline but kept the Vanilla Style then it would be fun to explore new areas or areas we have seen but in a different way. I feel like some of the quality of life changes to wow are good but not to the extent that leveling feels pointless and the zones become barren. I like the new mega server thing they are currently doing that way it makes the zones feel more alive.

[Mojo03]

To me it means retaining the zones and design philosophy of vanilla, while mixing up the experience

I would say SOD is walking towards that, while "classic+" would be running (more polished, more fleshed out, more novelty), but if you want to call SOD full on classic+ I get it.

I think some "what if" seasonal scenarios could be interesting personally. Like the burning legions comes and its apparent right from level 1 and it alters some aspects of leveling (quests, dungeons). Or Arthas invades or something else. Just stuff to mix it up, while sticking to the classic world and design philosophy.