[Concept] Multi-Classes

[Teriz]

Unless that is the archetype they want to explore for a new class. No different than calling the survey fake bdcause of a Titan based Tinker which 'sounds more fake' than a traditional Tinker.

Except if it were, we would have seen signs of such an archetype emerging. Instead, the artificers we have seen out of Draenei and Nightborne races look nothing like Brigette from Overwatch. It is also highly unlikely that Blizzard would simply transplant an Overwatch character into WoW as a class archetype.

As for the Titan-based Tinker, there is a basis for that via Mimiron, and that basis has been in place for years.

[Triceron]

Except if it were, we would have seen signs of such an archetype emerging. Instead, the artificers we have seen out of Draenei and Nightborne races look nothing like Brigette from Overwatch. It is also highly unlikely that Blizzard would simply transplant an Overwatch character into WoW as a class archetype.

As for the Titan-based Tinker, there is a basis for that via Mimiron, and that basis has been in place for years.

Not true at all

We NEVER saw archetypical signs of a Pandaren Monk, Dracthyr Evoker or any return of the Illidari ( who even you assumed were all dead at the end of TBC) emerging before their respective classes were added. No hint at DH with a wingless Vengeance form, no hints at Mist-wielding healers, no signs of Black Dragon magic being used to Augment allies.

The description you're hearing is just the hook that makes it distinct. It could still be connected to Draenei or Nightborne magi-tech, while also opening up to Titan tech where the reactive shield tech may come from. It all sounds Protoss anyways, which Draenei are also heavily inspired by.

What you're doing is akin to dismissing Draenei for having Protoss influences. Blizzard has already tapped into non Warcraft inspirations, even from Starcraft. Why is Overwatch suddenly taboo?

[Ielenia]

You mean other than the fact that they use Rage to power their attacks while Paladins don't?

"Rage" is not an actual power in the lore of the game. Plus Arthas himself, a paladin, has demonstrated rage quite extensively, during Warcraft 3's human campaign story.

Also if we flip this around, Paladins can heal others and use holy magic, while Warriors don't use magic at all.

So? All you're doing is pointing out that paladins do have a purpose to exist, while warriors do not. So by your logic the warrior class should not exist, yet it does.

Nope. I'm simply saying that for all intents and purposes, the Astrologian class is already in the game as Balance Druids.

And you're wrong about that. Because, again, your argument says the mage class already exists in the shaman class, and the tinker class already exists in the hunter class. Druids are not astrologers, much like hunters aren't tinkers and shamans aren't mages.

This is evidence that the survey is fake.

It's not. That is jut your opinion, and opinions aren't evidence.

- - - Updated - - -

You say it doesn't contain any abilities

I literally never said that. Get rid of that strawman and try to address my actual arguments, please.

Again and again, it is described as a Warrior (or a hunter).

"Again and again", those are simply the use of the generic terms of "warrior" and "hunter". Those terms are not referring to the WoW classes of the same names.

What else have i missed?

Basic logic and middle-school level reading comprehension, apparently.

What's unique about the amazon that sets it apart from existing classes?

You listed two unique traits about the amazon, yourself:
• Summoning a valkyrie. Something the warrior and hunter classes cannot do.
• Use a bow. Something the warrior and paladin classes cannot do.

The trees that make up the forest are a critical part of what a forest is.

The collective of trees is important. Individual trees are not important to the forest. If you remove a single tree from the forest, the forest is still a forest.

Which are....?

Whatever and however many Blizzard wishes to give the amazon if they decide to make the concept a reality.

Because it needs to interact with the wings, which move differently depending on the animation.

No, it doesn't need to "interact" with the wings. Weapons and shields disappear when stashed on the back, capes are also removed. And even the dracthyr's own special armor clips through those wings like any other normal armor would.

Understand this: Blizzard didn't give the dracthyr race "special transmog" because of "technical limitations". They did it because they wanted to try something new.

What i meant is, the elemental lords don't use other forces' magic like titans do.

I'm not talking about the elemental lords. We're talking about clases. I'm talking about the shaman, who can wield fire, frost, earth and wind magic at the same time.

[Teriz]

Not true at all

We NEVER saw archetypical signs of a Pandaren Monk,

Dracthyr Evoker

or any return of the Illidari ( who even you assumed were all dead at the end of TBC) emerging before their respective classes were added.

The description you're hearing is just the hook that makes it distinct. It could still be connected to Draenei or Nightborne magi-tech, while also opening up to Titan tech where the reactive shield tech may come from. It all sounds Protoss anyways, which Draenei are also heavily inspired by.

What you're doing is akin to dismissing Draenei for having Protoss influences. Blizzard has already tapped into non Warcraft inspirations, even from Starcraft. Why is Overwatch suddenly taboo?

There's a difference between Protoss influences, and seeing Protoss Immortals, Zealots, Carriers and Motherships popping up in WoW. The description is the latter situation.

[Triceron]

There's a difference between Protoss influences, and seeing Protoss Immortals, Zealots, Carriers and Motherships popping up in WoW. The description is the latter situation.

We literally saw a Protoss dragoon looking robot in Zereth Mortis

[Teriz]

We literally saw a Protoss dragoon looking robot in Zereth Mortis

A random NPC isn't a class.

[Ielenia]

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1097727.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9a/86/49/9...4a8fe1a69a.jpg

A pet is not evidence of "future class content", and the second one is just a statue. Hardly in-game representations of a player class archetype.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...was-once-a.jpg
https://wow.zamimg.com/modelviewer/l.../251/37371.png

None of those are evokers, or resemble the playable evoker archetype.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...-3-0-14849.jpg
https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/scree...rs-regalia.jpg[/quote]
It really doesn't help your argument when you have to use an image of Illidan that exists within a vision of the past and a warlock tier set as "evidence for future content".

[Triceron]

A random NPC isn't a class.

Neither is a pet or a random dragonman npc, yet you linked them anyways

Also, Artificer isn't literally adding Brigitte into the game, so why you fussing?

[username993720]

Would you see reason in simeone asking for a Beastmaster class because they were unhappy about it simply being a Hunter spec?

"A ranger (also known as hunter, archer, scout, or tracker) is an archetype found in works of fantasy fiction and role-playing games.

Rangers are usually associated with the wisdom of nature. Rangers tend to be wise, hardy, cunning, and perceptive in addition to being skilled woodsmen. Many are skilled in woodcraft, stealth, wilderness survival, beast-mastery, herbalism, tracking, and sometimes "nature magic" or have a resistance to magic. Rangers spend a great deal of time hunting, fishing, and camping—whether on a short- or long-term basis—and their preferred martial arts weapons leans towards practical-utility: archery, knife fighting, stick-fighting, axeplay, spearplay and swordplay.

Rangers skills in books and games can include and are not limited to:
Taming, calming or charming animals; often they may be accompanied by a favored animal companion."

Where do you see Banshee powers in all of that?

So instead of accepting the mere possibility, you just reject reality instead by arguing visages should not be in WoW even though they already are. Do you see how your bias blinds you of the truth?

Visages are a precedent. Regardless of how anyone feels about it. Just like having one Winged race opens up possibility for future ones. Even if it never happenscagaun, that precedent is set, just like Worgen set a precedent for transforming races with multiple forms, which is what Dracthyr Visages are based on today.

And you wonder why you can't predict what Blizzard does anymore. It's because you're not interested in predictions, you're only interested in validating your own vision of what you want WoW to be.

Worgen human forms are what they should be - Gilneans (or, victorian-esque people). The Dracthyr visage forms are just aberrations. Instead of trying to convey a noble in order to infiltrate or mingle with the mortal races (humans), like Deathwing and Onyxia did, they're just a tribute to a modern group of people. I'm not saying they shouldn't be. I'm saying they were poorly executed.

Cuz she's an important character that they set up to be s main villain. You don't see Warriors gaining Garrosh's raid powers either.

1. Warriors are already playable.
2. His Y'shaarj powers have nothing to do with the Warrior.

Then don't freak out when I'm addressing a race that you brought up when you're now admitting you are talking about the race. You seriously can't hold a single conversation can you? Like you forgot you even talked about the race and wondered why I eas talking about races and not classes when YOU were the one who set the topic

Anyway, you get the drift.
The Darkfallen, and their Dark Rangers, Wardens and Blood Mages, could be used against Denathrius and the Nathrezim.

So how did Shadowlands lead into Dragonflight? How did Dragonflight lead into TWW?

I told you. Up until Shadowlands, that was the gist. Anyway, the cinematic for Shadowlands hints very much at a draconic, elemental expansion: bolvar's scorched body resembling Deathwing or corrupted Wrathion, his hammer resembling Ragnaros, the shattered sky above having bronze coloration, Sylvanas' shadowy powers resembling the Void, Zereth Mortis resembling the Emerald Dream.

A connection to story and setting, which Blizzard values considerably for presentation reasons when tying a new feature to an expansion. They don't prefer throwing concepts with no strong thematic connection, like say adding Shadow Hunter in WoD or Legion or Dragonflight just because its a new class.

The thematic can be musical or technological without the need to invent a radiant song or using titan tech. Either the threat of the expansion have something to do with it, or the land we are going to explore. It's that simple.

Same thing that makes a POTM unique from a Warrior like Varian or Garrosh. A use of Divine powers and a penchant for using 'exotic' weaponry or fighting style that isnt used by the Warrior class. These fighters aren't fueled by rage, but rather discipline and focus for precision strikes.

PotM is not a Warrior. It's a type of ranger.

Celestial Lancer is clearly based on the Dragoon from FF series, as well as the Valkyrie archetype which is often separate and contrasted from typical Warriors. Like Trials of Mana, where Riesz the Valkyrie is a spearfighter using Norse mythology themes, or the Diablo Amazon who used Greek-based pantheon to power her own elemental attacks, much different from the rage filled barbarians.

This goes as far back as the original Gauntlet, where a Valkyrie stood independently alongside the Warrior

We don't need to try and imitate FF. We already got enough influence from that in Dragonflight (the visage forms). I want my western RPG to stay differentiated from eastern RPGs. Just like western animations are different to eastern ones.

"Val'kyr are a type of ascended female vrykul. The original Val'kyr are warriors of the Light created to serve the Prime Designate Odyn by bringing the spirits of the glorious dead to his Halls of Valor."

"Shieldmaidens (or shield-maidens) are female vrykul warriors. Most of them serve the Valkyra and the Valarjar through them, though others are found in the ranks of the Winterskorn clan or the Hyldnir.

Shield-maidens are present in real-life Scandinavian folklore and mythology. The mythical valkyries may have been based on the shieldmaidens, and as such it is not surprising to see the vrykul shieldmaidens mostly as Valkyra.

Though they are created through the techniques Odyn gleamed from Bastion's kyrians, Hyrja's ritual of ascension involves imbuing her with "storm" and "Light"."

"The Valarjar ("warriors of the storm") are an army of ascended vrykul who serve Keeper Odyn in the Halls of Valor. The Valarjar can be given either mighty, golden Stormforged bodies, or become Val'kyr themselves with power over life and death.

According to the Bronzebeard brothers, the Keeper Odyn follows the Light, with the Val'kyr shieldmaidens in his army being referred to as warriors of the Light."

I literally never said that. Get rid of that strawman and try to address my actual arguments, please.

Then, why are you trying to divert any discussion when i mention abilities?

"Again and again", those are simply the use of the generic terms of "warrior" and "hunter". Those terms are not referring to the WoW classes of the same names.

Warriors and Hunters in WoW are based on the real-life, or fantasy, depiction of Warriors and Hunters.

You listed two unique traits about the amazon, yourself:
• Summoning a valkyrie. Something the warrior and hunter classes cannot do.
• Use a bow. Something the warrior and paladin classes cannot do.

That is why i mentioned the Paladin's Guardian of Ancient Kings.
That's why i say Hunter.
You can't have it all. It has aspects of the Warrior, Paladin and Hunter. It will probably ditch the bow aspect, as the HotS incarnation did. It probably aligns more with the Warrior than the Paladin, and that is why i suggested the Valarjar as a prestige class.

The collective of trees is important. Individual trees are not important to the forest. If you remove a single tree from the forest, the forest is still a forest.

But, we still need the trees. You'd rather we not talk about the trees.

Whatever and however many Blizzard wishes to give the amazon if they decide to make the concept a reality.

That's your job right now.

No, it doesn't need to "interact" with the wings. Weapons and shields disappear when stashed on the back, capes are also removed. And even the dracthyr's own special armor clips through those wings like any other normal armor would.

Understand this: Blizzard didn't give the dracthyr race "special transmog" because of "technical limitations". They did it because they wanted to try something new.

This affirms what i was saying. The wings present difficulties and that's why they have to hide so many armor pieces (+it saved them the time to adjust every armor piece to the model). It's like the Tauren\Draenei hooves or Troll feet. It didn't happen because they wanted to try something new. That's a naive thing to say. It happened because it's a shitload of work, so they tried to cut corners and save a lot of time, effort and money in adjusting that many item pieces to the new playable model. They deemed it not worthy enough to put effort into compared to like the amount of customization options it has. It is a new approach to new races (not allied ones). One that might be dangerous, because unlike previous ones, we might see more and more laziness and cutting corners. We might not be getting fully operational new races like the Blood elves, Draenei, Goblin, Worgen and Pandaren of the past. Just like Hero Talents and allied races, which aren't the real deal but a niche little attempt to satisfy customers with a lot less amount of effort. One thing you're right about, the winged animation rig will be of use in the introduction of winged races in the future.

[Triceron]

Where do you see Banshee powers in all of that?

Same place you see Moon worship fitting when you consider PotM to be a type of Ranger.

PotM is not a Warrior. It's a type of ranger.

Worgen human forms are what they should be - Gilneans (or, victorian-esque people). The Dracthyr visage forms are just aberrations. Instead of trying to convey a noble in order to infiltrate or mingle with the mortal races (humans), like Deathwing and Onyxia did, they're just a tribute to a modern group of people. I'm not saying they shouldn't be. I'm saying they were poorly executed.

No, you're arguing that you can't even fathom the possibility, especially for other races. You're not saying it can happen for Naga but you think it would be poorly executed, you're literally telling me it shouldn't happen at all.

1. Warriors are already playable.
2. His Y'shaarj powers have nothing to do with the Warrior.

And yet you can't fathom a different raid boss having no direct connection to a class?

Anyway, you get the drift.

If you can't be clear, no, I don't. You just end up sounding confused and delusional.

The thematic can be musical or technological without the need to invent a radiant song or using titan tech. Either the threat of the expansion have something to do with it, or the land we are going to explore. It's that simple.

There are two arguments here and you're skipping what you're asking.

Is Radiant Song a titanic theme? Yes. Is it defined by a specific cosmic power? No.

Whether you think Bard theme needs it at all is not the question you asked about what titanic power means.

And you refusing to accept it as a connection to TLT's core story and setting is your own hangup. I have no explanation for your ignorance, i'm not your psychiatrist.

----
Your arguments aren't consistent, they're full of erroneous, conflicting definitions. On one hand you'll dismiss Banshee powers to distance a DR from a Ranger, on the other hand you call POTM a type of Ranger. Or you'll ask about defining Titanic Power, but later ignore your own question just to argue that classes don't need the theme. Do you even listen to your own responses as you write them? Are you really that full of bad faith?

I'm calling you out for trolling, since you have no intention of sticking to a topic, only arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Teriz]

Neither is a pet or a random dragonman npc, yet you linked them anyways

Because both were tied to lore. The Pandaren Monk pet included a letter from Chen Stormstout saying that the Monk was a companion on your adventures. The dragonman was a boss in Cataclysm who was created by Netharian, and was an example of black dragons attempting to create artificial dragons. Some of which were humanoid. Years later, we got a draconic humanoid race artificially created by Nelthalrion, another black dragon.

Also, Artificer isn't literally adding Brigitte into the game, so why you fussing?

Retractable Flail, Reactive Shield, Handmade machines, etc. is Bridgette from OW. There's nothing like that in WoW. Again, Artificer from a player perspective would be either the Draenei or the Nightborne variety.

[Triceron]

Because both were tied to lore. The Pandaren Monk pet included a letter from Chen Stormstout saying that the Monk was a companion on your adventures. The dragonman was a boss in Cataclysm w.

To requote your previous statement:

A random NPC isn't a class.

^^^

Retractable Flail, Reactive Shield, Handmade machines, etc. is Bridgette from OW. There's nothing like that in WoW. Again, Artificer from a player perspective would be either the Draenei or the Nightborne variety.

But this survey Artificer class isn't describing a Draenei or Nightborne variety of Artificer. It is a Titan tech related one, which we've never seen before

You think Mimiron can't invent retractable flails or reactive shields? I think that's thematically up his alley.

[Teriz]

To requote your previous statement:

Malarak isn’t a random NPC though. He’s a character that was representative of Netharians experiments.

The Pandaren Monk isn't really a random NPC either, since it came with a letter from Chen Stormstout.

In both cases, we have proof that black dragons can create humanoid dragons and dragons that can use all five dragonflight powers. Dracthyr and Evokers were a combination of those concepts while also being created by a black dragon. So we had prior evidence of this race/class existing long before they actually did. Even in my Dragonborne/Sworn concepts, I said that the Chromatic dragon lore would be utilized for a dragon class, and that turned out to be true because the groundwork had been laid for such a concept for years in advance.

The Pandaren Monk pet simply showed that there are Monks in Pandaria that also happen to wear Brewmaster garb. A few years later we get MoP where we get a Pandaren Monk class where Chen is the template and the Brewmaster hero and its abilities serves as the core of the tank spec.

I would LOVE for a similar example to be shown for the Artificer (or many other classes) described in that class survey.

But this survey Artificer class isn't describing a Draenei or Nightborne variety of Artificer. It is a Titan tech related one, which we've never seen before

You think Mimiron can't invent retractable flails or reactive shields? I think that's thematically up his alley.

We would have seen evidence of this by now, as has been the case for every other class inclusion.

[username993720]

Same place you see Moon worship fitting when you consider PotM to be a type of Ranger.

PotM is not a Warrior. It's a type of ranger.

Yes. An elven ranger. Old Dark Ranger used to fall into that category. That's why i, initially, tried to combine it with the PotM and Sea Witch. But, it has evolved since then. Much like how the Night Warrior is no longer a PotM. That's why i'm striving for a vampire slayer\witch hunter class.

No, you're arguing that you can't even fathom the possibility, especially for other races. You're not saying it can happen for Naga but you think it would be poorly executed, you're literally telling me it shouldn't happen at all.

Since when do Naga or Centaur use visages?
You just want to shove that anime shit into every race concept.

And yet you can't fathom a different raid boss having no direct connection to a class?

I can. We're talking about potential classes, not all classes.

There are two arguments here and you're skipping what you're asking.

Is Radiant Song a titanic theme? Yes. Is it defined by a specific cosmic power? No.

Whether you think Bard theme needs it at all is not the question you asked about what titanic power means.

And you refusing to accept it as a connection to TLT's core story and setting is your own hangup. I have no explanation for your ignorance, i'm not your psychiatrist.

Radiant Song is a Worldsoul thing, not Titanic.

----
Your arguments aren't consistent, they're full of erroneous, conflicting definitions. On one hand you'll dismiss Banshee powers to distance a DR from a Ranger, on the other hand you call POTM a type of Ranger. Or you'll ask about defining Titanic Power, but later ignore your own question just to argue that classes don't need the theme. Do you even listen to your own responses as you write them? Are you really that full of bad faith?

I'm calling you out for trolling, since you have no intention of sticking to a topic, only arguing for the sake of arguing.

Tell me right now if you want to end the discussion. I will not be lured into a trap just for you to summon in the gatekeeper.

[Ielenia]

Then, why are you trying to divert any discussion when i mention abilities?

We were talking about concepts initially. You tried to switch to abilities as if they're what matters the most.

Warriors and Hunters in WoW are based on the real-life, or fantasy, depiction of Warriors and Hunters.

The warrior class and the hunter class in WoW are Blizzard's own interpretations of the concepts within Warcraft lore. And I'll remind you: when even Blizzard themselves use the generic term "warrior", such as when describing the shaman and paladin classes, why should we consider every mention of the word 'warrior' from other games and companies as meaning "the WoW warrior class"?

That is why i mentioned the Paladin's Guardian of Ancient Kings.

Which is irrelevant since paladins do not wield bows.

That's why i say Hunter.

Which is irrelevant since hunters do not summon humanoid spirits.

You can't have it all.

We can "have it all" if I put it all together in a new class, instead of trying to shave it down to near-nothing to shoehorn it into an existing class. This is especially hypocritical out of you consider how much you rage about the Dark Ranger being "reduced to just a hero spec instead of being its own class", but here you are trying to do exactly that to the amazon concept.

But, we still need the trees.

We need the trees, yes. But we don't need one singular tree. A forest does not stop being a forest because one singular tree got removed.

That's your job right now.

Nope. Never was, never will be, since I don't work at Blizzard in class development. And even if I did, I'd be under NDAs to not disclose anything.

This affirms what i was saying. The wings present difficulties

They don't. They don't present any more "difficulties" than present back slot transmogs do, and all races and classes can use them.

It's like the Tauren\Draenei hooves or Troll feet. It didn't happen because they wanted to try something new. That's a naive thing to say. It happened because it's a shitload of work,

I can tell you never once in your life worked with 3D modeling. :/

Dude, the wings would get nothing from the chest armor the character is wearing. They would just literally clip through like draenei, tauren and vulpera tails do. You're literally making a mountain out of a pebble here.

[Triceron]

Yes. An elven ranger. Old Dark Ranger used to fall into that category. That's why i, initially, tried to combine it with the PotM and Sea Witch. But, it has evolved since then. Much like how the Night Warrior is no longer a PotM. That's why i'm striving for a vampire slayer\witch hunter class.

Dark Ranger is also in that category, Banshee theme and all.

Since when do Naga or Centaur use visages?
You just want to shove that anime shit into every race concept.

I have not I mentioned Centaur having Visages, nor do I think they should be playable. We do have examples of illusions being used by Naga though.

Azshara herself appears before Prince Farondis when Farondis tries to save an adventurer captured by the naga and attempts to convince him to kneel before her, but Farondis fights Azshara off. Before leaving, Azshara tells Farondis that her "wrath" is coming.[15] Azshara's naga form is marked as a 'vision' while her night elf form is labeled as the queen herself. What was and was not an illusion is unknown.

I can. We're talking about potential classes, not all classes.

Anything can be discussed as a potential class. Look above at Teriz arguing that the Pandaren Monk Pet became a class. It isn't a precedent that any or all pets or NPCs would be made into classes.

Radiant Song is a Worldsoul thing, not Titanic.

World Souls are Titans, bro

World-soul (sometimes world soul)[1][2] is the name given to the powerful, nascent soul of a titan.

Azeroth
Title - The final titan[1][2]
Gender - Female
Race - Titan

The Radiant Song (sometimes Radiant Vision)[1] is a phenomenon that manifests like a song or visions from "someone calling out from the heart of the world, like a voice from a dream".[2][3] It has been experienced by people all across Azeroth,[4] reporting it as a vision "filled with light and benevolence", "warm", "comforting", "like coming home".[5] It seems to originate from Azeroth's Worldsoul[6] as a warning or a cry for help,[7] which has compelled the heroes of the world to investigate its origins.

Tell me right now if you want to end the discussion. I will not be lured into a trap just for you to summon in the gatekeeper.

You're the one asking questions you have NO INTENTION of discussing in good faith, buddy.

Including circling around what Titanic theme means. I've given you clear definitions and examples, and you're still ignoring the facts. How am I luring you into a trap if this whole circular argument is a product of your ignorance?

We have fucking records of our post history here. You can't play dumb and pretend answering questions you are asking is somehow luring you into a trap.

If you don't want to be proven wrong, stop asking questions that you know will prove your own argument wrong.


Like FFS, YOU are the one asking what Titanic themes mean, despite fully knowing that most of the survey classes have a titanic theme to them. And if you really do believe Radiant Song isn't Titan themed, then you're more oblivious than I gave you credit for.

- - - Updated - - -

Malarak isn’t a random NPC though.

Yes he is. He has zero connections to any playable class. Zero.

We would have seen evidence of this by now, as has been the case for every other class inclusion.

We have though. Artificers exist in WoW.

Titan-themes, retractable Flails and reactive shields are just new unseen features, while the Artificer itself already exists as an archetype. Just like Vengeance Demon Form, Mistweaving and Augmentation are unseen, all new features for existing class identities. These features never existed prior to the class reveals.

[Teriz]

Yes he is. He has zero connections to any playable class. Zero.

A humanoid dragon artificially created by a black dragon has no connection to playable humanoid dragons artificially created by a black dragon?

We have though. Artificers exist in WoW.

Yes, but they don’t resemble Brigette at all.

Titan-themes, retractable Flails and reactive shields are just new unseen features, while the Artificer itself already exists as an archetype. Just like Vengeance Demon Form, Mistweaving and Augmentation are unseen, all new features for existing class identities. These features never existed prior to the class reveals.

All of those examples are expansions of existing core concepts of Metamorphosis, Pandaren Monks, and the power of black and bronze dragons. Again, items we were aware of long before the classes came along.

Where is the basis for the type of artificer described in that survey?

[username993720]

We were talking about concepts initially. You tried to switch to abilities as if they're what matters the most.

Concepts contain abilities. Unless you talk about really raw ones, which isn't the case here.

The warrior class and the hunter class in WoW are Blizzard's own interpretations of the concepts within Warcraft lore. And I'll remind you: when even Blizzard themselves use the generic term "warrior", such as when describing the shaman and paladin classes, why should we consider every mention of the word 'warrior' from other games and companies as meaning "the WoW warrior class"?

Because 1. Blizzard created both of them.
2. In fantasy, they are usually the generic classes every game has.

Which is irrelevant since paladins do not wield bows.

Which is irrelevant since hunters do not summon humanoid spirits.

*facepalm*

You're gonna deflect to a different aspect everytime i bring up similarities?

So, you'd want a mix of hunter, paladin and warrior?

We can "have it all" if I put it all together in a new class, instead of trying to shave it down to near-nothing to shoehorn it into an existing class. This is especially hypocritical out of you consider how much you rage about the Dark Ranger being "reduced to just a hero spec instead of being its own class", but here you are trying to do exactly that to the amazon concept.

Unlike you, i realize some of the Dark Ranger aspects are outdated, like its WC3 abilities. It is no longer a summoner of undead creatures, for example.

We need the trees, yes. But we don't need one singular tree. A forest does not stop being a forest because one singular tree got removed.

To categorize a forest, you need to know what it is made of. If it is either tropical, boreal or mangrove.

Nope. Never was, never will be, since I don't work at Blizzard in class development. And even if I did, I'd be under NDAs to not disclose anything.

If you can't conceptualize it, don't argue for it on the forums.

They don't. They don't present any more "difficulties" than present back slot transmogs do, and all races and classes can use them.

They're more complex than back pieces. They're part of your character skeletal rig. Items aren't.

I can tell you never once in your life worked with 3D modeling. :/

Dude, the wings would get nothing from the chest armor the character is wearing. They would just literally clip through like draenei, tauren and vulpera tails do. You're literally making a mountain out of a pebble here.

No one's talking about chest pieces in particular. There's a reason we didn't get a winged race up until Dragonflight.

Dark Ranger is also in that category, Banshee theme and all.

More like the Nathanos type.
Would you consider the Diablo Demon Hunter a ranger?

I have not I mentioned Centaur having Visages, nor do I think they should be playable. We do have examples of illusions being used by Naga though.

Azshara herself appears before Prince Farondis when Farondis tries to save an adventurer captured by the naga and attempts to convince him to kneel before her, but Farondis fights Azshara off. Before leaving, Azshara tells Farondis that her "wrath" is coming.[15] Azshara's naga form is marked as a 'vision' while her night elf form is labeled as the queen herself. What was and was not an illusion is unknown.

I'm aware of that.
Visages are still not a Naga theme.
Why don't you fancy Centaur?

Anything can be discussed as a potential class. Look above at Teriz arguing that the Pandaren Monk Pet became a class. It isn't a precedent that any or all pets or NPCs would be made into classes.

We didn't have a Monk class, which is a staple of almost every RPG game.

World Souls are Titans, bro

World-soul (sometimes world soul)[1][2] is the name given to the powerful, nascent soul of a titan.

Azeroth
Title - The final titan[1][2]
Gender - Female
Race - Titan

The Radiant Song (sometimes Radiant Vision)[1] is a phenomenon that manifests like a song or visions from "someone calling out from the heart of the world, like a voice from a dream".[2][3] It has been experienced by people all across Azeroth,[4] reporting it as a vision "filled with light and benevolence", "warm", "comforting", "like coming home".[5] It seems to originate from Azeroth's Worldsoul[6] as a warning or a cry for help,[7] which has compelled the heroes of the world to investigate its origins.

Have you completely missed recent lore speculations?
Azeroth being a Titan is probably a Titan propaganda. There's a reason she's imprisoned by titanic facilities. Probably to turn her into a Titan. That's what we're going to find out in The Last Titan.

You're the one asking questions you have NO INTENTION of discussing in good faith, buddy.

Including circling around what Titanic theme means. I've given you clear definitions and examples, and you're still ignoring the facts. How am I luring you into a trap if this whole circular argument is a product of your ignorance?

We have fucking records of our post history here. You can't play dumb and pretend answering questions you are asking is somehow luring you into a trap.

If you don't want to be proven wrong, stop asking questions that you know will prove your own argument wrong.


Like FFS, YOU are the one asking what Titanic themes mean, despite fully knowing that most of the survey classes have a titanic theme to them. And if you really do believe Radiant Song isn't Titan themed, then you're more oblivious than I gave you credit for.

I don't like threats. Calling me a troll or a bad faith arguer to draw in the bouncers is a cowardly way of handling a conversation, in my opinion. If you don't like discussing with me, just stop responding.

[Triceron]

A humanoid dragon artificially created by a black dragon has no connection to playable humanoid dragons artificially created by a black dragon?

You heard me.

Just the way Arthas creating Sylvanas and her Dark Rangers has no direct connection to the Death Knight Class. Sylvanas is an unrelated NPC to the DK class despite a shared origin

Yes, but they don’t resemble Brigette at all.

We've never seen a Titan themed Artificer, they might not resemble Brigitte either.

[Teriz]

You heard me.

Just the way Arthas creating Sylvanas and her Dark Rangers has no direct connection to the Death Knight Class. Sylvanas is an unrelated NPC to the DK class despite a shared origin

Actually it does. The Dark Ranger's connection to the scourge gives it its Necromancy theme. Likely another reason Blizzard didn't turn it into a class.

To the topic; The lore around Black Dragons creating artificial dragons (humanoid and chromatic) was obviously used in the creation of the Dracthyr Evoker.

We've never seen a Titan themed Artificer, they might not resemble Brigitte either.

We have actually;

https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/npc=29...rged-artificer