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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    When did i say they were?
    When you linked frost mages to them.

    Not upgraded, downgraded
    Necromancer - base unit
    Death Knight - Hero unit

    priests are also tied with the spiritual side, when they are not hijacked by human light worshipers
    Yes, but not shadow priests.

    Shadow hunters are, HUNTERS, they fit both survival and MM, i mostly said MM cause some do use bows
    They aren't, really. It's like saying Demon Hunters are. It's mostly in the name. They're more like Witch Doctor\Spiritborn. The RPG sources state that they come from Headhunters, which isn't canon. In WC3, Headhunters would upgrade into Berserkers, not Shadow Hunters. Shadow Hunters share the Witch Doctor's Wards, therefore implying they are the Hero unit of that.

    nah
    Yes.
    They are masters of voodoo and spirit powers, which the Witch Doctor supposedly manipulates.

    Look. Maybe, instead of tying it to specs, tie it to classes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You did, because I originally said Warriors can't just talent swap to become a 2H tank ( like Blood DK) to make a point that different tanks can't just swap their mechanics on the fly and be expected to perform just as well as they do now.

    You decided that 2H meant titans grip + shield for whatever reason.
    Obviously, because the Warrior doesn't drain life to sustain itself. It mostly has its armor to rely on, which the shield is an addition to. If the Warrior had another source of damage reduction, maybe it could have tanked without a shield.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    When you linked frost mages to them.
    No, you said it, i only aid frost mages would be the best nercromancers, not that they are liches, you assumed forst=lich


    Necromancer - base unit
    Death Knight - Hero unit
    Death knights to necromancer is paladin to priest



    Yes, but not shadow priests.
    Horde priests are, again troll priests



    They aren't, really. It's like saying Demon Hunters are. It's mostly in the name.
    But they are, just see vol'jin, a shadow hunters are hunters with magic powers


    Yes.
    They are masters of voodoo and spirit powers, which the Witch Doctor supposedly manipulates.
    but they also attack and hunt with weapons, spear, glaives and bow
    Look. Maybe, instead of tying it to specs, tie it to classes?

    Would not be as diverse and would have very few options, it would be something bliz would go for.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    No, you said it, i only aid frost mages would be the best nercromancers, not that they are liches, you assumed forst=lich
    Then, what is the connection to necromancy?

    Death knights to necromancer is paladin to priest
    Exactly.
    You could see it as an upgrade. After all, they were used to replace the fallen priests in the second war.

    Horde priests are, again troll priests
    I meant there's nothing spiritual about the shadow priest. It's mostly in the Holy\Disc specs. That's why i offer your prestige classes to be class based, instead of spec based.

    But they are, just see vol'jin, a shadow hunters are hunters with magic powers
    Yes, Vol'jin is said to have a bow. But, Shadow Hunters are not Hunters with magical powers. They are voodooists who happen to wield a glaive. Their abilities aren't based around hunting.

    but they also attack and hunt with weapons, spear, glaives and bow
    That's the NPC representation we see in-game because there is no dedicated Shadow Hunter class. So, they use all kinds of class NPCs, just like Witch Doctors are a mash of Priests, Shamans and Warlocks.

    Would not be as diverse and would have very few options, it would be something bliz would go for.
    How many more do you have that involve specific specs?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Then, what is the connection to necromancy?
    Mages in general do necromancy, kelthuzand was a mage. I see frost leaning more with that aspect with frost skills and the elemental becoming an undead of some sort


    Exactly.
    You could see it as an upgrade. After all, they were used to replace the fallen priests in the second war.
    Its not an upgrade, they are different things that do different stuff, there is more to necromancer, and a prestige class would buff the Death knight undead summoning



    I meant there's nothing spiritual about the shadow priest.
    You need to read about then, their rituals and how they become one, is all related to the loa and voodoo as well.

    Yes, Vol'jin is said to have a bow. But, Shadow Hunters are not Hunters with magical powers.
    They are


    How many more do you have that involve specific specs?
    Not enough, like i said, most of it i came up while i was drunk remembering things close to what i remember(Dragon knight, shadow hunter, witch doctor, Necromancer) i would need to sit down, read and work on it

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Mages in general do necromancy, kelthuzand was a mage. I see frost leaning more with that aspect with frost skills and the elemental becoming an undead of some sort
    Yeah, well, because Death Knight has a frost spec.

    Its not an upgrade, they are different things that do different stuff, there is more to necromancer, and a prestige class would buff the Death knight undead summoning
    A Paladin can cast spells and fight in melee. Priests can only cast. The only thing missing from the Paladin is the Void aspect.

    You need to read about then, their rituals and how they become one, is all related to the loa and voodoo as well.
    Yes, but loas aren't only dark. Zandalari Priests and Paladins, for example, draw light from them.

    They are
    Really? Do they tame beasts? Shoot with ranged weapons? Set traps or explosives?

    Not enough, like i said, most of it i came up while i was drunk remembering things close to what i remember(Dragon knight, shadow hunter, witch doctor, Necromancer) i would need to sit down, read and work on it


    Do you get ideas when you're drunk?

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Yeah, well, because Death Knight has a frost spec.
    But they arent tailored to be necromancers like mages in general

    A Paladin can cast spells and fight in melee. Priests can only cast. The only thing missing from the Paladin is the Void aspect.
    still, they are very different, this didn't change that
    Yes, but loas aren't only dark. Zandalari Priests and Paladins, for example, draw light from them.
    He was one of the few exception


    Really? Do they tame beasts? Shoot with ranged weapons? Set traps or explosives?
    Depends on the shadow hunter, the only thing a bit far is explosives, but we have to give in some concessions for it to work, just like hero specs


    Do you get ideas when you're drunk?
    sometimes
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2025-01-05 at 08:39 AM.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    But they arent tailored to be necromancers like mages in general
    Well, in this thread i suggest so as well.

    still, they are very different, this didn't change that
    I'd say they are very similar, in regards to the Holy Light, but okay.

    He was one of the few exception
    Not really, actually. Except for Bwonsamdi and Hir'eek, there aren't many dark loas.

    Depends on the shadow hunter, the only thing a bit far is explosives, but we have to give in some concessions for it to work, just like hero specs
    It doesn't depend on anything. Shadow Hunters are misrepresented in game, just like Witch Doctors. Just because you see existing abilities being attributed to them doesn't mean it's part of their lore. It's like the usage of Warriors and Warlocks for Death Knights before it became a playable class.

    sometimes

    I think there is no much discussion to be have
    I think you are, currently, drunk.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Not really, actually. Except for Bwonsamdi and Hir'eek, there aren't many dark loas.
    Yeah, Hakar doenst exist as well? many loas are "dark"


    It doesn't depend on anything. Shadow Hunters are misrepresented in game, just like Witch Doctors. Just because you see existing abilities being attributed to them doesn't mean it's part of their lore.
    Good chance to establish then now with prestige class


    I think you are, currently, drunk.
    Nah i just missed the quote, can still be dyslexic and not drunk

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yeah, Hakar doenst exist as well? many loas are "dark"
    Forgot him and G'huun. There are many others, though.
    My point is, the Witch Doctor is not only shadowy but spiritual as well.

    Good chance to establish then now with prestige class
    Hell no.
    It deserves a class of it own.
    I won't tolerate another Dark Ranger fiasco.

  10. #130
    You DO understand that you're decades late to "multi-class concept", right?
    And that, as already mentioned in comments, it would be hell to balance.
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Forgot him and G'huun. There are many others, though.
    My point is, the Witch Doctor is not only shadowy but spiritual as well.



    Hell no.
    It deserves a class of it own.
    I won't tolerate another Dark Ranger fiasco.
    no thanks, i dont want witch doctors to be fumbled just so the alliance races can be that as well, i rather that to be a prestige class, at least they can force everyone into troll thematic like they forced everyone with night elf bullshit with sentinel

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    You DO understand that you're decades late to "multi-class concept", right?
    And that, as already mentioned in comments, it would be hell to balance.
    Late? In the Warcraft sense? Because we don't have that yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    no thanks, i dont want witch doctors to be fumbled just so the alliance races can be that as well, i rather that to be a prestige class, at least they can force everyone into troll thematic like they forced everyone with night elf bullshit with sentinel
    That's your issue? Racial lore?
    As i've suggested multiple times, the Alliance representation would be in the form of witches, like Gilnean Harvest Witches or Kul Tiran Thornspeakers.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    That's your issue? Racial lore?
    Yes
    As i've suggested multiple times, the Alliance representation would be in the form of witches, like Gilnean Harvest Witches or Kul Tiran Thornspeakers.
    It would end the same thing, they would never make a class that have different skill effects and names for each faction

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yes


    It would end the same thing, they would never make a class that have different skill effects and names for each faction
    They don't need to.
    They can just make them general.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    They don't need to.
    They can just make them general.
    and it would fuck over witch doctor lore and thematic, no thanks.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    and it would fuck over witch doctor lore and thematic, no thanks.
    No, it wouldn't. You think Trolls are the only Witch Doctors?
    Here's a list of other races:
    Orc
    Ogre
    Vrykul
    Gorloc
    Saberon
    Pygmy
    Lost one
    Human
    Spriggan

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Yes


    It would end the same thing, they would never make a class that have different skill effects and names for each faction
    Technically, they can. They could have every ability in a class be a racial ability; I'm not 100% sure on talent trees, but since Pets had 3 different trees back in the day, I'm guessing the game probably support racial talent trees if they wanted to explore that. However, that would add a huge amount of work, since each balance change would need to be applied to each Race/Class combo. Also, would you rather see patch notes say: Shield Slam does 5% more damage, or would you rather see a list of 12 abilities, all of which do the same thing, each dealing 5% more damage? Plus, how would a Troll Witch Doctor help his Orc Witch Doctor with his build if all the abilities had different names?

    I get what you're saying, and part of me agrees, but I also realize that while it would be much more lore-friendly and immersive, it would also be ridiculously inconvenient and it would increase the workload and simultaneously complicated things tremendously.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    No, it wouldn't. You think Trolls are the only Witch Doctors?
    Here's a list of other races:
    Orc
    Ogre
    Vrykul
    Gorloc
    Saberon
    Pygmy
    Lost one
    Human
    Spriggan
    only one of those you mention is playable, and humans are not even real witch doctors like trolls are

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    Technically, they can. They could have every ability in a class be a racial ability; I'm not 100% sure on talent trees, but since Pets had 3 different trees back in the day, I'm guessing the game probably support racial talent trees if they wanted to explore that. However, that would add a huge amount of work, since each balance change would need to be applied to each Race/Class combo. Also, would you rather see patch notes say: Shield Slam does 5% more damage, or would you rather see a list of 12 abilities, all of which do the same thing, each dealing 5% more damage? Plus, how would a Troll Witch Doctor help his Orc Witch Doctor with his build if all the abilities had different names?

    I get what you're saying, and part of me agrees, but I also realize that while it would be much more lore-friendly and immersive, it would also be ridiculously inconvenient and it would increase the workload and simultaneously complicated things tremendously.
    They 100% can, and it would work great, but they would never do that.

    It doesnt even need to be something big, like a class for each race, for each faction would suffice

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    Technically, they can. They could have every ability in a class be a racial ability; I'm not 100% sure on talent trees, but since Pets had 3 different trees back in the day, I'm guessing the game probably support racial talent trees if they wanted to explore that. However, that would add a huge amount of work, since each balance change would need to be applied to each Race/Class combo. Also, would you rather see patch notes say: Shield Slam does 5% more damage, or would you rather see a list of 12 abilities, all of which do the same thing, each dealing 5% more damage? Plus, how would a Troll Witch Doctor help his Orc Witch Doctor with his build if all the abilities had different names?

    I get what you're saying, and part of me agrees, but I also realize that while it would be much more lore-friendly and immersive, it would also be ridiculously inconvenient and it would increase the workload and simultaneously complicated things tremendously.
    Racial differences are cosmetic, not practical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    only one of those you mention is playable, and humans are not even real witch doctors like trolls are
    Orcs are. The Bleeding Hollow would fit that well. I'd say Gilnean Harvest-Witches and Kul Tiran Drust magic would fit that well, as well. In the end, what's a Witch Doctor? A practicer of witchcraft, used for healing mostly. Since Loa and Wild Gods are synonymous, there's no reason why it wouldn't work for the Alliance as well. Voodoo? Witches use voodoo dolls and hexes just as much as witch doctors.


    They 100% can, and it would work great, but they would never do that.

    It doesnt even need to be something big, like a class for each race, for each faction would suffice
    Bloodlust\Heroism. It's just in the name and animation.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Id say Gilnean Harvest-Witches and Kul Tiran Drust magic would fit that well, as well
    They are druids
    In the end, what's a Witch Doctor?
    A mix of a troll shaman and priest
    there's no reason why it wouldn't work for the Alliance as well.
    There is, it is a troll thematic, it should not be muddled to fit the alliance, that's why a prestige or hero class are better

    Bloodlust\Heroism. It's just in the name and animation.
    Literally the only one, prob because alliance whinning

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