[Concept] Multi-Classes

[Triceron]

Why? it is only different until they do it.

That's the point I'm making - They're not gonna do it, at least not that way

[Syegfryed]

That would be the same shit as giving Witch Doctor to Alliance races.

But they would still play with troll aesthetics, theme and skills

What about them? Or, what about giving them to other races breaks their fantasy? They didn't change one damn thing about them except for changing the cosmetic of totems for other races and giving Heroism instead of Bloodlust.

shaman is so diluted now its not even the horde main trait and religion anymore

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That's the point I'm making - They're not gonna do it, at least not that way

who knows if they dont? doesnt seem impossible to me

[Triceron]

who knows if they dont? doesnt seem impossible to me

Leaked Survey Witch class suggests otherwise. It is the neutral Witchdoctor option they seem to be aiming for. A Witxhdoc Hero talent would then make sense applied to a new Witch class that already has hexes and dark spirit magic

[Syegfryed]

Leaked Survey Witch class suggests otherwise.

There is countless of classes there, just because it is there, doesnt "suggest otherwise"

They can still try to do hero specs again, but for different classes, instead of specs, tis entirely in the realm of possibility

[Triceron]

There is countless of classes there, just because it is there, doesnt "suggest otherwise"

They can still try to do hero specs again, but for different classes, instead of specs, tis entirely in the realm of possibility

When I say the Survey suggests otherwise, I am not talking possibility, I am talking plausibility. Anything is possible. I could say there could be a Star Wars Jedi class added to the game, and no one could prove a negative to deny that possibility. But it would be highly implausible

We have evidence that makes prestige for the exact same concept unlikely to happen. Besides, Hero Talents already function as prestige.

[deviantcultist]

Just add a proper Void class instead of adding one spell to Shadowpriest and having obnoxious Tinker fans calling it "enough".

[username993720]

But they would still play with troll aesthetics, theme and skills

As Alliance races. That's no different than giving Alliance races access to the Witch Doctor.

shaman is so diluted now its not even the horde main trait and religion anymore

And Paladin is not of the Alliance anymore.
How is it diluted? Did the spells change? Gameplay? No. They just added racial lore to other races. That's it. It didn't affect old lore or the class itself in the slightest.

Leaked Survey Witch class suggests otherwise. It is the neutral Witchdoctor option they seem to be aiming for. A Witxhdoc Hero talent would then make sense applied to a new Witch class that already has hexes and dark spirit magic

God, please make that class happen. Even though it's far behind the Tinker and Bard on the survey here, i think it is the coolest option.

Just add a proper Void class instead of adding one spell to Shadowpriest and having obnoxious Tinker fans calling it "enough".

You mean cosmic Void class. We already have the Old God variation of it. Weirdly enough, one didn't appear on the survey. To be honest, cosmic void fits Void elves far more than Old God magic. Do i want it to be a whole new class, though? I don't know. Perhaps, a spec.

[Syegfryed]

When I say the Survey suggests otherwise, I am not talking possibility, I am talking plausibility. Anything is possible. I could say there could be a Star Wars Jedi class added to the game, and no one could prove a negative to deny that possibility. But it would be highly implausible

We have evidence that makes prestige for the exact same concept unlikely to happen. Besides, Hero Talents already function as prestige.

No, not rly, it is plausible still, nothing rly says otherwise, especially when other "classes" became hero specs.

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As Alliance races. That's no different than giving Alliance races access to the Witch Doctor.

It is, because otherwise the skills, visuals, names and effects would be neutered to fit alliance aesthetic

[Triceron]

No, not rly, it is plausible still, nothing rly says otherwise, especially when other "classes" became hero specs.

What is a Hero Spec? Are you talking specs or Hero Talents?

Your idea isn't plausible for the very reason Hero Talents already exist doing the exact same thing you're proposing. Why would they add ANOTHER layer to that to compete with itself?

Like I said, New neutral Witch + Wotchdoctor Hero Talent would be the more plausible approach, not creating a Prestige Class system that effectively does the same thing as Hero Talents.

[username993720]

It is, because otherwise the skills, visuals, names and effects would be neutered to fit alliance aesthetic

Got an example for such a thing happening?

[Elfezen]

Demon Hunter + Mage = Warlock, Warrior + Priest = Paladin, Paladin + Mage = Priest, Rogue + Mage = Monk, Rogue + Warlock = Demon Hunter etc

[reemi]

What I like from WOW is that we have premade Classes.

You want a mage, pick a mage and you play the mage designed by professionals.

I really hate when you have to "built your own classes", it's always crap or you have to copy other players builts-metas

[username993720]

Demon Hunter + Mage = Warlock, Warrior + Priest = Paladin, Paladin + Mage = Priest, Rogue + Mage = Monk, Rogue + Warlock = Demon Hunter etc

How did you get to these conclusions?

What I like from WOW is that we have premade Classes.

You want a mage, pick a mage and you play the mage designed by professionals.

I really hate when you have to "built your own classes", it's always crap or you have to copy other players builts-metas

What, why?
You already have to do that in order be competitive, built or premade.

[Cyclone Jack]

What I like from WOW is that we have premade Classes.

You want a mage, pick a mage and you play the mage designed by professionals.

I really hate when you have to "built your own classes", it's always crap or you have to copy other players builts-metas

Most players are going to hit Icy Veins or WoWHead to get their build in retail currently, so I'm not sure what the difference would be in this case.

However, what "Build Your Own Class" does is allow for fun, interesting, or even hilarious builds for those playing casually. Not everyone Raids or runs M+. For them, creating some weird concoction of a build could become their "end game". Combining Prot Pally with some Earth Shaman to make an earth-based Tank, or DW Warrior with some Hunter to finally get a Rexxar-themed Hunter.

Now, I'll fully admit, there would be some horrendously bad builds out there, but sometimes those horrendously bad builds end up being super fun to play. And if someone is having fun, that's all that matters; who cares if they aren't competitive.

[username993720]

Most players are going to hit Icy Veins or WoWHead to get their build in retail currently, so I'm not sure what the difference would be in this case.

However, what "Build Your Own Class" does is allow for fun, interesting, or even hilarious builds for those playing casually. Not everyone Raids or runs M+. For them, creating some weird concoction of a build could become their "end game". Combining Prot Pally with some Earth Shaman to make an earth-based Tank, or DW Warrior with some Hunter to finally get a Rexxar-themed Hunter.

Now, I'll fully admit, there would be some horrendously bad builds out there, but sometimes those horrendously bad builds end up being super fun to play. And if someone is having fun, that's all that matters; who cares if they aren't competitive.

This game has given competitiveness a priority over all other forms of gameplay. My suggestion is to separate the two communities, so that one doesn't, necessarily, affect the other. Building you own class, like your race, should be a part of an RPG. I feel like we're missing on so many immersive opportunities just because of prioritizing competitiveness.

[Triceron]

This game has given competitiveness a priority over all other forms of gameplay. My suggestion is to separate the two communities, so that one doesn't, necessarily, affect the other. Building you own class, like your race, should be a part of an RPG. I feel like we're missing on so many immersive opportunities just because of prioritizing competitiveness.

That's quite impossible to design for. Players decide for themselves. We could say the game is already divided like thar between players who do progression content (who will minmax) and the casuals who do not (people who only RP or pvp or only do solo content etc)

The only way to not have it affected is if classes became purely cosmetic, and wr know you'd have none of it. As soon as you want different gameplay, people will theorycraft and minmax the shit out of it.

The other alternative is to not have any advantages and make the game so basic that none of the choices matter for progression, only for flavour. Some MMO's I've played have done this, and every class basically 'does the same thing a little bit different', and you only pick for the sake of what weapon or armor you want and where to stand in a large raid. WoW would lose all its unique flavour like that.

Cuz even games like Guild Wars and Diablo have very diverse characters and gameplay and builds, but it's all driven by meta. Your choice impacts performance, while all the RP stuff comes from cosmetics. For a while, D3 couldn't balance melee combat and ranged builds were way more effective, to the point where all end game Crusader builds were only ranged viable. So you have the concept of a badass armored knight wielding a 2-handed sword in one hand, but in practice all you do is send out spinning hammers or armies of charging green horseriders at enemies while never once swinging your weapon.

[username993720]

That's quite impossible to design for. Players decide for themselves. We could say the game is already divided like thar between players who do progression content (who will minmax) and the casuals who do not (people who only RP or pvp or only do solo content etc)

The only way to not have it affected is if classes became purely cosmetic, and wr know you'd have none of it. As soon as you want different gameplay, people will theorycraft and minmax the shit out of it.

The other alternative is to not have any advantages and make the game so basic that none of the choices matter for progression, only for flavour. Some MMO's I've played have done this, and every class basically 'does the same thing a little bit different', and you only pick for the sake of what weapon or armor you want and where to stand in a large raid. WoW would lose all its unique flavour like that.

Cuz even games like Guild Wars and Diablo have very diverse characters and gameplay and builds, but it's all driven by meta. Your choice impacts performance, while all the RP stuff comes from cosmetics. For a while, D3 couldn't balance melee combat and ranged builds were way more effective, to the point where all end game Crusader builds were only ranged viable. So you have the concept of a badass armored knight wielding a 2-handed sword in one hand, but in practice all you do is send out spinning hammers or armies of charging green horseriders at enemies while never once swinging your weapon.

What i mean is they can open max level servers for competitive players, who wish to only engage in endgame PvE and PvP. The rest of the servers can focus on the game world and the story. By doing that, the min\max fanatics wouldn't pressure the casuals, whom they share a server with.

[Triceron]

What i mean is they can open max level servers for competitive players, who wish to only engage in endgame PvE and PvP. The rest of the servers can focus on the game world and the story. By doing that, the min\max fanatics wouldn't pressure the casuals, whom they share a server with.

That only divides the fanbase and makes things even less accessible. What if you are guild mates with people who raid but you personally don't? You've now created incentives for players to leave their casual friends behind to pursue competitive raiding which would only be found on separate servers, you're forcing everyone to make a choice.

I mean, otherwise the options you want already exist. RP servers are the non min max option. They are flexible enough to warrant a lower bar of entry, and with less gatekeeping.

If you don't like RP servers, your idea to segregate competition isn't gonna be any better. Non competitive servers will just be gathering trash players together who can't raid worth shit, and make any type of raiding a terrible experience for everyone. Anyone who remotely tries to get people to perform better on a non-competitive server could get called out for being too competitive, and you're giving power to the players who refuse to improve themselves, rather than have them be urged to improve to progress. Then raiding dies out entirely on non competitive servers, with mid level raiders feeling stuck if competitive servers gatekeep and have high bars of entry, while finding 19+ competent raiders on non-competitive servers would be near impossible.

I can't see this working.

[username993720]

That only divides the fanbase and makes things even less accessible. What if you are guild mates with people who raid but you personally don't? You've now created incentives for players to leave their casual friends behind to pursue competitive raiding which would only be found on separate servers, you're forcing everyone to make a choice.

I mean, otherwise the options you want already exist. RP servers are the non min max option. They are flexible enough to warrant a lower bar of entry, and with less gatekeeping.

If you don't like RP servers, your idea to segregate competition isn't gonna be any better. Non competitive servers will just be gathering trash players together who can't raid worth shit, and make any type of raiding a terrible experience for everyone. Anyone who remotely tries to get people to perform better on a non-competitive server could get called out for being too competitive, and you're giving power to the players who refuse to improve themselves, rather than have them be urged to improve to progress. Then raiding dies out entirely on non competitive servers, with mid level raiders feeling stuck if competitive servers gatekeep and have high bars of entry, while finding 19+ competent raiders on non-competitive servers would be near impossible.

I can't see this working.

It is not to say there wouldn't be any on normal servers. Just that there would be dedicated servers for the ultra fanatics, who don't care about leveling or the story.

[baskev]

feels like a cross between hero talents across different classes.

So you would have a:


class > spec > hero talents > 2nd class+spec

Problem for me is. How do we do this and hero talents. For me hero talents has to little flair. Spelcaster mage or bird mage look so much alike. This could fix it.

But how do we do speccombo with hero talents.

do we replace some or merge them with each other or do we do them both:
examples:

Merge:
like get away from hero talents. But make the 2nd specs the one hero talents.
So priest could chose instead of archon, oracle, voidweaver. lets say:
Priest + hunter: is ranged dps like Tyrande >light hunter?
Priest + paladin: Archon ( make it more a defense/shield type healer. so a disc on steriods)
priest + shaman: Oracle ( a priest that deals with pets ( light elemental) , lightwell etc)
Priest + .......: voidwaver < can not think of class to fit the void theme.
Priest + mage = holy smiter. a dps that does not heal. but only throws out light spells to dps. ( maybe 1 or 2 group support spells).
Priest + druid = hymm master. A healer that deals in hot's. think priest version of resto druid.



both:
Would it be:

first you chose class: paladin
then spec: protection
then 2nd class: priest
then a hero talent from that: vanguard. ( a extra holy paladin).


so to put it into perspective: Class you can chose from it specs > then you chose a 2nd spec from a select group ( because other wise they need 2 build like to many combo's. like 1 balance patch would take ages to make). > then those selected have a hero talent combo?


think the idea is cool. and it would give more flavor to the hero talent system.
But the balance looks like a nightmare.
And it would not fix some classes people want ( like tinkerer).