Why does Blizzard allow full premades on random BGs? Its been years...

[BlackRedGreenofc]

Why did premades become a problem? The game changed in its balancing.
It was about the same time attacking 2 players in open world became difficult, no matter skill representation.

I call it "Big Button Gameplay" whereas you as a player press big button that autoplays the game for you. When this was introduced in Shadowlands, premades became so much more toxic. Continuing into Dragonflight where it became even worse because the "Big Button Gameplay" was enhanced in Dragonflight.

Now in The War Within, which is a less "enhanced" version of Dragonflight, premades feel less toxic than in Dragonflight, but more toxic than in Shadowlands.

And I promise you,
A large precentile of players that think "There are more premades now so that's why" and this is the single level plane they think on, is wrong. Because previous to Shadowlands, in Classic until BFA we as solo players had more kill potential in our characters, from the time where if you didn't fakecast or if you didn't react strongly with a healer class you lost,

Just look at the ability Rapture, it's a 30 second duration immortality button that only gets negated by Dampening, In Legion you had to cast constantly to survive, you had to change school if you got kicked, you had to play well, playing well with a button like Rapture is pressing it, and the time we have to press it is several GCDs, even a very old person can manage to press that button in time.

Consistently playing 2v2 is facing Big Button Gameplay Discipline priests 90% of games, since the game is all about locking down in CC chains to press Big Button Gameplay offensive CD rotations into players that means there's no real pressure it's all scripted,

Which brings me to another point, double DPS needing to do extreme setups with CC chains while autistically outplaying defensively against 1 Big Button Gameplay healers,
Which is so funny because Blizzard nerfed CCs so that players could not just scripted CC chain into wins as easily anymore, but at the same time they made double DPS be all about scripted CC chains, so it's a double nerf if you get it.

Since you NEED synergy with your partner in 2v2, if you play double dps, it demands that both players are participating in delivering consistent CC chains several times in a match most likely definitely the higher rating things go, you can surely manage to 1tap CC chain into a win, but the moment the Big Button Healer starts pressing Rapture in the first 5 seconds of a match it's no longer a 1CCrotationSituation.

But this is about Battlegrounds, since we need EACHOTHER so badly to win, what happens is premades have eachother, you'll have 2 mediocre or better healers, you'll have a 3-4 decent DPS or better, you'll do extremely well as an average gamer if you manage the powerlevel of your group,

Because, most players are terrible at the game, so premades having average+ gamers in it is like being in the top 10% of the playerbase,

So, into my point trying to make people understand what's made premades so toxic, and it's a personal point, it's not a brag, it's a self-referencing story.

When Shadowlands released, my sunny disposition toward Battlegrounds was shattered.
I played all Legion, all BFA, I enjoyed solo queueing battlegrounds so much, and I felt and experienced the potential of my own gameplay and the learning curve was there, it always felt like I had options to improve to play better, to try to get ahead of multiple opponents at the same time,

Ofcourse I'm not superhuman XD I would lose often, but there was this back-of-my-mind feeling that I could overcome odds, and there was always a point to struggle to improve.

And here's real realest point but you won't get it if you skipped my story,
When Shadowlands was released my experience facing premades changed in a week, I remember having fun solo queueing battlegrounds in last week of BFA, and I remember facing the same players that I thought were bad now having insane capabilities just based on their enhanced Big Button buffs Blizzard implremented with Shadowlands, I no longer enjoyed solo queueing battlegrounds from the very first week of Shadowlands, it was not a cultural shift, but a cultural shift that was completely piloted by Blizzard stupid gamedesign decisions that inferiorated everything about WoW combat mechanics,

I enjoy that gearing is more streamlined, it just took them several years to fix the small easily fixable QoL changes but that's Blizzard feels like they don't really sort deep issues with the game and their updates, they just don't care about the product like I do. They care about selling it.

Sure we can be realistic and not believe lessons from the past will ever be learned.
We can assume that the Big Button Gameplay will still exist in it's current form and probably never touch ground with what made Classic > BFA great in it's combat mechanics, and how do Blizzard fix the game then?

It's already fixed, it's what we have now, Solo Shuffle, Solo Blitz, M+, all fragmented minigames within a dead space of a game called WoW 2.0 the Lobby game, where the world is all about collecting cosmetics that are tied to the subbait Trading Post.



Final note, World PVPing, let me try to make this extremely concise
Attacking 1 player feels great, 1v1 feels amazing in TWW, we combo our offensive CD ramp, they defensive, we outplay with defensive/cc, then we win. Like a trading game.

Attacking 2 players feels horrible, experiencing their lack of skill and they still win because, you can't trade CDs with 2 players, you attack 1 player with ur CD rotation, they press defensive, they both offensive CD on you, you HAVE TO press your own defensive, after that you lose because you can't outplay their remaining defensive with your lack of offensive, you can't outlast their offensive because your lack of defensive,

The only time you win 1v2s which is rare and still feels bad, is only because they're literally afk or don't even try,

And this is why premades are so toxic, because solo player power is so nerfed 1vX.
Don't complain this is for you, go play solo blitz or solo shuffle, or epic bgs maybe, just avoid random bgs, it's dead content now in the new combat mechanics of the game, but I promise you, personally, if they ever unfk combat mechanics, I'll stomp on these trash players(that only premade)s lowtier faces and reminisce on how they've been carried by Blizzard awful game design so far, it's undeserved how bad this game is, it's good for subbait it's good for bad players to feel good at the game,

ONLY FOR ONE REASON
Subscription count, because if the game is visceral and real in its skill representation then bad players get deleted out of subscription, that's the game WoW is, it feels bad being dominated by someone stronger, when you feel like you have no chance, so yeah feel good about being stomped and ltierally having no chance, against average scrubby premades that just outplay you on Blizzard intended gameplay plan, (Teamwork).

No, not really.

[wiplala]

Hey all,

Are you also tired of getting stomped by big premade groups in random (epic) bgs, making your PvP experience impossible? Then please sign this petition. I hope to get enough signatures with it to reach out to Blizzard.

change.org/endsyncpremades

[Big Thanks]

Now even random people are doing premades and not just the "usual suspects" >:C
BLIZZARDDDDDD!
From today:

[united]

Wait...what? They are the cheaters...not me and not everyone queueing random Bgs...wtf man

lol idc how annoying it is, playing a premade isn't cheating.

[Big Thanks]

lol idc how annoying it is, playing a premade isn't cheating.

Is a random BG and there is no official way to queue all together...they must be cheating to do it...
If only i knew how...

[Nerovar]

This used to not really be an issue when it happened maybe once or twice every 50 bgs and queues opened up instantaneously but nowadays, since PvP has become so extremely unpopular, the relative share of premade groups you run into has increased by a lot so it sometimes feels like you face them every other game on top of having to wait a long time for bgs to open up. This likely creates a negative feedback loop where people who dabble in casual PvP get scared away which then further exacerbates the issue.

Ultimately, the main issue here is that PvP participation has been all but dead since Legion but that won't change in the short term and probably not in the long term either. In the current state of the game, banning organized premades to arrest the overall decay of WoW's entry level PvP scene seems like a complete no-brainer.

[casecase89]

You're acting like they are in the wrong for playing as a group, but perhaps you are for playing alone ?

Shouldn't you be, instead, advocating for the addition of another type of queue : a solo-queue (which, to me, seems like it goes against the very point of wow pvp, but if that's your cup of tea, good for you) ?

Not everyone can play in a group? If there is an obvious advantage to do so, i think its quite a fair complaint for them to have. Just because its an MMO doesnt mean you have to PVP with people of your own faction. Wow, shockingly, has 2 factions. Rated BGs are for premades. Nubs want to stomp pugs. Its okay that they cant pvp with the big boys.

[Zodiark]

Official excuse: Because forcing premades to only play against each other would drastically increase queue times.

Quiet part out loud: Because PvPers want to feel good about themselves stomping a bunch of random disorganized noobs

I feel like this is it. You nailed it. Also I would just add that enough people aren't complaining about it. If people united (which will never happen I know.) but if they did and then en-masse decide to NOT queue up for BG's anymore then it would probably force Blizzards hand. So in all it's maybe something on the radar sure, but not a big enough blip for Blizz to do anything about it.

- - - Updated - - -

This used to not really be an issue when it happened maybe once or twice every 50 bgs and queues opened up instantaneously but nowadays, since PvP has become so extremely unpopular, the relative share of premade groups you run into has increased by a lot so it sometimes feels like you face them every other game on top of having to wait a long time for bgs to open up. This likely creates a negative feedback loop where people who dabble in casual PvP get scared away which then further exacerbates the issue.

Ultimately, the main issue here is that PvP participation has been all but dead since Legion but that won't change in the short term and probably not in the long term either. In the current state of the game, banning organized premades to arrest the overall decay of WoW's entry level PvP scene seems like a complete no-brainer.

Yeah I agree. It's like imagine going to your local cafe back in the day, and looking for a quick chess match, but every time you sat the other person had someone of Bobby Fischer's skill advising them. It would feel like the deck was stacked against you and then eventually most people wouldn't even bother except those who also had that advantage. Then whenever a random person trying to break in to the chess matches showed up they'd be raked over the coals in no time, so the meta-players could get their jollies.

People who argue that, "Blizz is just allowing people to have fun" are basically promoting organized abuse of the game to bully casual PvP'ers or those who are just looking to break into the scene. That kind of thinking is wrong on many levels and doesn't encourage fun, fair, balanced gameplay and just further alienates those not partaking in the abuse of said system.

If it was me. I would make it so that all stats are normalized in BG's. No twinking of any sort allowed, also maybe utilize AI or some script where it would read the chat logs of players, up-to and including even out of game communications to take into account third party platforms like Discord where players could organize in some way prior to going into the BG. If such communication is detected then those players would be split into seperate BG's. Then maybe it would just be about skill and skill alone and any cooperation would have to be within the actual BG group itself. It would also eliminate those who carry other players.

[Unforgivenn]

Is a random BG and there is no official way to queue all together...they must be cheating to do it...
If only i knew how...

Back in tbc used to have an addon to queue for alterac valley, and almodt everuone had it.

You simple had to open the addon with the av guy that queue, and the party leader hit the button to queu and others addon automatically queue peoples. 90% og the raid usually got in the same bg

Maybe now theres a similar addon

[Cynical Asshole]

Simple. There is nothing they can do about it. It's a 3rd party syncing addon that ensures an entire group joins the same bg. There is nothing to break by Blizzard, nothing to turn off, it's just regular people who use an out-of-game way to join a bg at the same time.

Of course this is cheating because you're not allowed to premade in epic bgs, but the way they do it is completely going around the rules and in such a way that no one can be penalized for it because there is no detection nor record of them cheating.

The only thing they can actually do is to go after the known premade leaders and ban them for exploiting game mechanics, but that requires research and Blizzard actually playing their own game, which we know they don't, they just look at math and mechanics.

[Zardas]

Of course this is cheating because you're not allowed to premade in epic bgs

Why ? What's wrong with playing as a team in a team-game ?

[Cynical Asshole]

Why ? What's wrong with playing as a team in a team-game ?

Ask Blizzard. This has been a thing since vanilla. You can only premade as a group of 5 players max in epic bgs.

Using 3rd party means to premade as a group larger than 5 people is exploiting game mechanics at best, and cheating at worst, and it should be stopped and penalized because it's toxic for the game as it pisses off a lot of people and ruins their game experience, but Blizzard can't do shit about it other than identifying the regular premade leaders and actioning them to set an example for others, but like I said, that would involve them playing their own game, which they don't.

[Zardas]

and it should be stopped and penalized because it's toxic for the game as it pisses off a lot of people and ruins their game experience

Seems to me that the easiest solution would be for people to stop playing a 40-man mode with less than 39 friends.