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  1. #21
    Legendary! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Another day, another association of cheating/exploiting with Gingi.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Another day, another association of cheating/exploiting with Gingi.
    No, see, Max/Trill were the OG cheaters and Gingi just copied a winning strat. They weren't cheating but the NA people definitely were. Just like Liquid definitely cheated in the last RWF by using a Mage talent in the RWF that had worked the way it did throughout the entirety of alpha and beta testing and that they didn't even use to defeat the encounter they were progressing on. (Cheating is cheating, okay? PirateSoftware said Imfiredup is a dipshit, therefore it is no longer up for debate!) Btw, this isn't weird projection or nationalism. Nope. In no way. I can't help it that European gamers are simply better mechanically than their 'murican counterparts.

    Something something double cheeseburger.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2025-01-26 at 07:54 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    No, see, Max/Trill were the OG cheaters and Gingi just copied a winning strat. They weren't cheating but the NA people definitely were. Just like Liquid definitely cheated in the last RWF by using a Mage talent in the RWF that had worked the way it did throughout the entirety of alpha and beta testing and that they didn't even use to defeat the encounter they were progressing on. (Cheating is cheating, okay? PirateSoftware said Imfiredup is a dipshit, therefore it is no longer up for debate!) Btw, this isn't weird projection or nationalism. Nope. In no way. I can't help it that European gamers are simply better mechanically than their 'murican counterparts.

    Something something double cheeseburger.
    Don't make me dig up That Tweet™ again!

    "ROFL look at these losers defending Gingi's cheating when he totally was! And by the way, let me defend Imfiredup who totally wasn't cheating! IT'S SO WEIRD WHEN PEOPLE ARE BIASED AND START PROJECTING, WHICH I WOULD NEVER DO!!!!1111oneoneone"

    The top players will always keep on pushing the boundaries, because if they don't, then their competition will. As they have, since the dawn of time. And the reason is that they'd be stupid not to, given how Blizzard enforces things (or rather, doesn't enforce things). Everyone would do it, when the chips are down; it's just that some people win with it and some don't, and some people get caught sometimes and some don't. EEEO exists because it's the rational response to Blizzard's behavior. And every single person here would do the exact same thing if it meant winning $25,000 no matter how much they protest their moral superiority in the face of not actually being in that situation.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Don't make me dig up That Tweet™ again!

    "ROFL look at these losers defending Gingi's cheating when he totally was! And by the way, let me defend Imfiredup who totally wasn't cheating! IT'S SO WEIRD WHEN PEOPLE ARE BIASED AND START PROJECTING, WHICH I WOULD NEVER DO!!!!1111oneoneone"

    The top players will always keep on pushing the boundaries, because if they don't, then their competition will. As they have, since the dawn of time. And the reason is that they'd be stupid not to, given how Blizzard enforces things (or rather, doesn't enforce things). Everyone would do it, when the chips are down; it's just that some people win with it and some don't, and some people get caught sometimes and some don't. EEEO exists because it's the rational response to Blizzard's behavior. And every single person here would do the exact same thing if it meant winning $25,000 no matter how much they protest their moral superiority in the face of not actually being in that situation.
    Yeah, the tweet where I was not being an asshole to a guy when everybody on the internet was being an asshole to him. Cool. Yeah, way to make it abundantly clear that this isn't about weird nationalist projection.

    Honestly, I'd love to see somebody try to officially call out Blizzard for their inconsistent enforcement of rules but this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's barely worth thinking about. There was no expectation of competitive integrity going into the tournament. It was a marketing ploy to get eyes on WoW at a time when there's a whole lot of not much at all going on with it. Nothing more, nothing less.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Yeah, the tweet where I was not being an asshole to a guy when everybody on the internet was being an asshole to him. Cool. Yeah, way to make it abundantly clear that this isn't about weird nationalist projection.
    Listen, you can publicly suck the dick of your favoritest streamer in the whole wide world all you want. It only gets weird when you then go on to make fun of other people for sucking the dicks of their favorite internet heroes.

    Have some capacity for self-reflection, like come on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Honestly, I'd love to see somebody try to officially call out Blizzard for their inconsistent enforcement of rules but this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's barely worth thinking about. There was no expectation of competitive integrity going into the tournament. It was a marketing ploy to get eyes on WoW at a time when there's a whole lot of not much at all going on with it. Nothing more, nothing less.
    I don't know what you mean by "officially". People have been calling Blizzard out on it for years. They don't care, except in the most egregious cases. Which is why every few months we go through the same spiel, again and again. For literal decades, at this point.

    Blizzard doesn't care because it's probably too much effort to try and have hard lines drawn. Determining and policing them consistently when it really only affects a handful of people in any truly meaningful way is just not worth it. And heck, drama might even be good for PR because it gets eyeballs on the product, as you say.

    But let's not pretend there's some kind of bias or disparity going on here. They all do it. They all will. They all should, rationally speaking. It's purely about details here and there, never about the principle. To try and pretend otherwise is pure hypocrisy, nothing else.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Listen, you can publicly suck the dick of your favoritest streamer in the whole wide world all you want. It only gets weird when you then go on to make fun of other people for sucking the dicks of their favorite internet heroes.

    Have some capacity for self-reflection, like come on.
    Brother, it's not that serious. If it were, I would've deleted the tweet. I was just poking fun at calling what Imfiredup did last RWF an exploit. Just a bit of jovial sarcastic ribbing.

    I don't know what you mean by "officially". People have been calling Blizzard out on it for years. They don't care, except in the most egregious cases. Which is why every few months we go through the same spiel, again and again. For literal decades, at this point.
    I meant by actually involving a third party to investigate the fairness of these competitions.

    Blizzard doesn't care because it's probably too much effort to try and have hard lines drawn. Determining and policing them consistently when it really only affects a handful of people in any truly meaningful way is just not worth it. And heck, drama might even be good for PR because it gets eyeballs on the product, as you say.

    But let's not pretend there's some kind of bias or disparity going on here. They all do it. They all will. They all should, rationally speaking. It's purely about details here and there, never about the principle. To try and pretend otherwise is pure hypocrisy, nothing else.
    I'm not even disagreeing with you on this front. I wish it wasn't this way and I'd probably be making the same jokes even if Max/Trill had won.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I meant by actually involving a third party to investigate the fairness of these competitions.
    Like who? The whole point of this is that Blizzard can do whatever they want. If there was some kind of oversight board we wouldn't have this mess, but that's not something that can feasibly exist. Not to mention almost nobody actually cares about this, in the grand scheme of things. There's like a thousand people on the planet who are bothered by all this, tops. The vast, vast majority of WoW players don't even know this happened.

    That's part of the problem, really. These aren't issues of wide impact.

    Of course it'd be nice if it wasn't happening, but I don't see it ever going away, realistically. Which is why everyone will keep doing it.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Like who?
    I'm reaching here, obviously, but class action legislation brought about the losers of a tournament... maybe? As we move into an increasingly online world, it stands to reason that applicable laws for tournaments held IRL start having their rules transposed onto their internet counterparts. Blizzard's consistently inconsistent rule enforcement makes for a fairly compelling "case-in-point," as they are essentially operating outside the confines of meaningful regulation.

    The whole point of this is that Blizzard can do whatever they want. If there was some kind of oversight board we wouldn't have this mess, but that's not something that can feasibly exist. Not to mention almost nobody actually cares about this, in the grand scheme of things. There's like a thousand people on the planet who are bothered by all this, tops. The vast, vast majority of WoW players don't even know this happened.

    That's part of the problem, really. These aren't issues of wide impact.

    Of course it'd be nice if it wasn't happening, but I don't see it ever going away, realistically. Which is why everyone will keep doing it.
    Right -- I suppose the biggest negative knock-on effect is that when people win these tournaments with cheesy strats, it takes away from the excitement of subsequent tournaments held under the same banner. This can impact viewership, though I'm not sure Blizzard cares when they're effectively getting dozens of named streamers' audiences eyes on their product.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2025-01-26 at 09:31 PM. Reason: accidentally a words

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I'm reaching here, obviously, but class action legislation brought about the losers of a tournament... maybe?
    Unlikely to ever happen. I'm sure they had to sign documents that contained a "we can do whatever we want for whatever reason we like" clause. Even in regulated pro sports it's extremely difficult to sue people for bad calls or whatnot, because part of the rules just say shit do be happening sometimes. And it's not like this was some kind of willful egregiousness. Like, Blizzard didn't step in and declare "actually this team at the bottom of the standings won, because fuck ya'll" or whatever. This was a game feature that's been known for months that Blizzard didn't do anything about. They can easily and very convincingly argue that it's legit, because they are, uh, the arbiters of what's considered legit and what isn't in the first place.

    No shot, legally. Not to mention that suing Blizzard over $25,000 is a laughable endeavor anyway, that's probably half of what a lawyer would ask for as a retainer just to take on the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Right -- I suppose the biggest negative knock-on effect is that when people win these tournaments with cheesy strats, it takes away from the excitement of subsequent tournaments held under the same banner. This can impact viewership, though I'm not sure Blizzard cares when they're effectively getting dozens of named streamers' eyes on their product.
    I think that's more of a theoretical danger than a real one. These are sporadic events nobody really takes seriously. How many people are actually not going to watch the next one because of this? Negligible amounts. And yeah - it's VERY possible that the online drama actually makes more people realize this exists and tune in the next time than it will stop from watching. So a net positive.

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