3rd playable faction

[Triceron]

The best fitting potential 3rd faction I could see is the Scourge under Bolvar. Reformed and united, and open to representing all races.

They have deep history with the Alliance and Horde, but have their own motivations. They have world and political presence. They are neither good nor evil under Bolvar's reign, and now they have room to start a new chapter post Helm of Domination, giving all Scourge room to regain independence.


But it's all too little too late. Faction wars are boring for the specific reason that Factions can not fall, ever. They have plot armor. There is no losing because players are tied to factions. This is why it's pointless to add another faction when the game has shown Alliance can't do shit when Horde loses two Warchiefs and threats to 'end their faction' go empty.

[Cynical Asshole]

For the moment factions have taken a back seat, as it doesn't fit too well with the current narrative, but they're sure to come back to the fore at some point, probably as I said in my post after the saga, if you bothered to read the other sentences after the first one.

LOL. They didn't "fit too well with the current narrative" ever since Shadowlands. So TWW is the 3rd expansion in a row where "it doesn't fit too well with the current narrative", and there aren't any signs that the next expansion will change anything. Let me know when will it do again.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

Even if they design this new third faction without "leveling zones for new characters", there's still the fact that all the leveling experience for all expansions would have to be changed in small ways (but would still add up to a lot of work) to fit this new "emissary system".

[B]But the "lore pretext" needs to fit in, well, the lore, really. On top of that, with this "emissary system" where you play through either the Horde or Alliance leveling quest lines, is it really a "faction" if you don't have a faction story of your own, like the Horde and Alliance have? You'd be --like you said-- effectively just another member of the Horde and Alliance in the storyline.

You're trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't say. You're extrapolating what I've said, and I don't particularly appreciate this kind of gymnastics, which consists of taking bits of sentences and dodging the rest to encourage your interlocutor to engage in pointless debates for 50 pages.

[B]Here's the thing, though: saying "that's up to Blizzard to decide" is a cop-out answer considering the point of this thread is to propose the idea of a third faction and discuss its viability. Because otherwise the entire thread is done and over with that single line: "that is up to Blizzard to decide".

No Ielenia, the purpose of this thread is not to talk about “viability”, talking about “viability” has always been and always will be silly and irrelevant from the player's point of view, because yes, that's the kind of detail that depends on Blizzard and that's a fact.

I share my ideas, I ask for people's opinions, simple as that. You've already given your opinion and I've already said that I won't try to change your mind, I'm not going to start an endless debate and die on this hill.

I've tried to answer you honestly and be clear about my intentions, but I can see that it's simply not reciprocal, so I'll stop here with you. Have a nice day.

There should have been 4 factions from the start of WoW instead of asspulling the night elfs into alliance and undead into the horde but alas.

Factions also should of just been a cosmetic thing that limited what cities you will be welcome in ala Everquest, not something that directly limited your gameplay options.

I've always wondered what WoW would be like with its 4 factions.

I totally agree with you, maybe the factions should have been cosmetic rather than restrictive. Let's see how factions evolve in the future.

So nope, i do not see it happen. Because they can not balance the attention as is.

Yeah it might be a little hard to imagine right now, but I'm sure the factions will come back at some point. No matter what some people say, factions are still a thing and are still very much part of the WoW image.

- - - Updated - - -

But it's all too little too late. Faction wars are boring for the specific reason that Factions can not fall, ever. They have plot armor. There is no losing because players are tied to factions. This is why it's pointless to add another faction when the game has shown Alliance can't do shit when Horde loses two Warchiefs and threats to 'end their faction' go empty.

My point is that there's no need for constant wars. I mean, real wars where we're shooting at each other. Of course there can be, if you try to make sure there's a winner. For example, technically the Alliance won against the Horde by killing King Rastakhan, but the Horde failed to assassinate Gelbin in that battle. Or trying to ensure that everyone loses something.

But cold wars exist, political tensions are a thing too. You could bring the factions back that way.

LOL. They didn't "fit too well with the current narrative" ever since Shadowlands. So TWW is the 3rd expansion in a row where "it doesn't fit too well with the current narrative", and there aren't any signs that the next expansion will change anything. Let me know when will it do again.

I didn't say there was a sign, at the risk of repeating myself I said that the post-saga would be a good opportunity to bring them back in one way or another. We tend to forget about factions, but they still exist, you know. I'd be surprised if Blizzard really wanted to do away with them altogether, but I'm not convinced they will.

[Ielenia]

You're trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't say. You're extrapolating what I've said, and I don't particularly appreciate this kind of gymnastics, which consists of taking bits of sentences and dodging the rest to encourage your interlocutor to engage in pointless debates for 50 pages.

I didn't "put words into your proverbial mouth", though. I took what you wrote at face value. When I mentioned that Blizzard would have to design an entire new leveling experience from level 1 to max, you responded by saying they' just follow the normal adventure (by which I assume means the Alliance/Horde leveling storylines) and that you'd just be treated as a regular member of the Alliance or the Horde:

Or, there's level scaling. Have the races follow a short series of quests in a zone, scenario (like the dracthyr on Forbidden Reach) or not, then they follow the normal adventure.

Not really. It's mostly a lore pretext that allows you to do the old content in a given faction, you'd be treated in-game like a normal member of the Horde or Alliance.

Which makes my question of "is it really a 'faction' if you have no faction story of your own since you have to follow the Horde or Alliance stories?" a valid one. I would at least expect a whole new faction with its own selection of playable races to have its own faction and racial stories, and not just be "tagging along silently" in a different faction's story. The ideas you presented don't make much logical sense from a story perspective.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I didn't "put words into your proverbial mouth", though. I took what you wrote at face value. When I mentioned that Blizzard would have to design an entire new leveling experience from level 1 to max, you responded by saying they' just follow the normal adventure (by which I assume means the Alliance/Horde leveling storylines) and that you'd just be treated as a regular member of the Alliance or the Horde:

... Except you seem to be ignoring everything I said about an expansion on the other side of Azeroth, with its own lands and all. That's the very basis of the third faction idea, since the Arathi Empire is rumored to be there. It's no exaggeration, then, to imagine a starting zone for them on Avaloren or whatever the new continent might be called. Hence what I said about level scaling WITH the chromie time option (-> old content -> horde/alliance).

Which makes my question of "is it really a 'faction' if you have no faction story of your own since you have to follow the Horde or Alliance stories?" a valid one. I would at least expect a whole new faction with its own selection of playable races to have its own faction and racial stories, and not just be "tagging along silently" in a different faction's story. The ideas you presented don't make much logical sense from a story perspective.

The emissary option is just an excuse to let you do the old content, obviously you'd have racial zones and a strong faction story on their own continent.

[Ielenia]

... Except you seem to be ignoring everything I said about an expansion on the other side of Azeroth, with its own lands and all. That's the very basis of the third faction idea, since the Arathi Empire is rumored to be there. It's no exaggeration, then, to imagine a starting zone for them on Avaloren or whatever the new continent might be called. Hence what I said about level scaling WITH the chromie time option (-> old content -> horde/alliance).

I'm not ignoring anything. You, on the other hand, don't seem to be understanding what I'm putting forth. A faction isn't just a group of playable races to choose from. Factions have stories, both of the faction itself, and the races that belong to it. And to add a new faction, I'm assuming Blizzard would have to add at least three separate, independent and unique races, each with their own stories.

I would imagine a new faction would need a "kalimdor" or "eastern kingdoms" of their own in terms of leveling, to tell their story to new characters of that faction.

[Clone]

I'm all for a third, or maybe even a fourth faction. The point of making factions not pointless seem to go over people's heads.

[Triceron]

My point is that there's no need for constant wars. I mean, real wars where we're shooting at each other. Of course there can be, if you try to make sure there's a winner. For example, technically the Alliance won against the Horde by killing King Rastakhan, but the Horde failed to assassinate Gelbin in that battle. Or trying to ensure that everyone loses something.

But cold wars exist, political tensions are a thing too. You could bring the factions back that way.

Cold wars only feel tense if there are tangible stakes.

Sadly, even with the loss of entire cities, the stakes never feel true. They're always going to be perpetual.

One of the things the RTS could do right is write a story where entire POV factions can fall, to make way for new ones rising from its ashes. WoW has no room to pivot like that.

[Enteroctopus Magnificus]

I'm all for a third, or maybe even a fourth faction. The point of making factions not pointless seem to go over people's heads.

Yeah, the more factions we have, the cooler and more fun it would be, I think. It's not like it's impossible for some lore reason or anything, they could really do it if they wanted to.

Cold wars only feel tense if there are tangible stakes.

Sadly, even with the loss of entire cities, the stakes never feel true. They're always going to be perpetual.

One of the things the RTS could do right is write a story where entire POV factions can fall, to make way for new ones rising from its ashes. WoW has no room to pivot like that.

Not only that. What I loved about BfA was the Azerite resource war. That sort of thing.

[kranur]

What would you think of a third playable faction?

They do a piss poor job at handling 2, what would be the benefit of 3?

[Triceron]

Not only that. What I loved about BfA was the Azerite resource war. That sort of thing.

It literally went nowhere and was an excuse to have a conflict with no purposeful outcome.

They literally dropped the Azerite conflict as soon as Sylvanas started twirling her mustache, making the whole conflict over Azerite nothing more than a macguffin.

[Smasha]

I think enabling you to choose your faction as you do with a Pandaran may be the way to go instead.

A 3rd faction would be too difficult to implement (lore and logically) into the game.

As most likely 2 factions would team up etc.

So allowing a Human to side with the horde would make more sense then a third faction.

Another way is think of a world war its always (mostly) 2 sides not 3.

[username993720]

More factions is the way to go if we want more immersion in this game:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...gined-Factions

[baskev]

Yeah it might be a little hard to imagine right now, but I'm sure the factions will come back at some point. No matter what some people say, factions are still a thing and are still very much part of the WoW image.

Think we have a mis understanding here.

Yes i think faction conflict will come back.

I mean that they can not even balance story telling, focus who is the main faction, hero's, being "fair" in what factions get the cool stuff etc. Take alliance allied races per instance. mecha gnomes, void elves and lightforged are lore wise and game wise not a race. but a afflications. Anyone can become mecha, void or lightforged. ( take turralion per example).

So for me faction conflict will happen. But a 3th faction would be stupid. Its mostly scewered towards the horde as is.

[Raysizer]

Some kind of legion/scourge remnants would have made sense in Classic. It would also work as a more almost genuinely bad guy faction

[CaptainV]

Imho the third faction would have worked in legion because of the variant demon races comprising its own faction but at this point in time, no, I think honestly its way too late for it if anything we are moving towards factionless pve and world of peacecraft at an accelerated rate.

While I do think the empire would be a cool RTS faction if they did warcraft 4... I dont think its going to be a joinable faction outside of a rep grind.

[Deneios]

Absolutely pointless at this point where blizz is opening up the player pools to get M+ rosters as big as they can. Rather introduce more interesting playable races or classes than a way to fracture the player pool again.

and for those who long for the world PvP and griefing should just go play classic wow. Flying killed world pvp and it has been dead since wotlk.

[Flame6]

. Flying killed world pvp and it has been dead since wotlk.

Flying killed a ton of stuff, but the community cries murder every time it's withheld.

My least favorite addition to the game.

[Deneios]

Flying killed a ton of stuff, but the community cries murder every time it's withheld.

My least favorite addition to the game.

Yes because map designers make traversing zones a chore with annoying cliffs that you have to travel half of the zone to get up to. Geometry between points of intrest should be simple. Then at the point of intrest you can do creative stuff.

Example Dazzalor was miserable before flying.