In 17 years of WoW...

[conkrete]

Never before have I played a class spec as mind-numbingly boring as MM on the PTR. By the end of the run, I was practically begging for it to be over.

Even WotLK’s iteration of MM—despite lacking all the modern quality-of-life features we now consider essential—felt better than this. Why? Because it was dynamic and fast-paced. We were supposed to feel like Legolas, not a clunky catapult. This version? It’s not even close. I dipped into Classic recently and was shocked at how well Combat, MM, Survival, and even Unholy held up. How is it possible to design a spec worse 17 years later?

I’m not a fan of specs where one misstep leads to severe punishment with little reward. And let’s be real: modern M+ and raiding are chaotic enough as it is. Right now, MM isn’t winning any fans or dropping Enhancement-levels of performance, what do we want out of this classic spec?

I want to play my character and feel like I'm one step away from winning the lottery. This is the exact opposite—as if Blizzard handed me a spreadsheet and said, "Here, calculate your taxes while standing in fire."

In short, it's boring, slow, and it sucks - especially in single target and M+.

• Double or triple the proc rate of surging shots.
• Pair improved streamline with Master Marksman. No talent that drastically reduces the cast of Aimed Shot should be that deep in the tree. What? Do you want to give players the option to go slower than this? Madness.
• Increase Master Marksman's bleed damage
• Improve Auto Shot's swing speed (Hunters were supposed to be Legolas, agile ranged Rogues).
• Lower some abilities' throughput accordingly. However, let the spec be awesome for once.

MM right now has severely suffers from a lack of identity and its fantasy is lacking.

It might be controversial, but aside from the current QoL changes that were added to MM like the eagle, being able to cast Bloodlust without the pet, and the rest of it, I wouldn't change DF's MM. Trueshot felt special. Fast and hard-hitting. The spec just needed a buff. Trueshot should feel like ascendance, impactful not boring.

Speaking of which, how long is this spec going to be terrible for M+? Seriously? We had a couple of good weeks in Shadowlands before Wild Spirits were nerfed. THAT WAS IT. But at the same time Blizzard left Fire Mage and Balance be broken for the entirety of the season. Unreal.

Thank God this class has survival to save the show, because given how mechanically dull, and draining the alternative BM is, I'm sure this class would be dead to me.

And people complained about Outlaw in DF? Sure it was a bit much for some, but at least it was interesting, engaging and kept the player invested every second of it.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Do you feel better now?

[Ereb]

If you don't want a piss easy class maybe don't play the most piss easy class there is?

[NineSpine]

Maybe it was a mistake to make the game about clunky, ridiculous rotations that feel like playing Guitar Hero while reading the console of the USS Enterprise. Maybe it was better for classes to be differentiated by unique abilities and utility. Maybe.

[SL1200]

Hunter went down hill for me when they took away the range survival spec.

[Mojo03]

Says class is too slow, then goes on to say it was better in classic where it was even slower

Then M+ and raids are already too chaotic and at the same time wants hunters to be more chaotic to play. What?

Thought DF MM was good? What?

[NineSpine]

Says class is too slow, then goes on to say it was better in classic where it was even slower

Then M+ and raids are already too chaotic and at the same time wants hunters to be more chaotic to play. What?

Thought DF MM was good? What?

The nice thing about Hunter in Classic, and this is true of a lot of classes, is that it had its own playstyle that was totally different than everything else. You were trying to balance abilities with the auto-attack timer, and timing your movements accordingly. Rogue was the "rotation" class. Not every class is a rotation class.

[KrayZ33]

True peak was sidewinder MM.

Everyone hated it and I feel edgy for loving it, but god damn, I do.

It had high damage, high impact skills and it also relied on proper "timings".

[LordVargK]

Yeah, SL Survival where literally 50-60% of your damage came from a single ability would like to have a word with you.

Also... No, you are not supposed to be ranged rogues. Blizzard (and anyone that cares about game balancing) has no intention of making a mobile range class with utility and high damage. Like... what are your downsides? Rogues at least have to be melee, whereas MM can sometimes even outrange abilities that are meant to hit the whole party.

The only thing dangerous to a MM is a melee healer. Because if you keep out of range, then no sane healer would move away from melee, just to save your incompetent ass.

[CrittenMitten]

Never before have I played a class spec as mind-numbingly boring as MM on the PTR.

Demon Hunter says hello.

[Mojo03]

The nice thing about Hunter in Classic, and this is true of a lot of classes, is that it had its own playstyle that was totally different than everything else. .

I agree with you

I'm not a fan of the homogeneity in retail where dps specs just feel like as long as I play whack a mole correctly I win

In the context of my post I'm just pointing out the guys criticism is at odds with itself

And comes off more like he's just dramatically whining and upset the classes isn't going in the kinda lame direction he wants it to go in than providing any meaningful feedback

[SL1200]

Yeah, SL Survival where literally 50-60% of your damage came from a single ability would like to have a word with you.

Also... No, you are not supposed to be ranged rogues. Blizzard (and anyone that cares about game balancing) has no intention of making a mobile range class with utility and high damage. Like... what are your downsides? Rogues at least have to be melee, whereas MM can sometimes even outrange abilities that are meant to hit the whole party.

The only thing dangerous to a MM is a melee healer. Because if you keep out of range, then no sane healer would move away from melee, just to save your incompetent ass.

I want them to add ranged rogues. Maybe a 2 hand pistol user.

[conkrete]

Says class is too slow, then goes on to say it was better in classic where it was even slower

Then M+ and raids are already too chaotic and at the same time wants hunters to be more chaotic to play. What?

Thought DF MM was good? What?

I said WotLK. You know... Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Kill Shot and Chimera Shot were all instant - Only Steady Shot, its lowest damaging ability, was casted. You could kite ANYTHING.

Tell me how the current iteration plays faster than that? This is what happens when one tries to reply without even understanding the post.

[casecase89]

Says class is too slow, then goes on to say it was better in classic where it was even slower

Then M+ and raids are already too chaotic and at the same time wants hunters to be more chaotic to play. What?

Thought DF MM was good? What?

There ya go, finally someone with some sense. I didn't exactly play hunter in WOTLK... I cannot think of a single spec from even cata that was "fast" compared to rotations now.

[conkrete]

There ya go, finally someone with some sense. I didn't exactly play hunter in WOTLK... I cannot think of a single spec from even cata that was "fast" compared to rotations now.

Cata was the introduction of focus to the hunter class as a whole. Hunter was a completely different spec in Cata. You're comparing apples and oranges. I was every specific when I said WotLK: Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Kill Shot and Chimera Shot were all instant - Only Steady Shot, its lowest damaging ability, was casted.

[prwraith]

Hunter went down hill for me when they took away the range survival spec.

fuckin preach dude. i miss MoP survival=

[Ereb]

Demon Hunter says hello.

Tell me you don't play Demon hunter in past few years without telling me lol

[conkrete]

fuckin preach dude. i miss MoP survival=

Personally, I like the current version of Survival as well. Having both as an option is not an impossibility (Druid has 4 specs too).

[SL1200]

fuckin preach dude. i miss MoP survival=

I think you're right; Mop, especially when we had the double rediness build, was peak hunter.

[Mojo03]

I said WotLK. You know... Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Kill Shot and Chimera Shot were all instant - Only Steady Shot, its lowest damaging ability, was casted. You could kite ANYTHING.

Tell me how the current iteration plays faster than that? This is what happens when one tries to reply without even understanding the post.

You said -

"I dipped into Classic recently and was shocked at how well Combat, MM, Survival, and even Unholy held up. How is it possible to design a spec worse 17 years later?"

Well wrath hasn't been on classic realms in like a year now and people generally refer to the OG version as "classic", though after re-reading it, I could see that you were trying to talk about WOTLK, so maybe you're playing on private servers I guess?

So I'll chalk that up to confusion on my part I guess

To answer your other question -

Well retail has quite a few more procs, buffs to watch, less stuff on GCD, and I want to say more haste (which speeds up GCD)

Overall theres a clear difference in APM and overall cognitive load with retail vs wotlk (in any class)