Race to World first: Liberation of Undermine

[Tech614]

I got bored of the US/EU race years ago

Sure surprises me when you where in here talking about how it was joever for Liquid when Echo killed sprocket first.

You're just as invested as anyone else in this thread, cut the bullshit lmao.

[Relapses]

Sure surprises me when you where in here talking about how it was joever for Liquid when Echo killed sprocket first.

You're just as invested as anyone else in this thread, cut the bullshit lmao.

We're all invested.

(Please do not look at my open tabs.)

[Northern Goblin]

Bro, now I know you are a homer full of shit, this is just so fucking wrong its insane. Not to mention you have like 3 minutes of casters sandwiched between two 5 minute blocks of ads.

And now I know you're a homer on the other side, there are not 5 minute blocks of ads, unless you're failing to use an adblocker. Their content is generally entertaining and they actually have personalities. You might be content with boring as shit and like your casters dull but I like people who go out of their way to entertain.

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Sure surprises me when you where in here talking about how it was joever for Liquid when Echo killed sprocket first.

You're just as invested as anyone else in this thread, cut the bullshit lmao.

Because traditionally any time Echo went ahead before the last boss, they stayed there. Sorry for using past examples as source.

Obviously hindsight is 20-20, but this is some extraordinary straw reaching on your behalf.

[Shiekyerbooty]

Hey homers…

Everyone is saying the next raid is going to be crazy… Ion will have his revenge !

I’m not so sure. This raid screamed incompetence, why do we think they can improve?

[Northern Goblin]

Hey homers…

Everyone is saying the next raid is going to be crazy… Ion will have his revenge !

I’m not so sure. This raid screamed incompetence, why do we think they can improve?

Because we went from Aberrus to Tindral Sageswift, and we know they're capable of pulling a Sepulcher on us.

[Tech614]

Because we went from Aberrus to Tindral Sageswift, and we know they're capable of pulling a Sepulcher on us.

There is no 2nd lego type borrowed power they can use as an excuse for another Sepulcher. It will be closer to NP, which was basically just as hard as Sepulcher just with less bosses and not being tuned for a thing you can't even get until the 4th week of the patch.

Another reason besides the lego excuse you are unlikely to ever see another Sepulcher is they are hard committed to 3 tiers an xpac now. There is no 4th tier to scrap and combine with the 3rd. It was pretty obvious Halondrus and Anduin where originally meant to be second to last and final bosses.

[Relapses]

A bit early for the guillotines, don't ya think?

We've had much worse raids. This raid suffered from poor tuning more than anything else. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as they tend to hit more frequently than they miss.

[Northern Goblin]

There is no 2nd lego type borrowed power they can use as an excuse for another Sepulcher.

Can't say that for certain, it'll be the final tier of this expansion, there's all sorts of convenient gizmos they can pull out of their arse for borrowed power under the guise of "player progression" that immediately isn't worth shit when Midnight comes out.

[Tech614]

The tuning in the raid overall seemed fine outside of 2 exceptions, stix and gallywix. It just happens to be one of those is the final boss so it's the miss people will remember most.

So yea, I fully expect blizzard to overcorrect and give us some 300 pull boss in the middle of the raid once again ala nexus princess.

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Can't say that for certain, it'll be the final tier of this expansion, there's all sorts of convenient gizmos they can pull out of their arse for borrowed power under the guise of "player progression" that immediately isn't worth shit when Midnight comes out.

The only borrowed power they have been giving players since DF is in the .5 patches, not the main ones. It won't be part of the race, whatever it is.

[Northern Goblin]

The tuning in the raid overall seemed fine outside of 2 exceptions, stix and gallywix. It just happens to be one of those is the final boss so it's the miss people will remember most.

I stand by the belief that a bugless Mug'zee would have taken both guilds less than 80 pulls.

Lockenstock and Stix being the best fights in the tier was a huge issue.

[babyback]

3 guilds have cleared the raid and well maybe see the fourth this reset. Not sure when the CN servers reset. After that I doubt we will see many other guilds clear it within the next coming weeks unless there is a nerf to mug'zee.

Since Blizzard doesn't give two shits about the RWF I wouldn't call it a complete failure just yet.

[conkrete]

I stand by the belief that a bugless Mug'zee would have taken both guilds less than 80 pulls.

Lockenstock and Stix being the best fights in the tier was a huge issue.

Both these bosses have joined my top 10 list. Haven't tried Lockenstock in mythic yet, but the heroic version of the fight itself is that good.

[Nymrohd]

I wouldn't say the raid is poor. Granted I am talking from a Heroic perspective but the encounter design is solid with very fun mechanics and while the Undermine portion is not that exciting (since I spend enough time in the zone already), the Gallagio is awesome. At the end of the day that's what most players will remember, not the Race.

The final raid will hopefully have more than 8 bosses so that alone will be an improvement.

[Tissel]

I know this is a probably a futile request, but does anyone have a working link/file of previous whole day RWF streaming Vods of either Echo(previously Method) or Liquid (previously Limit/Complexity Limit). Particularly looking for whole day VODS of the first day of mythic progression. I have been watching old kill videos, but it would be nice to watch/skim through old entire raid days of progression. I am shooting myself in the foot for not downloading old RWF vods, especially ones from BFA and Shadowlands where splits were not as extreme.

[Jastall]

I wouldn't say the raid is poor. Granted I am talking from a Heroic perspective but the encounter design is solid with very fun mechanics and while the Undermine portion is not that exciting (since I spend enough time in the zone already), the Gallagio is awesome. At the end of the day that's what most players will remember, not the Race.

The final raid will hopefully have more than 8 bosses so that alone will be an improvement.

Yeah, thinking the raid is bad because Mythic Gallywix is too easy is a far too narrow view IMO. The fights are definitely better than Palace's, with strong themes and and fun mechanics that make them appropriately chaotic. Mug'zee feels like the only miss to me, the fight is good but I feel like on paper they wanted to encourage something else than just switching the boss when he's at 90% energy. But in practice that's always the best thing to do.

We should have had more time in the Gallagio tho. 3 bosses in Undermine would have been enough.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah, thinking the raid is bad because Mythic Gallywix is too easy is a far too narrow view IMO. The fights are definitely better than Palace's, with strong themes and and fun mechanics that make them appropriately chaotic. Mug'zee feels like the only miss to me, the fight is good but I feel like on paper they wanted to encourage something else than just switching the boss when he's at 90% energy. But in practice that's always the best thing to do.

We should have had more time in the Gallagio tho. 3 bosses in Undermine would have been enough.

Yeah that is my main gripe. Cut two of the outside bosses, add two more casino themed bosses inside. Also I wanted a Gallagio delve.

[Tech614]

I stand by the belief that a bugless Mug'zee would have taken both guilds less than 80 pulls.

Which is pretty in line with 2nd to last bosses across the majority of modern raiding history. Tindral, Silken Courts and Avatars are exceptions.

Also keep in mind if Stix was not overtuned, the guilds would have been on MugZee with week 1 gear, and in that case it's definitely a 100+ pull boss even without bugs. Further pointing out how the real tuning issues of the raid where just Stix and Gallywix.

[Northern Goblin]

Which is pretty in line with 2nd to last bosses across the majority of modern raiding history. Tindral, Silken Courts and Avatars are exceptions.

Also keep in mind if Stix was not overtuned, the guilds would have been on MugZee with week 1 gear, and in that case it's definitely a 100+ pull boss even without bugs. Further pointing out how the real tuning issues of the raid where just Stix and Gallywix.

I dunno about that, you still had Lockenstock and OAB to get through. Mugzee week 1 would be timers and week auras with a kill on reclear.

[Tech614]

I dunno about that, you still had Lockenstock and OAB to get through. Mugzee week 1 would be timers and week auras with a kill on reclear.

They wasted 1.5 entire days on Stix and had a power outage on Sprox and OAB died relatively easy. They are 100% pulling MugZee week 1 if they didn't have to waste so much time and vantus on Stix.

Maybe echo wouldn't be since they completely botched OAB which should have died before their reset, but Liquid is for sure pulling him.

Stix should have been a 20 pull boss given his placement in the raid. It's incredibly silly to not realize a boss that should have died in 2 hours wasting more than a full day of progression completely bottle necked the race.