9070XT Reviews are out

[Spikeychris]

I was looking at the XT, but as far as I can tell it's pretty much just a worse version of the NVIDA card missing the NVIDIA extras such as DLSS4 and their other associated stuff. Pretty much the only thing going for it is price (not that you can get it at MSRP either) and availability (though that's questionable too).

I couldn't see myself buying one, it'd feel like I was settling for an inferior card just because I wanted it now. Would rather wait for the RTX cards to stabilize on closer to MSRP and come into better supply.

The XT is marginally worse than the 5070 Ti (and it's very marginal). I just got mine on Monday as the 9070 XT cost me £570 but my 5078 Ti preorder was £780 (and that was a "cheap" one). The 5070 Ti is not £210 better than the 9070 XT.

[KrayZ33]

"Missing Nvidia features" The only reason nVidia developed DLSS so much is to pair it with Ray-tracing to make it seem like a working product. Ray tracing is still a gimmick. For gaming, the penalty for ray tracing isn't worth it. Using dlss to increase the frame rate via ai hallucinations is just tends to a worse experience; either you can't read text, frames are iffy, makes input latency awkward, etc.

Meh, DLSS can improve even the native picture as could be seen in the new Dragon Age.
Usually, DLSS is an improvement to your experience.

MFG might be different.

[Relapses]

While I agree with what you're saying, there is no reference model.

Ah, good call. I get nVidia-brained talking about GPUs since it's been such a long time since AMD has even had a card worth talking about.

[Biomega]

Meh, DLSS can improve even the native picture as could be seen in the new Dragon Age.
Usually, DLSS is an improvement to your experience.

MFG might be different.

It depends on a lot of factors.

But there's tons of games where for the average, naive rando gamer the pros outweigh the cons. Not every game even has super crisp input in the range where it matters, and even fewer games make it noticeable or relevant even if they do. I totally get that for enthusiasts with trained acuity and technical demands this might be a grating problem, but the vast vast VAST majority of gamers simply are not people like that. Whereas significantly upping the FPS is something that most people will notice positively even if they're on the mid to low-end of the skill/demand curves.

Personally I've never really had experiences where DLSS stood out negatively, but I also don't play things like FPS/shooters or racing games or whatnot that might require me to hammer away at the controls like a squirrel on PCP.

[Twdft]

Situation in Germany:

9070 XT
€ 689 msrp for an imaginary reference model
€ 769-889 AIB models listed at online retailers with no stock available
€ 899-999 AIB models actually purchasable in a brick&mortar store

5070 Ti
€ 879 msrp for the reference model
€ 824-1209 AIB models listed at online retailers with no stock available
€ 1179-1249 AIB models actually purchasable in a brick&mortar store

[KrayZ33]

Situation in Germany:

9070 XT
€ 689 msrp for an imaginary reference model
€ 769-889 AIB models listed at online retailers with no stock available
€ 899-999 AIB models actually purchasable in a brick&mortar store

5070 Ti
€ 879 msrp for the reference model
€ 824-1209 AIB models listed at online retailers with no stock available
€ 1179-1249 AIB models actually purchasable in a brick&mortar store

Does brick&mortar mean a store you physically have to go to?
Other than that, online retailers like Alternate still have 5070 Ti cards for 1050€ etc.

Cyberport is the funiest shit.
You can buy a card and get it delivered for 1070€, but if you want to buy it in their physical STORE location you need to pay 2030€ (like wtf?? 2030€)
Their 9070 XT costs 1000-1050€

[Azerothian Explorer]

Situation in Germany:

9070 XT
€ 689 msrp for an imaginary reference model
€ 769-889 AIB models listed at online retailers with no stock available
€ 899-999 AIB models actually purchasable in a brick&mortar store

5070 Ti
€ 879 msrp for the reference model
€ 824-1209 AIB models listed at online retailers with no stock available
€ 1179-1249 AIB models actually purchasable in a brick&mortar store

What's with the markup? The price for the 9070XT is $599USD, assuming msrp €549 after converting.

[KrayZ33]

What's with the markup? The price for the 9070XT is $599USD, assuming msrp €549 after converting.

Isn't the 599$ without VAT?
Add 20% to that.

We do prices with VAT included here.
And there is almost never a case where the $ price is not 1:1 the € price. Almost no matter where and when, no matter how weak the $ is or how strong the € is.

edit: Well, that might be overstating it.. but its happening often enough.

[Iliena]

Going off the forum posts on a major UK hardware retailer (OCUK), a good number of people have sold their 4090's and bought 9070XT instead and seem quite happy with the cards which run cool and draw a lot less power while gaming.

Used 4090's are currently going for £1600-2000+ on Ebay here in the UK, some sold them to cash in on the insane used prices and others because they want to swap to Linux. The mark up on 9070XT on Ebay isn't as bad, the cards are currently going for £700-£750, which unless AMD can keep supply rolling will go up.

I miss the times when buying a new graphics card didn't feel like getting railed without lube!

[Twdft]

Isn't the 599$ without VAT?
Add 20% to that.

For Germany it should be 22,5% (19% vat and 3,5% tariff) so currently $ 599 is about € 550 add 22,5% to that = € 674 which isn't that far off from € 689 msrp. Actually a bit surprised they didn't do the usual 1:1 conversion and set msrp to € 735.

[JustaWarlock]

The XT is marginally worse than the 5070 Ti (and it's very marginal). I just got mine on Monday as the 9070 XT cost me £570 but my 5078 Ti preorder was £780 (and that was a "cheap" one). The 5070 Ti is not £210 better than the 9070 XT.

Only when you ignore RTX exclusive stuff like DLSS. And DLSS4 is objectively better than FSR4. I agree the only thing going for it really is price (nobody would even consider it over a 5070ti if they were priced the same). Which is why I said I'd rather wait for pricing to stabilise rather than settle.

Going off the forum posts on a major UK hardware retailer (OCUK), a good number of people have sold their 4090's and bought 9070XT instead and seem quite happy with the cards which run cool and draw a lot less power while gaming.

It seems to me it would be crazy town to downgrade yourself from a 4090 to a 9070XT (or a 5070ti).

[Twdft]

If you want to use FSR4 in games that don't support it natively yet check out "OptiScaler".

Not linking to it here since it basically mods your games which can potentially lead to bans in online games. Let's hope AMD updates their drivers just as Nvidia did for DLSS4.

[Iliena]

It seems to me it would be crazy town to downgrade yourself from a 4090 to a 9070XT (or a 5070ti).

I get it and wish I had taken a punt at launch on one at MSRP tbh (and might still if used 4090 prices stay high), getting a Steam Deck a couple of years ago has really changed my perspective on gaming, I've been riding the bleeding edge of PC gaming for 15+ years and with the current prices I want away from it.

Raytracing is cool and all but I've never fired up a game without it and thought this could really do with it! I would rather have real frames than DLSS, I've used it mostly to reduce power draw mostly, going from 400+Watts to 230-270Watts especially during the warmer months is nice, but I can see it's on in most games.

I regretted getting a 4k monitor with how expensive GPU got, so returning to gaming at 1440p is fine by me and I could get a 9070XT, upgrade to a 9800X3D and still have change left from selling my 4090.

[Biomega]

I regretted getting a 4k monitor with how expensive GPU got, so returning to gaming at 1440p is fine by me and I could get a 9070XT, upgrade to a 9800X3D and still have change left from selling my 4090.

I predict 1440/100+ is going to be "the thing" for the time being. Not 1080/60+ and not 4k/60+ either. There's always going to be enthusiasts who want to fall outside, but I'm increasingly feeling like that's the virtual standard people are thinking around, whether they make it explicit or not.

And then the question becomes what GPU can deliver that in the most reliable and most of all cost-effective way, and things like RT or 4k are just going to be luxury addons most people don't REALLY care about.

Which is also why I think DLSS will be more popular than some people give it credit, despite the obvious downsides. People will want 1440p and 100+ fps, and they'll be fine with a little input lag or a visual artifact here and there.

[JustaWarlock]

The thing is, DLSS4 is really *that* good, according to the comparison reviews I've watched. And it's only going to keep getting better. It's still substantially ahead of FSR in most things, and by the time AMD catch up I'm sure DLSS5 will be even better.

[Iliena]

The thing is, DLSS4 is really *that* good, according to the comparison reviews I've watched. And it's only going to keep getting better. It's still substantially ahead of FSR in most things, and by the time AMD catch up I'm sure DLSS5 will be even better.

There is a growing voice that want real frames back, the small increase in raster performance going from 4xxx to 5xxx really pissed off a good number of people.

[Gaidax]

There is a growing voice that want real frames back

Growing minority voice that does not matter whatsoever.

Here's a simple truth - vast majority simply does not give a damn - they just want better performance in their games and frankly, they are right.

Upscaling tech is here to stay, you aren't going to magically wish in huge native performance boosts anymore.

[Biomega]

There is a growing voice that want real frames back, the small increase in raster performance going from 4xxx to 5xxx really pissed off a good number of people.

That's just the internet's amplification effect.

The vast majority of people don't care about most of the downsides and just want more FPS. That's who this system is for, primarily, and by most reports does seem to do that job well.

Of course everyone would rather have raster performance, but that's a one-dimensional demand. It's like saying you want your car to go faster. Cool - but that doesn't just magically happen, it comes with a cost. They could make a card that's full-on raster gains in line with what we've had in the past. It'd probably eat 2,000W and cost $17,000 but they could do it. No one would buy a product like that, though, except for a handful of enthusiasts who don't give a shit about price or power. Regular, average rando users which make up the vast vast VAST bulk of the customer base would feel like it's April Fools.

They're not looking for shortcuts over raster for no reason. They're hitting serious limits. You can't just scale forever and remain economical.

[Iliena]

I agree with you that currently DLSS is great for most gamers, however what happens at the high end tends to trickle down after a generation or 2 to mid tier. I remember the time when a solid 60FPS with v-sync enabled was the goal for every PC gamer, until variable refresh rate monitors got more affordable and trickled down and now the norm for everybody apart from the very causal. So while people like frame generation now in a couple of generations the general sentiment might not be as positive.

In the 5090 thread I spoke about how Nvidia need to do something different in the future to increase performance, as the power increase over the last 2 generations has been insane! But I honestly don't see DLSS with how it is currently being the long term solution either, it feels now is more of a temporary work around to gain extra performance to sell overpriced cards tbh.

Now if they did manage to get rid of the shimmering and artifacts in a generation or 2 that would be a different story!

This is getting off topic for this thread, so I will leave it at that on this subject.

[Gaidax]

I agree with you that currently DLSS is great for most gamers, however what happens at the high end tends to trickle down after a generation or 2 to mid tier. I remember the time when a solid 60FPS with v-sync enabled was the goal for every PC gamer, until variable refresh rate monitors got more affordable and trickled down and now the norm for everybody apart from the very causal. So while people like frame generation now in a couple of generations the general sentiment might not be as positive.

In the 5090 thread I spoke about how Nvidia need to do something different in the future to increase performance, as the power increase over the last 2 generations has been insane! But I honestly don't see DLSS with how it is currently being the long term solution either, it feels now is more of a temporary work around to gain extra performance to sell overpriced cards tbh.

Now if they did manage to get rid of the shimmering and artifacts in a generation or 2 that would be a different story!

This is getting off topic for this thread, so I will leave it at that on this subject.

1. You are confusing DLSS as a whole with Frame Generation.
2. Frame Generation will become progressively better as time goes on, just like core DLSS upscaling did.
3. People don't give a damn, they want a smooth playing game more than some silly crusades over details that do not really matter.

With AMD now being full on board with improving upscaling and frame gen, it is clear as a day that industry is going there and no amount of pouting from a loud minority will change it. Nobody gives a damn about what some sweats discuss in a 5090 thread that is of no interest whatsoever for anyone but tiny minority of enthusiasts - the masses win, not some minority of GPU sommeliers.

Next gen consoles are all but guaranteed to utilize upscaling and maybe Frame Generation too, AND these technologies will get much much better, just like DLSS4 now is at the level where it often is actually better than native, or at the very least at the point where the deficiencies are impreceptible unless actively hunted for by a person who knows exactly what to look for. And FSR4 is 75% of the way to that level too now.