Puzzling Cartel Chips Details Coming in Patch 11.1.5

[Nymrohd]

The only reason dinars make sense these days is very poor trinket tuning and too many BiS items that are very rare (including the literal "Best-in-Slot" 2h weapon)

[Just Passing through]

People want their unearned free handouts.

What about which things in WoW is "unearned"? I invest time, do a task, a quest, an achievement etc - the game gives a reward. It is programmed that way.

[Rageonit]

The only reason dinars make sense these days is very poor trinket tuning and too many BiS items that are very rare (including the literal "Best-in-Slot" 2h weapon)

Maybe it's time to go back to personal loot and add some bad luck protection? Never really understood what was so bad about personal loot, at least you didn't have to roll against 19 people for a trinket that's BiS for 99% of specs.

[Just Passing through]

The only reason dinars make sense these days is very poor trinket tuning and too many BiS items that are very rare (including the literal "Best-in-Slot" 2h weapon)

Not disagreeing, but adding to it: In a way the loot system always has been a reason (and I guess that is why we get all these currencies to eventually buy items where we have no luck - even if it is a generic item with a low ilv)

Can't believe that this week all my boxes with gear had the same trinket twice on my mage...a trinket she also has equeipped and in her bags.

Yeah...she is just an alt and yeah, it is anecdotal evidence...same happened to my GH - looted the Delve chest - 2/8 CH ring, looted the chest from my Delvers Bounty - same ring Hero 1/6 ... and to add insult to injury, both ofc worse than what I have.

Makes you wonder if that loot system isn't fundamentally flawed, when you need currency upon currency to buy stuff that you somehow cannot get (reliantly) in game. But ofc...sometimes the currency is even gated behind luck...

[Nymrohd]

Not disagreeing, but adding to it: In a way the loot system always has been a reason (and I guess that is why we get all these currencies to eventually buy items where we have no luck - even if it is a generic item with a low ilv)

Can't believe that this week all my boxes with gear had the same trinket twice on my mage...a trinket she also has equeipped and in her bags.

Yeah...she is just an alt and yeah, it is anecdotal evidence...same happened to my GH - looted the Delve chest - 2/8 CH ring, looted the chest from my Delvers Bounty - same ring Hero 1/6 ... and to add insult to injury, both ofc worse than what I have.

Makes you wonder if that loot system isn't fundamentally flawed, when you need currency upon currency to buy stuff that you somehow cannot get (reliantly) in game. But ofc...sometimes the currency is even gated behind luck...

And the system to avoid duplicates is already in place because the Vault does not give you duplicate tier set items until you get 4p.

[Glorious Leader]

Earned is crazy. U didn’t do work u played a damn video game.

This notion that the game must reflect a meritocracy is amusing. Particulalry since what constitutes earned is ENTIRELY at the discretion of the developers and not some law of nature.

[Relapses]

This notion that the game must reflect a meritocracy is amusing. Particulalry since what constitutes earned is ENTIRELY at the discretion of the developers and not some law of nature.

...which is why Titanforging was so awesome, right? There were absolutely no downsides to making all gear in the game a giant slot machine, were there?

[Just Passing through]

And the system to avoid duplicates is already in place because the Vault does not give you duplicate tier set items until you get 4p.

Ah, interesting..didn't know that. Vault was generous to give me 2 hero set pieces this week...ofc on one char - so the complaining does not stop

This notion that the game must reflect a meritocracy is amusing. Particulalry since what constitutes earned is ENTIRELY at the discretion of the developers and not some law of nature.

This idea of "earned" (or rather "unearned") brought up in this thread stuck with me - which I hate, when a debate with ppl on a game forum does this. Maybe the guy was looking for the word "deserved" - not that it solves anything.

But yeah - you "earn" in this paticular game pretty much what the developers decide. If you can get something that you want, by doing an activity - in my book, you "earn" it. Do you "deserve" it? That debate could fill pages.

[Ereb]

Earned is crazy. U didn’t do work u played a damn video game.

Kinda shows how out of touch with reality some are haha

[Glorious Leader]

Ah, interesting..didn't know that. Vault was generous to give me 2 hero set pieces this week...ofc on one char - so the complaining does not stop



This idea of "earned" (or rather "unearned") brought up in this thread stuck with me - which I hate, when a debate with ppl on a game forum does this. Maybe the guy was looking for the word "deserved" - not that it solves anything.

But yeah - you "earn" in this paticular game pretty much what the developers decide. If you can get something that you want, by doing an activity - in my book, you "earn" it. Do you "deserve" it? That debate could fill pages.

Its the same thing. Deserved is just as arbitrary. Entirely at the discretion of the developers.

[Alroxas]

why cant they just tell us now?

The baseline reason that I can think of is that most players would probably just drop off to play until they become available. It's literally free power upgrade from the way Blizzard explained how they wanted to just give the dinars to the players (not locked behind a Rep, not locked behind a quest, and given to all players at the same time).

It would probably hurt engagement of other systems that they have rolling out in patch 11.1.5 - let's say that dinars were coming out on May 6th, that might drive engagement down on the Nightfall stuff on April 22nd after the initial interest. Also it might mean that some teams will hold off on pushing Hall of Fame until just after the dinars are released to get that "extra" power gain of BiS gear to push through Mythic Gallywix.

Granted that's all just our speculation - we don't really know why Blizzard is being cagey about it.

- - - Updated - - -

And the system to avoid duplicates is already in place because the Vault does not give you duplicate tier set items until you get 4p.

But what happens in the cases where players want duplicates? Like dual wield Frost DKs, Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, etc.? How would the system know which pieces are ok to have duplicates and which aren't?

[Nymrohd]

But what happens in the cases where players want duplicates? Like dual wield Frost DKs, Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, etc.? How would the system know which pieces are ok to have duplicates and which aren't?

If they are one handed weapons. Like, that is an easy fucking question.

[Just Passing through]

Its the same thing. Deserved is just as arbitrary. Entirely at the discretion of the developers.

Hm...I think "to earn" and "to deserve" are different things. But I am also not willing to have a debate about two words that are not from my native language.

But what happens in the cases where players want duplicates? Like dual wield Frost DKs, Rogues, Enhancement Shamans, etc.? How would the system know which pieces are ok to have duplicates and which aren't?

I swear the game should be able to "know" if you are dual wielding a two-hander as fury and need a second. Currently however it is apparently not programmed or set to know - as a fury warrior, I have set my loot specc to arms, because Vault or chest kept giving me one handers.

What the game ofc doesn't know, is that as a caster, I prefer staffs and not main and off-hand, as they are twice the headache to get and upgrade.

[Relapses]

The baseline reason that I can think of is that most players would probably just drop off to play until they become available. It's literally free power upgrade from the way Blizzard explained how they wanted to just give the dinars to the players (not locked behind a Rep, not locked behind a quest, and given to all players at the same time).

It would probably hurt engagement of other systems that they have rolling out in patch 11.1.5 - let's say that dinars were coming out on May 6th, that might drive engagement down on the Nightfall stuff on April 22nd after the initial interest. Also it might mean that some teams will hold off on pushing Hall of Fame until just after the dinars are released to get that "extra" power gain of BiS gear to push through Mythic Gallywix.

Granted that's all just our speculation - we don't really know why Blizzard is being cagey about it.

I don't think it's that complicated. All this means is that they haven't ironed out the details yet, but they wanted to ensure us they're still coming. It has nothing to do with engagement. The only reason it's even a question is because it was datamined and Blizzard changed directions. Had the original Dinars never been datamined then it's entirely possible we'd be living in a timeline where we just log in one day mid-11.1.5 and Blizzard says, "here's a new Dinar system!" This is just PR because the cart got in front of the horse and since the WoW playerbase is insanely entitled, they didn't want to create (yet) another promised pony incident.

[Alroxas]

If they are one handed weapons. Like, that is an easy fucking question.

Is it though? Don't Fury Warriors want Dual wielded TWO HANDED weapons? Or did we forget about that one exception?

[Tech614]

I don't think it's that complicated. All this means is that they haven't ironed out the details yet, but they wanted to ensure us they're still coming. It has nothing to do with engagement. The only reason it's even a question is because it was datamined and Blizzard changed directions. Had the original Dinars never been datamined then it's entirely possible we'd be living in a timeline where we just log in one day mid-11.1.5 and Blizzard says, "here's a new Dinar system!" This is just PR because the cart got in front of the horse and since the WoW playerbase is insanely entitled, they didn't want to create (yet) another promised pony incident.

I mean the puzzling cartel chips where datamined but people didn't really know they where dinars until blizzard themselves announced what the raid renown rewards where.

The only reason they got pulled off the renown is they got heavy pushback about 17 and 19 weeks being way too long. We're already at 8 weeks so if they keep stalling much longer we're gonna get there anyways rofl.

[Relapses]

I mean the puzzling cartel chips where datamined but people didn't really know they where dinars until blizzard themselves announced what the raid renown rewards where.

The only reason they got pulled off the renown is they got heavy pushback about 17 and 19 weeks being way too long.

I'm not disagreeing with the timeline, I just think that this particular piece of PR is only relevant because they were datamined at such an early stage of development. If I were Blizzard, I'd have just never shared it in the first place (hindsight is 20/20), but this is one of those PB&J situations where the only way out is for them to assure us they're still making the sandwich.

[Tech614]

I'm not disagreeing with the timeline, I just think that this particular piece of PR is only relevant because they were datamined at such an early stage of development. If I were Blizzard, I'd have just never shared it in the first place (hindsight is 20/20), but this one of those PB&J situations where the only way out is for them to assure us they're still making the sandwich.

It was blizzard that announced how to get them.

It was then blizzard that backtracked after pushback 2 weeks before the season launched.

Then they said they're coming in 11.1.5.

They now say oh wait for a week after that and we'll say something about it(the classic announcement of an announcement).

Datamining has nothing to do with this clusterfuck is my only point. This is just blizzard being stupid on their own accord. It shouldn't be some complicated thing to just announce a date and how to acquire them. This is not some complicated feature. We have a date for horrific visions a month away from now which is a far bigger implementation than a dinar and vendor.

[Relapses]

It was blizzard that announced how to get them.

It was then blizzard that backtracked after pushback 2 weeks before the season launched.

Then they said they're coming in 11.1.5.

They now say oh wait for a week after that and we'll say something about it(the classic announcement of an announcement).

Datamining has nothing to do with this clusterfuck is my only point. This is just blizzard being stupid on their own accord. It shouldn't be some complicated thing to just announce a date and how to acquire them. This is not some complicated feature. We have a date for horrific visions a month away from now which is a far bigger implementation than a dinar and vendor.

I should clarify that my thoughts are based on the contents of the interview Max and Dratnos did with Scarizard, the guy pretty much directly responsible for the Dinars showing up on the raid rewards track in the first place. He expressed regret that they had been datamined and also provided the additional context for that was the place in the reward track it would have been was simply too far into the patch to be relevant. My hunch is that they're going to make Dinars some kind of evergreen feature moving forward so that's why they're making sure they've got the ink dried on the concept before revealing it to us. This could have been avoided entirely had the first reward track simply never shown up and we got a Blue post to the effect of, "oh yeah, we want to make raid rewards slightly more deterministic moving forward," and left it at that.

That's all to say that I agree with you that this is a fuck up entirely of Blizzard's own creation; simply with the smallest, tiniest, most miniscule caveat of all time that I believe -- like most minor controversies about anything Blizzard does or doesn't do -- that the whole thing amounts to much adieu about nothing.